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Offlinezamora333
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Help with bulk grow
    #21626433 - 05/02/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I'm an experienced grower and I took a break for about for about two years and just started up again about several months ago. I've been doing bulk grows and keep running into that dirty ass slut Trichoderma. I mean my work area is so clean I do G2G transfers and never had a single jar contaminated as I have two hepa filters running constantly.

      I used damions 50/50 technique and I break the Rye grains soak in water before putting them into the soil. Two out of the three buckets had proper moisture..... but, one was on the wet side I test them. I said fuck it and spawned it anyways into my soil mixture which is (10qt coir 2qt verm and 2qt Worm casting). Now out of the 20 soil mixtures I had made and spawned only three survived and I put them into the GH to fruit. What the fuck am I doing wrong here. Any troubleshooting problems would be helpful.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626485 - 05/02/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I mean my work area is so clean I do G2G transfers and never had a single jar contaminated as I have two hepa filters running constantly.




Are you saying that your not using an SAB or Flowhood? If the answer to that is yes then no wonder. Running a hepa don't mean jack when you are covered in billions of contams. Even the cleanest house has around 250000 contams per cubic meter of air. A messy one has double that.

You wanna step you game up, you gotta step up your procedure. Open air G2G don't cut it.

Also when you say soil, you mean coco coir right? Cause if your using peat, not only is peat a terrible bulk substrate, but it must be properly pasteurized.

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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21626550 - 05/02/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Using a mixture of Coco Coir, Worm Casting and Vermiculite... wait fuck there's peat moss in the Coco coir mixture...... how does that affect a bulk grow negatively? The HEPA works fine for me, I've never had a single grain jar contaminated not one, think you misread. The only thing that I find being contaminated is the mixture I spawn it to but, it peat moss affects a grow negatively as you say then problem solved I'll cut out the peat moss.

I used damions 50/50 pasteurization technique. Which is bring a water to a boil then throw it in the soil mixture in a bucket and leave it there till it cools.


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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626557 - 05/02/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

How can you be so assured the contam isn't in your spawn?


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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626572 - 05/02/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Just cause a jar is white and smells okay when you spawn it does not mean its clean. Is your hepa keeping the 2.3 million contams floating off your arms and the 70000 you exhale with every breath out of your jars? The 100 million in your hair and the 50 million on the cap you put on are not floating into your work? You sure?

Worm castings, peat, straw, coffee, manure all need to be properly pasteurized.

It sounds like you need to stop cutting corners. Also FYI, just cause a tub pushes out a flush or two don't mean it was not contamed. Sometimes the only way you know if a tub was contamed is that the yield is off. You can only know this of course if your working with a culture you are very familiar with.

This tub might look okay to you but to me I know it was contamed. Yield was off. Step up your game.


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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21626611 - 05/02/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Pasty just out of curiosity, what would you consider to be an acceptable contam rate when doing g2g? 5%? Whether it be in a Sab or with a hood


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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Buck513]
    #21626708 - 05/02/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Depends on a lot of things. First would be the vector of the contam. Stuff like verticillium can be a nightmare to deal with regardless of how good your sterile procedure is. Gnats and pests can really cause a problem too. So those things I categorize differently. They are a contam factor but really are not a product of poor sterile procedure in regard to SAB or flowhood work.

Ideally I like to keep contams lower than 5%. I only have an SAB but it should be no different with a hood either. But sometimes you will get something come up and you could loose a lot until you find the vector. But even then it can be really hard to qualify.

For example, most people consider a success to be if they get 2 flushes without mold showing up. But that does not mean that there was 0 contams at work. The 90 min PC cycle for grains that is prescribed does not kill all the bacteria in a spawn jar, it just gives you a window to work in. So already we need to recognize the fact that spawn jars are very rarely 100% clean. I would bet that most people have far dirtier spawn than they think.

I like to look at BE more than anything. If my BE is around 150% over two flushes then I am usually happy. I have one clone that puts out more than that over one flush, but is usually so spent by that point that it often won't make a second. The last time I ran it in a 66 quart mono I pulled 13 oz dry with 5 quarts of spawn. But it triched out before the second. The sub was so spent that it wasn't even white anymore. But I had my expected yield in hand so I consider it a success.

In terms of contams before first flush its more about how you deal with things than anything. Everyone will go through periods of difficulty. For me 2012 and 2013 I had a nearly perfect record, only issue was some verticillium. I never saw trich. But 2014 I moved my grow, and had some other issues with gnats and endospore heavy grain causing grief, my success dropped massively I was down to around 80%. But I figured it all out, and got my procedures dialed back in. I'm currently back to around 95% and improving :smile:

Anyone can rock 100% success, especially on a really small scale. The real test of a cultivator is when some real adversity hits, how do you handle it? Critical thinking, flawless tek, good planning are all key in such a scenario. Also the more you grow, the harder it gets to maintain a really high percentage. Need to really step the game up at that point. I don't run near as much now as I did but when I do a larger grow, I sure plan it out better. Remember a fail is only bad if you learn nothing from it.

Sorry for the long response but that was a loaded question :wink:

Edited by Pastywhyte (05/02/15 04:54 PM)

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Offlineorange771
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21626717 - 05/02/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

The bucket tek says absolutely nothing about worm castings. 1 coco coir brick, 2 quarts vermiculite and a boiling gallon of water, that's it. The worm castings are your problem, beside the fact that the bucket tek isn't completely foolproof.

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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: orange771]
    #21626726 - 05/02/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

The bucket tek is fine, its just not meant for anything but coir and verm. You can simply hydrate coir and use it, its just better to heat it so the myc can break down the lignin better.

People have used the bucket for things like poo and coffee, tho some adjustments need to be made. The bucket needs to be insulated and the water only heated to 165F or so.

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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Buck513]
    #21626734 - 05/02/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I think the problem was to wet of soil I just fruited 25 bulk substrates not a single contamination!! I'll post pictures when they start pinning and pop up.

:dancingshroom::douchewink::dancingshroom:


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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626740 - 05/02/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zamora333 said:
I think the problem was to wet of soil I just fruited 25 bulk substrates not a single contamination!! I'll post pictures when they start pinning and pop up.

:dancingshroom::douchewink::dancingshroom:




You don't even have pins yet and your saying that you have 0 contams. Little premature I think :smirk:

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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626749 - 05/02/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for that explanation guys it's gonna help out a lot I've been out of the game for a few years now and I just hate putting all the working in for nothing. Should I just ditch the worm casting completely I'm gonna use the bucket technique. I've heard it boosts performance and yield or is this not true?


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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626752 - 05/02/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Hahaha very true pray for these little mushies haha, if I get one solid flush I'll be happy.


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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21626761 - 05/02/15 05:02 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

If your gonna use the bucket, then just keep it coir and verm. I like worm castings but they need to be properly pasteurized. They do make for a nice healthy looking sub IMO.

However if you continue to have problems ya better get your G2G dialed in. I have seen dozens of people argue the point over the years, yet it always bites em in the ass eventually. Open an agar plate in your clean hepa filtered room for 1 second. That will open your eyes.

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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21626777 - 05/02/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Haha damn, yeah I haven't started working with agar yet man just been using the best performing jars I've with pretty looking Rhyzos, I used G2G on about two dozen jars and they ate the fuck out of the rye it's been only a week and they're 75% colonized. I'm gonna take your advice and test out one bulk run with those jars to see if they get any contams or if any or present.

I've heard of people throwing substrate in oven bags and throwing them in the oven at 175 degrees for 3 hours would that be an ok way to pasteurize sub?

thanks for the advice again man will really help me get this shit dialed in


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All said and done are not my words, all pictures are fictional, all questions are rhetorical. In fact this is an optical illusion.

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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21627105 - 05/02/15 06:39 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Sorry for the long response but that was a loaded question :wink:




Oh no, I don't mind at all. That's the reason I hang around shroomery, because people around here for the most part share my enthusiasm about mushrooms. You people are the only ones I can have nerd convos with:shrug:


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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Buck513]
    #21629811 - 05/03/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

^^ just seeing if someone will answer pasteurization question


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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21630015 - 05/03/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I pasteurize in jars. Long as the centre is between 140-160 for an hour its good.

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Offlinezamora333
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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21631585 - 05/03/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

word I'm gonna try the oven for 2.5 hours at 175 in turkey oven bags.

Pasty just wondering what's your sub recipe??

I'm using 2qt Verm 2qt casting 10qt coir, think that's a solid performing sub mix?


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Re: Help with bulk grow [Re: zamora333]
    #21631664 - 05/03/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I use what I have around. Coir verm is a standard but I also rock more complex subs with straw, worm castings gypsum and hpoo in the mix. Now that its back in season I will probably pick up some cow manure soon. Also gonna try some stuff with grass clippings. I even have a couple rez tek tubs going right now. I mess with everything.

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