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xpl0de
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Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court
#21159497 - 01/21/15 07:35 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/silk-road-trial-fbi-reveals-whats-on-ross-ulbrichts-computer-in-open-court/
Quote:
Protestors came out when the Silk Road trial began, but left after the first day.
NEW YORK — Shortly after he got on the stand, prosecutors handed FBI agent Tom Kiernan an item called Government's Exhibit 200. It was a Samsung 700z laptop wrapped in thick plastic wrap. Kiernan removed it, not without some difficulty, and inspected it.
Yes, Kiernan told prosecutor Timothy Howard, this was the computer he and two other federal agents had taken from Ross Ulbricht in October 2013. It was a prize so important they literally snatched it out from underneath him, before they even arrested Ulbricht.
On that day, a male and female agent started an argument in San Francisco's Glen Park public library, to get Ulbricht's attention. As soon as Ulbricht was distracted, another agent grabbed the open computer and gave it to Kiernan, who is an FBI computer specialist. Kiernan spent the next three hours doing "triage" on the machine. Without allowing it to go idle, and thus become encrypted, he took photographs, went through the browser history, and ultimately handed it off to another agent who imaged the hard drive.
Today, with Kiernan on the stand offering confirmation, Howard walked the jury through the enormous amount of data pulled from Ulbricht's computer. Defense lawyers haven't had a chance yet to respond to this evidence—that will likely come tomorrow. The mountain they have to climb looks higher than ever, though. Last week, Ulbricht's lawyer outlined a defense in which Ulbricht walked away from the marketplace he created and was "lured back." But what will explain the dozens of folders of data on this laptop, with data from the upper echelons of Silk Road management—mixed with the most intimate details of Ulbricht's personal life?
The jury saw spreadsheets of Silk Road finances, Ulbricht's personal tracking of his "net worth," and got just a small glimpse of the years of TorChat chat logs with Silk Road administrators that were on the machine. In those chats, "myself"—the default name for a user of TorChat—made key executive decisions about how to run Silk Road.
There were many decisions that had to be made: promotions and demotions, contests and castigations. The jury saw Silk Road org charts, payroll documents, and daily logs tracking staff activities. They saw Ulbricht's old passport and driver's license, and the scanned IDs of Silk Road admins. Staffers had been promised those IDs would be kept encrypted, and they were—but the encryption was broken down by Kiernan, who found the keys on Ulbricht's machine.
The computer also contained what appears to be Ulbricht's personal journal. It goes back to 2010, in which Ulbricht describes his early plans to create Silk Road and seed it by growing psychedelic mushrooms, and selling them for cheap. He describes his personal goals and his days spent working, surfing, or drinking with friends. He also describes lies told to friends, and the pain it brought.
That diary was read into the public record today.
"I went out with Jessica," said Howard, reading Ulbricht's diary into the public record in a rote monotone. "Our conversation was somewhat deep. I felt compelled to reveal myself to her... It was terrible. I told her I have secrets." I've been incredibly blessed
In a folder labeled "TorChat," Ulbricht's computer holds years' worth of chat logs. The TorChat program that creates logs describing the primary user as "myself." Ulbricht says he wasn't the Dread Pirate Roberts, the identity who ran the Silk Road drug marketplace. But whoever was "myself" on his computer's chat logs did admit—boasted, even—that he ran the show.
The first chat shown to the jury was from April of 2012:
sSh: greetings
myself: hi there
myself: what's up?
sSh: may i ask to whom i'm speaking? a formality of course
myself: DPR, and you are?
sSh: this is squid
myself: why do you keep changing identities?
sSh: i've figured it out so that this will be my permanent ID.
myself: sounds good. what have you been up to?
Ulbricht's 2011 journal entry described Digital Alchemy as the one he hired to be a "right hand man."
In a January 2012 chat, "myself" told Digital Alchemy, a Silk Road staffer, that he'd be taking on an important new responsibility—handling vendors who don't follow the rules.
"are you ready to become judge jury and executioner?" messaged DPR (writing as "myself," the term used in all these chat logs).
"yep " wrote back a user named DigitalAlch.
Later, DPR told Digital Alchemy he'd have to change his name, since there was too much Silk Road forum activity under his current name.
"damn," responded DigitalAlch. "I really liked the DA moniker. but oh well. freedom is better than prison."
"yep," wrote DPR. "i gotta protect my assets."
There are nearly 1,100 pages of chat logs with "vj," apparently Variety Jones, who Ulbricht identifies as his mentor. Page 312 of that log reads in part:
myself: this whole thing has been on a wing and a prayer. besides basic php and html, i've learned everything on the fly.
vj: just thank fsm
myself: fsm?
vj: $deity
myself: ahhh
myself: i've been incredibly blessed. i was a hair's breadth from going to jail before the site even launched.
Later, Variety Jones changed his identity to cimon. "Variety Jones is dead," he wrote in a chat to DPR. "Poor fella. No more seed biz for him." On Oct. 24, 2012, "myself" asked cimon for suggestions about recruiting:
myself: right now i'm spending an hour a day on resolutions and inigo (new guy) is dealing w/ messages
myself: i might try recruiting at bitcointalk.org
cimon: dude, really?
myself: well, working for a criminal enterprise isn't exactly enticing
The "myself" identity meted out punishment, too. He told cimon that between one and three vendors got "demoted" each week. The most common offenses were faking feedback, going outside of the Silk Road escrow system, or selling fake product.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: xpl0de]
#21159550 - 01/21/15 07:53 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pretty damning circumstantial evidence to the average juror... Such a unique case
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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ImmortalZodd
I seek only the strong
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21159579 - 01/21/15 07:59 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Kinda fucked up they read his personal diary to everybody. That sucks... I'm glad I don't keep one.
--------------------
...the illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world. Carl Sagan
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ImmortalZodd]
#21159684 - 01/21/15 08:21 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah the FBI giving him a little extra fuck you on top of everything else.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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xpl0de
ḆËŦŦЯ_őƑ_Ŧwo ƹvïlz
Registered: 07/14/07
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21159716 - 01/21/15 08:28 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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This dude is going to get nailed to the wall.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student
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Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: xpl0de]
#21159767 - 01/21/15 08:40 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Poor bastard. I can't imagine the defense is gonna be able to do much to counter that.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Distorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: xpl0de]
#21159800 - 01/21/15 08:49 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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He left way too many trails. To live as the kingpin, you must learn to trust no one and to have nothing that ties you to the crime (Atleast not in your fucking home.)
-------------------- "Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Posts: 29,591
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Distorted Vision]
#21159938 - 01/21/15 09:30 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Distorted Vision said: He left way too many trails. To live as the kingpin, you must learn to trust no one and to have nothing that ties you to the crime (Atleast not in your fucking home.)
You can't run SR all by yourself...
The stuff he says about freedom being better then prison and running a criminal enterprise FUCKED him. I could hear the atta boys and high fives back at the bureau just reading it.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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Distorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21160091 - 01/21/15 10:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, that is true. But to keep a diary. To keep old logs of conversations. To do anything but to burn everything right after it is used, is suicide.
-------------------- "Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
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Posts: 2,717
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21160122 - 01/21/15 10:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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ETA: Damnit I was about to say that!
Ouch, keeping chat logs, bad move. It's like a wiretap back into time, why worry about the DEA/FBI listening in on your calls when you record all of them for them. It seemed like he relied too heavily on encryption over basic smarts, both on his computer and in building his network.
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chechehm
Stranger
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: StygianKnight]
#21160166 - 01/21/15 10:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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why this thing is still called PC personal computer?
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LSDylan
bass music enjoyer
Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 4,992
Loc: Michigan
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: StygianKnight]
#21160168 - 01/21/15 10:35 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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The question I have is... If there are all of these chat logs and evidence on his computer, and he knows they are there, and he knows the government has his computer... Why go with the defense strategy of "I started SR then I left shortly after." If that defense can be so easily disproved by your own computer, why not think of something better?
Anyways, this whole trial is fucked. The judge and prosecutor are working together (as they always do.)
-------------------- DanceSafe | Voluntaryism
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rawrrawr
Stranger
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: LSDylan]
#21160295 - 01/21/15 11:13 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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In high stakes battles with the law, it is often best to learn exactly what your enemy knows about you. The initial defense may have been a ploy to get the govt to show their hand. Either way, Ulbricht never had much of a chance anyway... Considering that the govt gets to make the rules of the game and *clearly* will not take a loss under any circumstances.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: rawrrawr]
#21160401 - 01/21/15 11:58 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah currently their defense appears to be "force the government to prove everything." Their defense is meant to try and put some doubt in the minds of the jury that the government hasn't fully proven their case, since the defense doesn't have to show Ulbrich innocent, just that the government's case isn't good enough.
Hopefully this is all a wake up call to the darknet world. Anyone involved in the darknet should be studying this case and thanking Ulbrich's attorney for forcing the government to show their hand.
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trampis
mad hatter
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3,545
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: StygianKnight] 1
#21161072 - 01/22/15 04:19 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Shoulda done that Breaking Bad shit...
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PsYcHoDoUgHbOy
Connoisseur
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: trampis] 1
#21161857 - 01/22/15 10:00 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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YEAH BITCH! MAGNETS! OH!
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trampis
mad hatter
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3,545
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: PsYcHoDoUgHbOy] 1
#21163680 - 01/22/15 04:01 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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afrogus
hombre
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: trampis]
#21164668 - 01/22/15 08:06 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is an open and close slam dunk case for big brother, unfortunately. Homeboy is looking at a minimum of 20 years, but probably more like thirty. Sad, but the dude is a fucking dumbass
-------------------- "Leave no turn unstoned":)
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D.M.T
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: afrogus]
#21165427 - 01/22/15 10:47 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Let's not forget the multiple murder charges from another federal district. I guess after this trial is all said and done there will be that one. If found guilty on all this I'm thinking he might not see freedom for a long long time, if ever.
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Distorted Vision
The best. Of the worst.
Registered: 07/30/09
Posts: 4,292
Loc: Indiana
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: D.M.T]
#21166017 - 01/23/15 04:27 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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He's essentially one of the biggest drug dealers in history if not the biggest. He's fucked.
-------------------- "Yo yo just here to spread my clit and show ya'll what a wonderful and free being we are all inside lets take the acid and turn inside into the outside come on over baby lets smell the roses ohh ohh come on we're about to get lit show my undies to your baby I'll hug it down three times go around frown come on we aint a nice clown kiss me upside down down down come on sorry if you cant handle my wokeness come on lets take her panties off write shroomery on my asshole and taste it lick it make if feel like we was 1978 come on baby lets do the locamotion"-Twig dude
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psyke101
Test Subject
Registered: 04/30/11
Posts: 748
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: xpl0de]
#21166067 - 01/23/15 05:13 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
xpl0de said: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/silk-road-trial-fbi-reveals-whats-on-ross-ulbrichts-computer-in-open-court/
Quote:
There are nearly 1,100 pages of chat logs with "vj," apparently Variety Jones, who Ulbricht identifies as his mentor.
Interested to know who this VJ character is. The Feds didnt get that person?
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roquet
Expat tippler
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Posts: 1,195
Loc: Dubai بجدية عربي...
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Distorted Vision]
#21166147 - 01/23/15 06:11 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Distorted Vision said: He's essentially one of the biggest drug dealers in history if not the biggest. He's fucked.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be he's like the Piratebay guys; they made a website which gave links to people who want to torrent copyrighted media. But they didn't host the material themselves. And Ulbricht never had drugs in his possession either. But he did take a cut from each sale, which is different to Piratebay where the site was free and they site owners made money from ads. Still, those guys did get off pretty much scott free after being accused by the US of being the biggest copyright piraters in history.
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Kman1898
Dr. Learn'd
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: roquet]
#21166223 - 01/23/15 06:53 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
roquet said:
Quote:
Distorted Vision said: He's essentially one of the biggest drug dealers in history if not the biggest. He's fucked.
That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be he's like the Piratebay guys; they made a website which gave links to people who want to torrent copyrighted media. But they didn't host the material themselves. And Ulbricht never had drugs in his possession either. But he did take a cut from each sale, which is different to Piratebay where the site was free and they site owners made money from ads. Still, those guys did get off pretty much scott free after being accused by the US of being the biggest copyright piraters in history.
This isn't exactly true. Ross grew 11 kilos of shrooms to be his first item on the site. So yes he was a dealer.
Plus since he's being charged with continuing a criminal enterprise/kingpin statuate means if he attempted to keep his entereprise going by murder in any form then he'll get the death penalty.
-------------------- Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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D.M.T
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Kman1898]
#21166864 - 01/23/15 10:30 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kman1898 said: Plus since he's being charged with continuing a criminal enterprise/kingpin statuate means if he attempted to keep his entereprise going by murder in any form then he'll get the death penalty.
20 to life in prison is what he's looking at for this, but yes, this pretty much.
The fact he took commission for every payment makes him eligible for the Kingpin Statute. That's a mandatory 20 years convicted on this charge alone. Then couple that with laundering billions of dollars... I hate to be a pessimist but.. the dice doesn't look to be rolling in Ross' favor right now.
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Kman1898
Dr. Learn'd
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: D.M.T]
#21167382 - 01/23/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Kman1898 said: Plus since he's being charged with continuing a criminal enterprise/kingpin statuate means if he attempted to keep his entereprise going by murder in any form then he'll get the death penalty.
20 to life in prison is what he's looking at for this, but yes, this pretty much.
The fact he took commission for every payment makes him eligible for the Kingpin Statute. That's a mandatory 20 years convicted on this charge alone. Then couple that with laundering billions of dollars... I hate to be a pessimist but.. the dice doesn't look to be rolling in Ross' favor right now.
If he truly wrote that journal, and it's looking more and more like he did, he seems to have some psychological problems. After reading the journal, I think he fully intended on being arrested and being a counterculture hero. In his journal the abstract way he refers to his feelings and relationships is really weird to me; almost like he's outside of himself and observing. In my opinion Ross had a anti-hero complex. He just got arrested before he could secure it.
Loads of evidence chat logs documents and evidence
-------------------- Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,651
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Kman1898]
#21185875 - 01/27/15 10:58 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is illegally obtained evidence. Case should be thrown out.
--------------------
Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21185885 - 01/27/15 11:00 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElVatoFirme said: That is illegally obtained evidence. Case should be thrown out.
How is it illegally obtained evidence?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,651
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21185912 - 01/27/15 11:06 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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They stole his computer. Need a warrant for that. Digital forensics 101.
--------------------
Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21186050 - 01/27/15 11:31 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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They had a warrant for his computer in their hand right when they took it.
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,651
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: D.M.T]
#21186128 - 01/27/15 11:49 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Where's the proof for that claim?
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21186184 - 01/27/15 12:02 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wasn't there so I can't prove it. Sounds pretty likely considering even Ross Ulbricht's own lawyer acknowledged this fact..
Quote:
The search warrants and court orders gave investigators permission to tap and trace devices and pen registers for various IP addresses, seize and search computer servers, search Ulbricht’s residence, seize and search a silver Samsung laptop allegedly belonging to Ulbricht, and search the contents of the email account “rossulbricht@gmail.com” and the Facebook account with the user name “rossulbricht.”
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 1,651
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: D.M.T]
#21186226 - 01/27/15 12:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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A warrant to search and seize a laptop isn't quite the same as creating a distraction and grabbing the laptop while he's not looking. That is theft.
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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trampis
mad hatter
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3,545
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21186245 - 01/27/15 12:20 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unless you're a lawyer or law student you really have no grounds to be making such a claim. If it were that simple I imagine Ulbricht's lawyer would have brought the issue up before the trial even began
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
Registered: 11/13/10
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: trampis]
#21186272 - 01/27/15 12:26 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually, justice is a term all should be familiar with, not just lawyers and law students. In fact all laws and the steps that police take should be common knowledge.
To clearly steal a laptop is the opposite of justice.
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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D.M.T
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21186352 - 01/27/15 12:44 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElVatoFirme said: A warrant to search and seize a laptop isn't quite the same as creating a distraction and grabbing the laptop while he's not looking. That is theft.
No it's not. They had the right to take it granted by the courts, and they did.
Under exigent circumstances they do not need to tell you they have a warrant beforehand. In this case the exigent circumstance was that they believed the laptop would become encrypted if he shut it or allowed it to go idle. So they created a distraction to make this impossible.
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trampis
mad hatter
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3,545
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: D.M.T]
#21186477 - 01/27/15 01:18 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
In fact all laws and the steps that police take should be common knowledge.
To clearly steal a laptop is the opposite of justice.
If it's common knowledge then it should come as no surprise to you that once they had a warrant for his shit, it essentially became their shit. In which case, it really doesn't matter how they went about obtaining it because they had a warrant.
If they had confiscated his computer before a warrant existed then your argument would hold water.
I'm not saying I agree with what was done or how they did it, but it really doesn't matter. This evidence is going to hold up.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: trampis] 1
#21188138 - 01/27/15 06:45 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude they needed it idle so they didn't take a pile of encrypted garb, that's why they created a distraction and that isn't illegal at all. Lol make sure you know what you're talking about before making such claims.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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ElVatoFirme
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: trampis]
#21188325 - 01/27/15 07:24 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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But if you don't agree with their actions, you have to say something. This sets a precedent for future cases. Shit, for future investigations.
The police are outnumbered by citizens. We can change their actions and procedures if we speak loud enough.
And @Cognitive_Shift I do know something about what is being discussed. I'm relatively well versed in digital forensics, and security in general. If you knew anything, you'd know every encryption has been cracked for the most part, and I guarantee the FBI has the people to do so. Honestly, saying encryption is the reason they stole his laptop sounds like a lie to justify their behavior.
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21188369 - 01/27/15 07:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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They seized his laptop because they had a warrant. They had a warrant because they believed it contained evidence. It's all pretty cut and dry... even ulbricht's lawyer couldn't drum up any argument.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21188419 - 01/27/15 07:43 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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I feel you, bro. But do you agree with their actions? Do you believe that is how police should conduct themselves?
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21188448 - 01/27/15 07:50 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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What I agree with and don't agree with doesn't really pertain to the facts, which did not agree with your initial argument.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21188452 - 01/27/15 07:50 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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The feds are the hardest bottom liners around. No I don't think it was ethical or right... but if the feds want to get you they will find a way to get you and they will find a way to make it all legal.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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trampis
mad hatter
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21188677 - 01/27/15 08:43 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't agree with the war on drugs, but that doesn't mean I can disregard how shit works because of it.
Maybe someday things will change, but for the time being I know damn well the risks that are involved with that kind of activity and it is my responsibility to protect myself.
The same goes for Ulbricht. If he had take more precautions when he started that project he may not be locked up right now.
He should have never been sitting in a public location with that kind of information up on his computer.
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Kman1898
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21188791 - 01/27/15 09:02 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElVatoFirme said: But if you don't agree with their actions, you have to say something. This sets a precedent for future cases. Shit, for future investigations.
The police are outnumbered by citizens. We can change their actions and procedures if we speak loud enough.
And @Cognitive_Shift I do know something about what is being discussed. I'm relatively well versed in digital forensics, and security in general. If you knew anything, you'd know every encryption has been cracked for the most part, and I guarantee the FBI has the people to do so. Honestly, saying encryption is the reason they stole his laptop sounds like a lie to justify their behavior.
One of the computer scientists in court said that encryption would've been hard to break if they hadn't gotten the laptop while it was open.
-------------------- Difficulty has more to do with reading abillity and ability to precisely follow directions. You need no knowledge of chemistry whatsoever, you just need to understand some basic principles as simple in concept as: water boils at 100C and freezes at 0C. Otherwise all published syntheses of organic and inorganic compounds can be reproduced successfully by pretty nearly anyone with at least average intelligence. Problems always have to do with availability of materials, not esoteric knowledge.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: trampis]
#21188833 - 01/27/15 09:09 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah when I was younger I had the same perspective and when I got older I realized that it takes a LONGGGGGG time for anything political to change including law enforcement and the culture of "drugs are bad." The more money in something the more unlikely it is to change.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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ElVatoFirme
The Thread Killer™
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21189380 - 01/27/15 11:06 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see where you all are coming from, I really do. But we don't have to take this shit. We can make the change happen.
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#21189849 - 01/28/15 03:14 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Yeah when I was younger I had the same perspective and when I got older I realized that it takes a LONGGGGGG time for anything political to change including law enforcement and the culture of "drugs are bad." The more money in something the more unlikely it is to change.
How do you define 'long(extra G)' time? It's only been about 100 years since marijuana was made illegal, and about 45 years since the scheduling act and marijuana legalization is slowly but steadily occurring.
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ElVatoFirme
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: StygianKnight]
#21190576 - 01/28/15 09:48 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said:
Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Yeah when I was younger I had the same perspective and when I got older I realized that it takes a LONGGGGGG time for anything political to change including law enforcement and the culture of "drugs are bad." The more money in something the more unlikely it is to change.
How do you define 'long(extra G)' time? It's only been about 100 years since marijuana was made illegal, and about 45 years since the scheduling act and marijuana legalization is slowly but steadily occurring.
I think he thinks a "LONGGGGGG" time is the lifespan of one human. Explains why so many on this forum feel the last 500 years is ancient history.
Not to mention, if WE THE PEOPLE stand up and DO SOMETHING, that long time gets a great deal shorter.
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Did you know the pen Is stronger than the knife? And they can kill you once But they can't kill you twice Did you know destruction of the flesh Is not the ending to Life? Fear not of the Anti-Christ - Damian Marley -
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trampis
mad hatter
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3,545
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21190693 - 01/28/15 10:19 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sure, if the vast majority of the population stood up today and demanded that the government end the war on drugs we could very well see some change.
The vast majority doesn't give a shit though.
Just look at how long it is taking marijuana to be decriminalized/legalized/medically accepted across the nation.
Change is happening, but don't expect this war to end over night.
I think one of the best approaches we take can to encouraging change is being a good example. As long as people are making headlines for doing stupid shit while under the influence we won't see public opinion change much.
We need to educate people how to use these substances safely/responsibly.
We also need to infiltrate every rung on the social ladder.
When people who have experience with these substances get into positions that the community holds a high respect for then our voice will be far louder.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Silk Road trial: FBI reveals what’s on Ross Ulbricht’s computer, in open court [Re: ElVatoFirme]
#21191369 - 01/28/15 12:37 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElVatoFirme said: If you knew anything, you'd know every encryption has been cracked for the most part, and I guarantee the FBI has the people to do so.
No. Most of the commonly used encryption methods are crackable, but it would take a supercomputer thousands of years to do it.
There is no evidence that the FBI or NSA can crack any of the encryption methods that are currently thought to be secure. The Snowden revelations say the opposite - the NSA was putting backdoors in some commercial encryption software because they could not crack it. (RSA SecureID).
Quote:
ElVatoFirme said: I feel you, bro. But do you agree with their actions? Do you believe that is how police should conduct themselves?
Yes. If I was a cop, I would have done the exact same thing. They were very smart to grab the laptop from him before he could lock the screen.
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