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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
    #13868644 - 01/28/11 10:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer.  Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves.  Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay.
RR




I believe dogs are opportunistic, like bears, and can eat fruits, nuts, some (but not all) vegetables, and definitely eggs.  Ever look at the ingredients in dry dog food?  Corn is the first ingredient.  Iams and Purina, not some store brand either.  I wouldn't feed my dog a vegetarian diet, but I don't think it's particularly bad for them.  Not any worse than dog food, anyway.

I think cats need meat to survive though, but I'm not sure.

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OfflineFruitBowl
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Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 45
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
    #13868651 - 01/28/11 10:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Whatever a dog eats its poo will still be dog poo. They do not have ruminant stomachs. So a cow and a dog eating the same thing will not produce the same end product.

The primary difference between a ruminant and non-ruminant (called monogastrics, such as people, dogs, and pigs) is that ruminants have a four-compartment stomach. The four parts of the stomach are rumen, reticulum, omasum, and abomasum. In the first two chambers, the rumen and the reticulum, the food is mixed with saliva and separates into layers of solid and liquid material. Solids clump together to form the cud or bolus. The cud is then regurgitated, chewed slowly to completely mix it with saliva and to break down the particle size. Fiber, especially cellulose and hemi-cellulose, is primarily broken down into the three volatile fatty acids, ethanoic acid, propanoic acid and 3-hydroxy butanoic acid, in these chambers by microbes (bacteria, archaea, protozoa, and fungi). Protein and non-structural carbohydrate (pectin, sugars, starches) are also fermented.

It is just not the same. Horses are not ruminants either but-

Structural carbohydates like cellulose and hemicellulose, along with starch and other soluble carbohydrates that escape digestion in the small intestine, flow into the large intestine where it is subjected to fermentation.

The large intestine of horses and other hindgut fermenters is a fermentation system analagous to the rumen. The process of fermentation that occurs in the hindgut is essentially identical to that which occurs in the forestomachs of ruminants. Most importantly, horses survive as herbivores because volatile fatty acids are produced in large quantities, absorbed through the cecal and colonic epithelium, and distributed for use throughout the body. One significant difference from the ruminant strategy is that that large quantity of microbial protein generated in the equine large gut is wasted because there is no opportunity there for significant absorption of amino acids.


http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/herbivores/horses.html


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InvisibleJoy1686
Grasshoppa


Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: BothHands]
    #13868656 - 01/28/11 10:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It's not what the animal eats, it's the type of digestive system.  In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer.  Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves.  Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay.
RR



I have NEVER heard that a vegetarian diet will INCREASE the risk of cancer. I've read exactly the opposite. I'm not saying I won't take you seriously, but you'd need to provide me with some evidence, and I could not find anything on google to support that argument.
Yes, the wolf argument. So this is how they eat in the wild, but do mushrooms use perlite in the wild? It's just another way of giving them humidity...and my dogs get fat and protein from eggs and lentils, and they're fine.
Dogs are more okay with a vegetarian diet than other animals believed to be carnivores. They're not, as they say, "obligate carnivores." They can digest vegetables and grains.
The oldest living dog (until recently) was a vegan that lived to 28.
http://dogsinthenews.com/issues/0209/articles/020918a.htm

Quote:

BothHands said:Cats, on the other hand, cannot survive on a vegetarian diet.  Or at least as far as I know.




Ya, I really didn't want this to be about the diet...rather the poop. Anyway, I've been very reluctant to try the vegetarian diet with my cat because I've read that they're obligate carnivores and will go blind without meat. I've heard that they sell vegan cat food...but I've read a lot of warnings about making cats vegan or vegetarian.


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OfflineBothHands
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Registered: 10/28/09
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
    #13868666 - 01/28/11 10:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Your original question has been answered though.  Not even vegan poop would work.  The digestive systems are far too different.

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OfflineFruitBowl
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Registered: 01/26/11
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
    #13868675 - 01/28/11 10:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

but I've read a lot of warnings about making cats vegan or vegetarian.

Rightly so.That is just animal cruelty.It's one thing having kids and having them follow your dietary beliefs but carnivorous animals eat meat and have no hangups about it. If dogs can do okay on a veggie diet that's grand but people making cats do it is just ridiculous.


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InvisibleJoy1686
Grasshoppa


Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: FruitBowl]
    #13868683 - 01/28/11 10:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FruitBowl said:
Whatever a dog eats its poo will still be dog poo. They do not have ruminant stomachs.



Hm...good quotes, thanks!
I was thinking I could maybe compost it...but now I'm reading that it could still have all kinds of crap in it like e.coli and Toxocara canis nematodes...:stars:

Okaaaaaaay, never mind.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
    #13868695 - 01/28/11 10:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Best to just stick to grains and seeds and rice flower.  I wouldn't even use hpoo.  So many alternatives that didn't come out something's ass.

At least you weren't trying to use your own poop.  Had one of those last week. :sigh:

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InvisibleJoy1686
Grasshoppa


Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: evildee125]
    #13868701 - 01/28/11 10:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

evildee125 said:
again op,, this might make for an interesting experiment.. though the question has come up many times and shot down just as frequently, ive never myself actually read of someone trying it.. i imagine the texture wouldnt lend itself well used as is.. if i were to try this, i would mix it in with coir or hpoo.. give it a whirl.. tell us how it goes




Thanks :smile: I'm thinking about composting it, but I've read some stuff to deter me. If I can figure out how to handle those hangups...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=An.NE5rqYTKR2cuTIPcpzUjty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20110128193604AA39Wky
...I may try it. Thanks for being openminded!


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InvisibleJoy1686
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Posts: 66
Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: afrosheen]
    #13868720 - 01/28/11 10:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Man, vegetarians sure are crazy. Trying to use dog crap for cultivation. :smbfacepalm:



You have a kitten in a microwave for your avatar...
AND I'M CRAZY??????
You immature piece of...


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Joy1686]
    #13872403 - 01/29/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Joy1686 said:
Quote:

afrosheen said:
Man, vegetarians sure are crazy. Trying to use dog crap for cultivation. :smbfacepalm:



You have a kitten in a microwave for your avatar...
AND I'M CRAZY??????
You immature piece of...




Please go on, I've never been flamed before and am looking forward to it. :rofl:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: BothHands]
    #13872626 - 01/29/11 06:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer.  Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves.  Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay.
RR




Ever look at the ingredients in dry dog food?  Corn is the first ingredient.  Iams and Purina, not some store brand either.  I wouldn't feed my dog a vegetarian diet, but I don't think it's particularly bad for them.  Not any worse than dog food, anyway.





The addition of corn and other grains in dog food is one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for the increase in dog cancer.  I always hunt and freeze two extra deer every season for my dogs.  They don't eat commercial dog food, but do catch turkey, grouse, rabbits and squirrels, etc., for their food needs.  You'll find some interesting info on dog cancer at alohamedicinals.com
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineFruitBowl
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Registered: 01/26/11
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13875001 - 01/30/11 03:44 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

BothHands said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
In addition, feeding dogs a vegetarian diet will increase the chances of cancer.  Dogs are meat eaters, bred from wolves.  Expecting an animal to adhere to a non natural diet would be like someone forcing you to eat hay.
RR




Ever look at the ingredients in dry dog food?  Corn is the first ingredient.  Iams and Purina, not some store brand either.  I wouldn't feed my dog a vegetarian diet, but I don't think it's particularly bad for them.  Not any worse than dog food, anyway.





The addition of corn and other grains in dog food is one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for the increase in dog cancer.  I always hunt and freeze two extra deer every season for my dogs.  They don't eat commercial dog food, but do catch turkey, grouse, rabbits and squirrels, etc., for their food needs.  You'll find some interesting info on dog cancer at alohamedicinals.com
RR





That's very true. Just because something says it's "dog food" does not mean it is meant for a dog. Just like us, giving animals highly processed food instead of healthy alternatives will make them fat and get other ailments. It's just another way of making money! When was dog food first marketed?

Quote:

Dodi is our cat, and we know cats do not normally eat carbohydrates such as ground rice or sugar nor corn nor vegetables oils. Nevertheless that's what we had been feeding him. It said on the packets that it was 'scientifically formulated' after all.

The absurdity of feeding an animal types of waste it never evolved to eat that actually makes it fat and sick ought to be easy enough to see. But we have not apparently been alone in our blindness – feline diabetes has risen dramatically in the last few years in the UK.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/23/food-book-extract-felicity-lawrence?INTCMP=SRCH


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InvisibleFractalXplora
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: FruitBowl]
    #13875030 - 01/30/11 03:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Jeeees man, give that poor dog a bone and buy some coir ya Pikey!¬

:kittyeagle:  :smilingpuppy: i need meat.


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InvisibleJoy1686
Grasshoppa


Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 66
Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13875816 - 01/30/11 10:32 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The addition of corn and other grains in dog food is one of the biggest if not the biggest reason for the increase in dog cancer.  I always hunt and freeze two extra deer every season for my dogs.  They don't eat commercial dog food, but do catch turkey, grouse, rabbits and squirrels, etc., for their food needs.  You'll find some interesting info on dog cancer at alohamedicinals.com
RR




It's obvious that we're both coming from a place of love for our dogs, so although we have opposing information that we're choosing to follow, we're really trying to do the same thing. I really could not find anything on alohamedicinals.com, as that is a mushroom company. I found some supplements for dogs, but nothing about dog cancer. From what I've been reading, brown rice is the best grain a dog can eat. They recommend it for dogs with sensitive stomachs, as well as dogs going through chemotherapy (would they recommend something cancerous to a dog trying to get rid of cancer?). It is highly recommended by vets. I have read that corn and other highly processed grains can cause allergies in dogs, which I'm trying to avoid because the little one has bad allergies. I think the raw dog food advocates have a very different take on what's healthy and not, but for now I'm going to go with what I've heard from vets. Doctor's don't always know what they're talking about, but that's the info I'm gambling with.
Take care :smile:


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Edited by Joy1686 (01/30/11 11:53 AM)

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OfflineFunguy1146
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #21085985 - 01/08/15 06:43 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I know this is an extremely old post  but was just curious if you also fed the deer to your dogs raw?


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: Dog poo from ovo vegetarian dogs? [Re: Funguy1146]
    #21086134 - 01/08/15 07:51 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:lockdance:

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