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Offlinem4rq112
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Registered: 11/18/14
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20855022 - 11/18/14 10:15 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

:uptosomething:

Edited by cronicr (11/21/14 06:21 PM)

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OfflineFivel
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: m4rq112]
    #20855618 - 11/18/14 12:46 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

:cop:


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"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very EXISTENCE is an act of rebellion."
- Albert Camus  :bonghit:

Have Orissa Prints for trade!

In search of PF albino, PF redspore, PF classic :pm:

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:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::meltdown::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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Invisiblesooperdooper
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Fivel]
    #20856760 - 11/18/14 04:29 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

why are so many new members so quick to get butthurt lately? Seriously, this one's gotta be a record.


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99.9% of what i say is a lie...the other, gibberish. :stoned:


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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: sooperdooper]
    #20859374 - 11/19/14 08:37 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I'm curious about the "Menace" strain.

Anything interesting besides "it's a cube"?

I wonder why it's called that, for example. Is it a "classic" cube?


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Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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InvisibleSanguin3
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please *DELETED* [Re: Fractal420]
    #20859516 - 11/19/14 09:41 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sanguin3

Reason for deletion: .

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Sanguin3]
    #20868736 - 11/21/14 01:24 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I don't usually discuss strains but I got a syringe of one that I haven't grown before recently here.  I got PF Classic as a free syringe with my last order.  I assume that this is one of the most stable of the plain-jane cube strains out there, right?  I'm looking to work with it on agar and am wondering what I might expect.  I was pretty certain that PF classic was one of the oldest and most stabilized strains in existence, but I have no idea what that means in terms of what I might expect after some isolation.

A stable strain usually just means that the spores are very likely to continue to produce mushrooms that have the same characteristics, right?  I would think that might also relieve some of the genetic diversity you'd otherwise see on agar with a very diverse strain like KSSS.


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Coir-ca-cola
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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Inocuole]
    #20872074 - 11/21/14 07:16 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I got one of those too...and if the info is correct it possibly dates back to the strains I was buying from Homestead back in the 80s...

:peace:PS


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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20872090 - 11/21/14 07:20 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

That's what I learned accidentally by continuing to browse the forum, is that it's what they sent out from High Times back in the hayday before I was even born.

Sounds to me like it's a pretty god damn stable variety.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Inocuole]
    #20873857 - 11/22/14 08:40 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

stable is stable.

Quote:

Workman said:
Mushrooom genetics are a little strange since a single mushroom produces spores that can then act as both parents for a new mycelium.  Essentially, you are selfing or inbreeding each time you do a multispore grow.

Now consider a wild collection of Psilocybe cubensis with a high heterozygosity.  This basically means that most or all of each pair of genes in the mushroom are different from each other.  Its the same gene location with the same basic function, but different versions.  For example, if there is a single gene for height, you might have a version that gives short mushrooms and a version that gives tall mushrooms.  If heterozygosity is high, you have one of each which may result in medium mushrooms unless one of the height genes is dominant.

Now, when you do multispore from a single mushroom you randomly get a mix of all the genes.  Sticking to our height gene example, you could get two short copies, two tall copies or one of each.  Obviously the strains with two short copies will be short and the ones with two tall copies will be tall.

Lets say we liked the short mushrooms so we saved that one and took a spore print for later.  In this example the tall version of the height gene is lost to later generations.  There is a net loss of heterozygosity.  Over the entire genome the loss is about 50% per generation.

So mathematically we can figure out how many sequential multispore generations we need until the heterozygosity is reduced to an insignificant level and the strain is stable even from multispore.

Starting with a presumably high (~100%) heterozygosity from a wild collection.  In reality, the heterozygosity is probably lower than 100%, but its an easy number to start with.

100% wild print
50% 1st generation from wild print
25% 2nd generation from 1st generation print
12.5% 3rd generation.....
6.25% 4th generation.....
3.12% 5th generation.....
1.56% 6th generation.....
0.78% 7th generation.....

You can see that the heterozygosity drops off quickly in the first few generations and is less than 1% after the 6th generation.  This highlights the importance of choosing the best traits early on when there are more to choose from.  Attempting to isolate traits in well established strains results in only minimal improvements unless spontaneous mutations increase the heterozygosity in a positive way (rare).

In summary:

Popular classic strains in circulation have all been grown well beyond 6 generations and are relatively stable from multispore with little need for isolation.

New strains, from wild material or cross breeding between different strains of the same species, can be stabilized fairly quickly with 6 or 7 generations of sequential multispore grows.

Selection is most important early in the process and if good genes are bred out, they are gone forever.  Archiving original or early generation prints is recommended for preserving heterozygosity for later selective breeding.  Continuous isolation of a bad strain with hopes of significant improvement is futile.

Does that help?





if anything your print is so far away from the original PF classic that it might have had good traits weeded out. that's speculation but worrying about things like this are irrelevant usually.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: bodhisatta]
    #20874690 - 11/22/14 01:31 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

The best strain is EQ.

/E.O.T.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #20874703 - 11/22/14 01:35 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
The best strain is EQ.

/E.O.T.




:takingnotes:

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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #20874745 - 11/22/14 01:48 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

:lmafo:


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AMU
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Offlinebummerhigh
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: MudaFuka]
    #20897652 - 11/27/14 04:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I just read an interesting article on penis envy, http://www.vice.com/read/12-inch-shroom-603-v16n2
i'm sure somebody has mentioned it before

I passed it off as a novelty strain when I first became aware of it's existence a couple years ago, now i'm somewhat curious of this token shroom from unknown origin. one spore vendor also claims it to be form mckenna, is it a marketing gimmick or did mckenna really introduce the strain to american soil?

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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: bummerhigh]
    #20897774 - 11/27/14 05:16 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I read somewhere that he denied it. Either way it's an awesome variety. I have a PE clone that has fast become my go to culture. They take a bit longer to fruit than most cubes but There potency has not been exaggerated IME. They also produce very dense fruits.


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AMU
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Liquid Inoculant Tek                                   
                     

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Invisibleazur
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: MudaFuka]
    #20898459 - 11/27/14 08:46 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Their potency is not to be reckoned with. With all cubes i recommend 2.5. With pe i recommend 1.


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A cube is NOT a cube.

FALL IN LOVE WITH LC
FOTTSE!!!
ALL NOOBS READ THIS!!!


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OfflinePoppaninja
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Registered: 10/19/14
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: azur]
    #20917372 - 12/02/14 02:03 PM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I am a huge fan of treasure coast when doing multi spore. They have a lot of variety in traits, but they always seem to fruit really well for me. I don't know if it is my climate or what. I wonder how close to wild they actually are.

Edited by Poppaninja (12/02/14 06:22 PM)

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Poppaninja]
    #20931459 - 12/05/14 05:24 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Treasure coast are some of the only ones that didn't work out for me.  Very slow colonizers IMO

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OfflineFractal420
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Poppaninja]
    #20931469 - 12/05/14 05:32 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

I have a genetics question I was curious about.

So what exactly happens when two kinds of different spawn are mixed into one tub (I don't just mean "they fruit", lol). Let's say it's even the same variety, like knocking up two Cambodians with MS, but since they wouldn't be the same, wouldn't mixing these different spawn mess up the genetics at all? What I mean is, in the past I have noticed such awesome results with just using one type of spawn. Also spawn that is G2G seems to be identical genetically (right?)

Or is it?

Should each tub always just be G2G'd with each jar the same genes? (Or LC/GLC/Agar, it doesn't matter, I'm just wondering how this works) in short is it a bad idea to mix spawn of different spores? I would love to know what happens on a biological level

I've noticed if there's only one type of spawn, most fruit come out more less looking the same, less mutations and such. Whereas, a tub that's a bit more recent with mixed spawn produced a first flush of lots of mutants (I know this can happen with first flushes).

The Fractal-Mazzies in my sig are all from one type of spawn. They all look the same


--------------------
Dreaming of That face again.
It's bright and blue and shimmering.
Grinning wide
And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes.

Prying open MY third eye


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: Fractal420]
    #20931998 - 12/05/14 09:31 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Two different kinds of spawn = they both fruit independently.  Consider the wild. :thumbup:

What else do you expect?  It's just like MS, you have lots of substrains, sometimes you'll see patterns of flushing corresponding to the particular dominants...

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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OfflinePoppaninja
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Re: Strain Thread-Strain Discussion HERE ONLY Please [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #20936296 - 12/06/14 04:54 AM (9 years, 3 months ago)

Mushrooms have all the kinds of sex if they can.

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