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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: LunarEclipse]
#20692472 - 10/12/14 12:06 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I didn't say you did. My point is that it is less work to do it right the first time
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: zappaisgod]
#20692584 - 10/12/14 12:34 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I didn't say you did. My point is that it is less work to do it right the first time
I don't know. These guys didn't put teco nail 1 into the floor joists, they just hung the joists from the metal hangers. That saved some work.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: Enlil] 1
#20692942 - 10/12/14 02:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
If one has really solid skills and work ethic, one doesn't need union protection. I remember when I was in a union. I did the bare minimum to get by and got a decent paycheck for it.
The saftey culture between the non union and union jobsites are not the same , I've seen way better saftey practices on union jobs , for the last 12 years . Ive worked both union and non , that's wat I've seen . Good for u if u don't want to be in a union , but what about me as a contractor ? Union contractors enjoy a huge labor pool , that's available immediately . Contractors in my trade rarely have a consistent amount of work, 1 month you may need 20 guys the next only 6. It's a work world where you need employees to come and go. If your a union contractor and you need 20 guys to man a job tomorrow , the union will send them to you . And all those guys went through the same 4 year training program as you . If your non you go to craigslist , the paper , wherever you can I guess. And hopefully when the tell you their the best and the smartest they have some way to prove it . That's wishfully thinking though , the reality is you'll be lucky if they speak English .
I just got my contractors license . I plan on doing both small non union jobs and big union jobs for the state of California . The state will mandate your body count for u and tell you how much to pay them ,it's called prevailing wage. This is way easier if your a union contractor. I plan on having a union and a non union shop like allot of contractors I've worked for. I plan on making a fortune taking advantage of both worlds . Unless someone who is smarter with more experience than me can explain to me why I shouldn't.
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farmer88
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: zappaisgod]
#20692992 - 10/12/14 02:16 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Almost nobody who has been doing carpentry for 40 years can do what makes me special. Yes, I have mad saw and hammer skills but what sets me apart is the calculator and 3D visualization skills. I cannot explain in words what it is to calculate and cut a hip roof with unequal pitches and equal overhangs and figure out the angles on each side, the depth of cut and where on the wall it crosses and all the jack rafters without ever leaving the pad, the calculator and the bench and send it all up and have it fit like a watch. I am the only person I know who can do that and nobody taught me. I figured it out
If you cannot 'explain in words' words you cannot do it. JFC. Narcissistic wanker.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: farmer88]
#20693388 - 10/12/14 03:42 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
farmer88 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Almost nobody who has been doing carpentry for 40 years can do what makes me special. Yes, I have mad saw and hammer skills but what sets me apart is the calculator and 3D visualization skills. I cannot explain in words what it is to calculate and cut a hip roof with unequal pitches and equal overhangs and figure out the angles on each side, the depth of cut and where on the wall it crosses and all the jack rafters without ever leaving the pad, the calculator and the bench and send it all up and have it fit like a watch. I am the only person I know who can do that and nobody taught me. I figured it out
If you cannot 'explain in words' words you cannot do it. JFC. Narcissistic wanker.
ORLY? Would you please explain in words what "red" is?
The English language does not lend itself well to three dimensional visualization and you wouldn't have the vocabulary to understand it.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: psilynut]
#20693402 - 10/12/14 03:44 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
If one has really solid skills and work ethic, one doesn't need union protection. I remember when I was in a union. I did the bare minimum to get by and got a decent paycheck for it.
The saftey culture between the non union and union jobsites are not the same , I've seen way better saftey practices on union jobs , for the last 12 years . Ive worked both union and non , that's wat I've seen . Good for u if u don't want to be in a union , but what about me as a contractor ? Union contractors enjoy a huge labor pool , that's available immediately . Contractors in my trade rarely have a consistent amount of work, 1 month you may need 20 guys the next only 6. It's a work world where you need employees to come and go. If your a union contractor and you need 20 guys to man a job tomorrow , the union will send them to you . And all those guys went through the same 4 year training program as you . If your non you go to craigslist , the paper , wherever you can I guess. And hopefully when the tell you their the best and the smartest they have some way to prove it . That's wishfully thinking though , the reality is you'll be lucky if they speak English .
I just got my contractors license . I plan on doing both small non union jobs and big union jobs for the state of California . The state will mandate your body count for u and tell you how much to pay them ,it's called prevailing wage. This is way easier if your a union contractor. I plan on having a union and a non union shop like allot of contractors I've worked for. I plan on making a fortune taking advantage of both worlds . Unless someone who is smarter with more experience than me can explain to me why I shouldn't.
Bullshit. Everybody I have trained is better than any union cunt and my safety record is impeccable. Unions are for incompetent cunts who can't compete in a free market.
So you're gonna be a scab, huh?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: LunarEclipse]
#20693406 - 10/12/14 03:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I didn't say you did. My point is that it is less work to do it right the first time
I don't know. These guys didn't put teco nail 1 into the floor joists, they just hung the joists from the metal hangers. That saved some work.
Does that seem like doing it right the first time? Did the inspector make them go back and do it after? Did you or did you just stand by?
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: zappaisgod]
#20693512 - 10/12/14 04:10 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I didn't say you did. My point is that it is less work to do it right the first time
I don't know. These guys didn't put teco nail 1 into the floor joists, they just hung the joists from the metal hangers. That saved some work.
Does that seem like doing it right the first time? Did the inspector make them go back and do it after? Did you or did you just stand by?
This was back in 1980 when they didn't nail it, and the inspector passed it. Another example of quality modern construction. I couldn't tell until we pulled the shitty carpet, pad, particle board, and finally plywood. No insulation between floors either, saved both time and money there.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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psilynut
aka Patchraper
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: LunarEclipse] 1
#20693677 - 10/12/14 04:44 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Zappa said:
Bullshit. Everybody I have trained is better than any union cunt and my safety record is impeccable. Unions are for incompetent cunts who can't compete in a free market.
So you're gonna be a scab, huh?
Quote:
psilynut said: Unless someone who is smarter with more experience than me
As a contractor there's nothing stopping me from operating both shops , I know contractors doing it right now . Nothing wrong with it . I'll join the union and pay dues just like a worker but the relationship is different , and so are the rules . As a contractor the union works for me . They provide me trained guys . Wether or not they are the best is irrelevant , they all do the work the same for the same price . They don't get raises in the middle of the job . Makes my labor cost easier to predict , and they can be replaced tomorrow by simply calling the business agent . This is important when doing public works , I don't have time to interview people , I need people who can follow state building building code while an inspector watches them, union people in my trade are trained for this specific thing . I know how to take advantage of that construction world . You don't , so whatever . I just wana make money , allot of money , I don't have to be the best to pull that off , I just have to be clever and play both sides of the game , something you will never know how to do .
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farmer88
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: zappaisgod]
#20693790 - 10/12/14 05:09 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
farmer88 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Almost nobody who has been doing carpentry for 40 years can do what makes me special. Yes, I have mad saw and hammer skills but what sets me apart is the calculator and 3D visualization skills. I cannot explain in words what it is to calculate and cut a hip roof with unequal pitches and equal overhangs and figure out the angles on each side, the depth of cut and where on the wall it crosses and all the jack rafters without ever leaving the pad, the calculator and the bench and send it all up and have it fit like a watch. I am the only person I know who can do that and nobody taught me. I figured it out
If you cannot 'explain in words' words you cannot do it. JFC. Narcissistic wanker.
ORLY? Would you please explain in words what "red" is?
The English language does not lend itself well to three dimensional visualization and you wouldn't have the vocabulary to understand it.
You must have extreme difficulty training people, can't explain how to do it.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: psilynut]
#20693937 - 10/12/14 05:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilynut said:
Quote:
Zappa said:
Bullshit. Everybody I have trained is better than any union cunt and my safety record is impeccable. Unions are for incompetent cunts who can't compete in a free market.
So you're gonna be a scab, huh?
Quote:
psilynut said: Unless someone who is smarter with more experience than me
As a contractor there's nothing stopping me from operating both shops , I know contractors doing it right now . Nothing wrong with it . I'll join the union and pay dues just like a worker but the relationship is different , and so are the rules . As a contractor the union works for me . They provide me trained guys . Wether or not they are the best is irrelevant , they all do the work the same for the same price . They don't get raises in the middle of the job . Makes my labor cost easier to predict , and they can be replaced tomorrow by simply calling the business agent . This is important when doing public works , I don't have time to interview people , I need people who can follow state building building code while an inspector watches them, union people in my trade are trained for this specific thing . I know how to take advantage of that construction world . You don't , so whatever . I just wana make money , allot of money , I don't have to be the best to pull that off , I just have to be clever and play both sides of the game , something you will never know how to do .
You are a scab
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: farmer88]
#20693945 - 10/12/14 05:48 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
farmer88 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
farmer88 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Almost nobody who has been doing carpentry for 40 years can do what makes me special. Yes, I have mad saw and hammer skills but what sets me apart is the calculator and 3D visualization skills. I cannot explain in words what it is to calculate and cut a hip roof with unequal pitches and equal overhangs and figure out the angles on each side, the depth of cut and where on the wall it crosses and all the jack rafters without ever leaving the pad, the calculator and the bench and send it all up and have it fit like a watch. I am the only person I know who can do that and nobody taught me. I figured it out
If you cannot 'explain in words' words you cannot do it. JFC. Narcissistic wanker.
ORLY? Would you please explain in words what "red" is?
The English language does not lend itself well to three dimensional visualization and you wouldn't have the vocabulary to understand it.
You must have extreme difficulty training people, can't explain how to do it.
]
I can show people with some experience. I cannot explain it to idiots without any. They don't have the vocabulary. If I say "depth of cut" what does that mean to you?
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psilynut
aka Patchraper
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: zappaisgod]
#20694169 - 10/12/14 06:35 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
You are a scab
Maybe , but that's irellavent to the fact that I have the potential to make way more money than you through having a broader range of experience and being open minded to all money making opportunities at my disposal . So is you being the best , I think you probably are the best at the niche you carved out for yourself , so why not do union jobs with union labor if contracting is your thing. If your smart , You don't have to like it , nothing stoping you from making money there . I know a concrete contractor who hires union and non union carpenter foremen . Your smart yet you step over money on principle?
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farmer88
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: zappaisgod]
#20694736 - 10/12/14 08:42 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I can show people with some experience. I cannot explain it to idiots without any. They don't have the vocabulary. If I say "depth of cut" what does that mean to you?
Well, for a start, it sounds like you don't have much experience in the area and are creating a cover story. If you were in the industry you would know that most of those that need tuition are people with no experience. You are making shit up.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: farmer88]
#20694747 - 10/12/14 08:45 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
farmer88 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I can show people with some experience. I cannot explain it to idiots without any. They don't have the vocabulary. If I say "depth of cut" what does that mean to you?
Well, for a start, it sounds like you don't have much experience in the area and are creating a cover story. If you were in the industry you would know that most of those that need tuition are people with no experience. You are making shit up.
actually he sounds very knowledgeable in the field.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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farmer88
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: psyconaught]
#20694787 - 10/12/14 08:56 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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A carpenter who cannot explain job related concepts to others is not bright. Where I come from they call them "dumb chippies'
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: farmer88]
#20694808 - 10/12/14 09:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
farmer88 said: A carpenter who cannot explain job related concepts to others is not bright. Where I come from they call them "dumb chippies'
theres a vast difference between describing concepts over the internet in an abstract fashion and demonstrating said concepts in person with the actual visuals and materials right in front of you. Not everyone is a perfect linguist. I couldnt describe what i do in a meaningful way without the person being present.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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farmer88
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 1,247
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: psyconaught]
#20694960 - 10/12/14 09:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
farmer88 said: A carpenter who cannot explain job related concepts to others is not bright. Where I come from they call them "dumb chippies'
theres a vast difference between describing concepts over the internet in an abstract fashion and demonstrating said concepts in person with the actual visuals and materials right in front of you. Not everyone is a perfect linguist. I couldnt describe what i do in a meaningful way without the person being present.
Really? Good for you psyco, run off now. My dumb chippy mate zappa's communication skills are in question as his posts demonstrate. Your modest level was established some time ago.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: farmer88]
#20694980 - 10/12/14 09:51 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
farmer88 said:
Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
farmer88 said: A carpenter who cannot explain job related concepts to others is not bright. Where I come from they call them "dumb chippies'
theres a vast difference between describing concepts over the internet in an abstract fashion and demonstrating said concepts in person with the actual visuals and materials right in front of you. Not everyone is a perfect linguist. I couldnt describe what i do in a meaningful way without the person being present.
Really? Good for you psyco, run off now. My dumb chippy mate zappa's communication skills are in question as his posts demonstrate. Your modest level was established some time ago.
run off now? You seem to think you have some sort of power/importance here.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: employment truthers see new conspiracy [Re: psyconaught]
#20695415 - 10/13/14 12:25 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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He's a legend in his own mind and a good laugh for the rest of us.
I'd love to have one of Zaps homes but it's way beyond my price range.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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