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meltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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L-tryptophan
#20634330 - 09/29/14 08:48 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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From my understanding L tryptophan is converted in psylocybin cubensis to dmt and then to psylocybin, my hypothesis is that if l tryptophan enriched bulk substrate or water was used for growing then the mushrooms would produce more psylocybin. Also would it be the same concept as before if the soil or casing was enriched with dmt or dmt containing plants such as acacia confusa root bar or yopo seeds? Any help is always appreciated
Magic dino jedi
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent
Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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There have been many posts and ideas about this since the 80's with no relative data to show that it does any good since everything is broken down on a cellular level and the basically rebuilt.
This is probably the best discussion I've seen on it here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/13200397
Edited by Ghatti (09/29/14 11:44 AM)
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annunaki yooper
Philosopher
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 399
Loc: In Da U.P....eh?
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Would you run into any problems running l-tryptophan through the PC? Would high temperatures break it down? I'm not a chemist.
-------------------- Anything I say on here is total bullshit...I'm really insecure and lie A LOT to fit in
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meltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Well if its used on bulk substrate or casing those or typically pasteurized so it might not kill it, ill check at the temp that it brakes down. Also there might be a way just to mist with it? I was just seeing if anyone else had any experience with the topic
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annunaki yooper
Philosopher
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 399
Loc: In Da U.P....eh?
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Quote:
meltymushroom said: Well if its used on bulk substrate or casing those or typically pasteurized so it might not kill it, ill check at the temp that it brakes down. Also there might be a way just to mist with it? I was just seeing if anyone else had any experience with the topic
Misting idea with it is a good idea
-------------------- Anything I say on here is total bullshit...I'm really insecure and lie A LOT to fit in
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meltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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alright well my friend in another country is doing a test with it and is going to do one with enriched water one with enriched casing and one control with the same spawn and everything else
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Ghatti
Totally not a Federal Agent
Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 1,733
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Please ensure he is using an isolate and a double blind standard with the same subject under the same conditions with time between tests to replenish serotonin and such. Unless he has access to a GC this will not be a very efficient test.
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meltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: Ghatti]
#20650465 - 10/02/14 07:57 PM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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because amount of misting and such?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 17 hours
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Waste of time and money.
If you want more potent mushrooms, grow a more potent species. Or just take more of what you have.
Also, no mushrooms produce DMT. Only plants and animals do that.
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meltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi
Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
meltymushroom said: Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin
Clearly not. If that was the case, DMT would be detected in psilocybin mushrooms.
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weaksause
Stranger
Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 254
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
meltymushroom said: Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin
Clearly not. If that was the case, DMT would be detected in psilocybin mushrooms.
DMT
Psilocybin
from wikipedia maybe you could explain , alan; i do believe an explanation is called for instead of simply stating its not the case. at least i am curious!
thx for all the info too, alan! library of knowledge. i'm learning a lot
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Quote:
weaksause said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
meltymushroom said: Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin
Clearly not. If that was the case, DMT would be detected in psilocybin mushrooms.
DMT
Psilocybin
from wikipedia maybe you could explain , alan; i do believe an explanation is called for instead of simply stating its not the case. at least i am curious!
thx for all the info too, alan! library of knowledge. i'm learning a lot
Meltymushroom and weaksauce are technically correct that psilocybin mushrooms contain dimethyltryptamine. Psiloc(yb)in IS 4hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine and it's phosphate ester.
Though the biosynthesis pathway weaksauce laid out is erroneous, mostly on the part of wiki of course. The oxidation of dimethyltryptamine will not produce psiloc(yb)in.
The synthesis pathway found in psiloc(yb)in containing mushrooms is as follows:
L Tryptophan
Decorboxylation of L Tryptophan produces Tryptamine
Tryptamine
Oxidation on the 4th position of tryptamine produces 4-hydroxytryptamine
4-hydroxytryptamine
Enzymatic methylation of 4-hydroxytryptamine produces 4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine (4-hydroxy NMT)
4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine
A second enzymatic methylation of the now 4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine produces 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine (4-HO-N,N,DMT) commonly known as psilocin
4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine (psilocin)
Enzymatic phosphorylation of psilocin produces a phosphate ester of 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine commonly called psilocybin
4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine phosphate ester (psilocybin)
Notes on potency:
Of the two potentially active compounds psilocin and psilocybin only the latter is stable enough to not degrade during the drying process, that being said you should try to influence the last step in psilocybin biosynthesis pathway by providing a available source of phosphorous that the fungi can use to phosphorylate as much psilocin into psilocybin as possible so it is not lost during the drying process, to this I have found thorough extensive experimentation to find that diammonium phosphate (available at home brewery supply stores) provides a very readily hydrosoluble source of phosphorous.
Diammonium phosphate
I hoped this cleared up some things
-------------------- AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
Edited by WillSolvem (10/14/14 12:33 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 17 hours
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Good info. In your corrected pathway I see psilocin, but not DMT. Am I interpreting that correctly?
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist
Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 73
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
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There was a study where they added the precursors of psilocybin to the media. You can see it here.
It's rather old, but interesting. And there are plenty of papers, you just need to know what to search. 'Biosynthesis' can get you a lot of the studies on certain chemical development in an organism.
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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DMT = Dimethyltryptamine
Psilocin = 4-HO-dimethyltryptamine
Psilocin IS DMT but with a hydroxy attached at the 4th position
-------------------- AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,358
Last seen: 7 days, 17 hours
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So there is never DMT in psilocybin mushrooms except for the kind of DMT that has a hydroxy in the 4 position?
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: So there is never DMT in psilocybin mushrooms except for the kind of DMT that has a hydroxy in the 4 position?
Correct, as far as I am informed there has never been n,n-dimethyltryptamine found in any mushroom species WITHOUT the hydroxy bond at the 4th position
-------------------- AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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In regards to fungi the hydroxy is attached before the enzymatic methylation of the tryptamine, meaning DMT without the hydroxy couldn't even occur (theoretically) in fungi to begin with.
-------------------- AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom
Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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The oxidation before methylation also explains Baeocystin (4-PO-NMT) which is 4-hydroxy NMT that has been phosphorylated to 4-PO-NMT. It would seem that in some cases the phosphorylation enzyme grabs on to 4-ho-nmt and 4-ho tryptamine and phosphorylates it before it goes through the methylation steps.
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