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Offlinemeltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
L-tryptophan
    #20634330 - 09/29/14 08:48 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

From my understanding L tryptophan is converted in psylocybin cubensis to dmt and then to psylocybin, my hypothesis is that if l tryptophan enriched bulk substrate or water was used for growing then the mushrooms would produce more psylocybin. Also would it be the same concept as before if the soil or casing was enriched with dmt or dmt containing plants such as acacia confusa root bar or yopo seeds? Any help is always appreciated

Magic dino jedi


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InvisibleGhatti
Totally not a Federal Agent
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: meltymushroom]
    #20634851 - 09/29/14 11:41 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

There have been many posts and ideas about this since the 80's with no relative data to show that it does any good since everything is broken down on a cellular level and the basically rebuilt.

This is probably the best discussion I've seen on it here
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/13200397

Edited by Ghatti (09/29/14 11:44 AM)

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Offlineannunaki yooper
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: meltymushroom]
    #20635943 - 09/29/14 03:33 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Would you run into any problems running l-tryptophan through the PC? Would high temperatures break it down? I'm not a chemist.


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Anything I say on here is total bullshit...I'm really insecure and lie A LOT to fit in

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Offlinemeltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: annunaki yooper]
    #20637907 - 09/29/14 09:49 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Well if its used on bulk substrate or casing those or typically pasteurized so it might not kill it, ill check at the temp that it brakes down. Also there might be a way just to mist with it? I was just seeing if anyone else had any experience with the topic  :grin:


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Offlineannunaki yooper
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: meltymushroom]
    #20638915 - 09/30/14 06:20 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

meltymushroom said:
Well if its used on bulk substrate or casing those or typically pasteurized so it might not kill it, ill check at the temp that it brakes down. Also there might be a way just to mist with it? I was just seeing if anyone else had any experience with the topic  :grin:




Misting idea with it is a good idea


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Anything I say on here is total bullshit...I'm really insecure and lie A LOT to fit in

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Offlinemeltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: annunaki yooper]
    #20646191 - 10/01/14 08:58 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

alright well my friend in another country is doing a test with it and is going to do one with enriched water one with enriched casing and one control with the same spawn and everything else


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InvisibleGhatti
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: meltymushroom]
    #20646785 - 10/01/14 10:54 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Please ensure he is using an isolate and a double blind standard with the same subject under the same conditions with time between tests to replenish serotonin and such. Unless he has access to a GC this will not be a very efficient test.

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Offlinemeltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi


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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: Ghatti]
    #20650465 - 10/02/14 07:57 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

because amount of misting and such?


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      :discorex::pipesmoke::buddha::farmerdance: :buddha::deemsters::discorex:
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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: meltymushroom]
    #20657140 - 10/04/14 11:26 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Waste of time and money.


If you want more potent mushrooms, grow a more potent species.    Or just take more of what you have.


Also, no mushrooms produce DMT.  Only plants and animals do that.

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Offlinemeltymushroom
Magic Dino Jedi


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 188
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #20662209 - 10/05/14 03:59 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin


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      :discorex::pipesmoke::buddha::farmerdance: :buddha::deemsters::discorex:
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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: meltymushroom]
    #20662435 - 10/05/14 04:46 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

meltymushroom said:
Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin





Clearly not.  If that was the case, DMT would be detected in psilocybin mushrooms.

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Offlineweaksause
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Registered: 08/26/14
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #20675559 - 10/08/14 01:56 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

meltymushroom said:
Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin





Clearly not.  If that was the case, DMT would be detected in psilocybin mushrooms.




DMT

Psilocybin

from wikipedia

maybe you could explain , alan; i do believe an explanation is called for instead of simply stating its not the case.
at least i am curious!:thumbup:

thx for all the info too, alan! library of knowledge. i'm learning a lot

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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: weaksause]
    #20683383 - 10/10/14 09:55 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

weaksause said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

meltymushroom said:
Dude look at the process of psylocibin.. Im pretty sure it goes l tryptophan to tryptamine to dmt and then to pscylicin





Clearly not.  If that was the case, DMT would be detected in psilocybin mushrooms.




DMT

Psilocybin

from wikipedia

maybe you could explain , alan; i do believe an explanation is called for instead of simply stating its not the case.
at least i am curious!:thumbup:

thx for all the info too, alan! library of knowledge. i'm learning a lot




Meltymushroom and weaksauce are technically correct that psilocybin mushrooms contain dimethyltryptamine. Psiloc(yb)in IS 4hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine and it's phosphate ester.

Though the biosynthesis pathway weaksauce laid out is erroneous, mostly on the part of wiki of course. The oxidation of dimethyltryptamine will not produce psiloc(yb)in.

The synthesis pathway found in psiloc(yb)in containing mushrooms is as follows:

L Tryptophan


Decorboxylation of L Tryptophan produces Tryptamine

Tryptamine


Oxidation on the 4th position of tryptamine produces 4-hydroxytryptamine

4-hydroxytryptamine


Enzymatic methylation of 4-hydroxytryptamine produces 4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine (4-hydroxy NMT)

4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine


A second enzymatic methylation of the now 4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine produces 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine (4-HO-N,N,DMT) commonly known as psilocin

4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine (psilocin)


Enzymatic phosphorylation of psilocin produces a phosphate ester of 4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine commonly called psilocybin

4-hydroxy-dimethyltryptamine phosphate ester (psilocybin)



Notes on potency:

Of the two potentially active compounds psilocin and psilocybin only the latter is stable enough to not degrade during the drying process, that being said you should try to influence the last step in psilocybin biosynthesis pathway by providing a available source of phosphorous that the fungi can use to phosphorylate as much psilocin into psilocybin as possible so it is not lost during the drying process, to this I have found thorough extensive experimentation to find that diammonium phosphate (available at home brewery supply stores) provides a very readily hydrosoluble source of phosphorous.

Diammonium phosphate


I hoped this cleared up some things :thumbup:


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.

Edited by WillSolvem (10/14/14 12:33 PM)

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: WillSolvem]
    #20683533 - 10/10/14 10:51 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Good info.  In your corrected pathway I see psilocin, but not DMT.    Am I interpreting that correctly?

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Offlineg3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #20683555 - 10/10/14 11:00 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

There was a study where they added the precursors of psilocybin to the media.  You can see it here.

It's rather old, but interesting.  And there are plenty of papers, you just need to know what to search.  'Biosynthesis' can get you a lot of the studies on certain chemical development in an organism.

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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
    #20683739 - 10/10/14 11:53 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

DMT = Dimethyltryptamine

Psilocin = 4-HO-dimethyltryptamine

Psilocin IS  DMT but with a hydroxy attached at the 4th position


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: WillSolvem]
    #20683742 - 10/10/14 11:53 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

So there is never DMT in psilocybin mushrooms except for the kind of DMT that has a hydroxy in the 4 position?

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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #20683766 - 10/10/14 11:58 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
So there is never DMT in psilocybin mushrooms except for the kind of DMT that has a hydroxy in the 4 position?



Correct, as far as I am informed there has never been n,n-dimethyltryptamine found in any mushroom species WITHOUT the hydroxy bond at the 4th position :thumbup:


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.

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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: WillSolvem]
    #20683793 - 10/10/14 12:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

In regards to fungi the hydroxy is attached before the enzymatic methylation of the tryptamine, meaning DMT without the hydroxy couldn't even occur (theoretically) in fungi to begin with.


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.

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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: L-tryptophan [Re: WillSolvem] * 1
    #20685985 - 10/10/14 08:55 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

The oxidation before methylation also explains Baeocystin (4-PO-NMT) which is 4-hydroxy NMT that has been phosphorylated to 4-PO-NMT.
It would seem that in some cases the phosphorylation enzyme grabs on to 4-ho-nmt and 4-ho tryptamine and phosphorylates it before it goes through the methylation steps.

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