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InvisibleBlackWidow
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Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
Re: Feds Target [Re: Legend]
    #20614645 - 09/24/14 10:55 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Aaaand this thread just turned weird. :smilingpuppy:

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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
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Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #20632912 - 09/28/14 09:26 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
I'm no teenager. Everyone who I know that has taken the stuff whether addicted or not has thrown them away and calls them poison.
I am extremely self reliant and responsible but it fucked my life for over a year and had to rely on family and friends to get by. It needs to be regulated for sure. When you have a massive stash and using it for true anxiety, it's really easy for you to go from 2mg to 20mg overnight. Of course the nature of the drug lets you accept that fact and procrastinate the addiction until you're completely out.







I'm sorry, but Bull fucking SHIT!


Don't try to claim that a drug "needs" to be regulated, and unavailable to the rest of us, just because YOU cant control yourself with it.


I have one of the most annoyingly addictive personalities on the planet. On-again-off-again issues with opiates for well over a decade. Smoker. Unmedicated ADHD with stimulant-abuse tendencies. MDPV is one of the most compulsive drugs I've ever seen (close cousins like a-pvp not far behind.)  Much worse than even crack. That shit almost killed me. Couple points with binges so long and extreme you might not even believe me, if I detailed it.

I also struggle with depression, anxiety, and other fun stuff like that.

I've taken benzos plenty. But they were never my "drug of choice." I didn't favor them. Didn't like the feel, the high. Euphoria? Barely. More like retrograde amnesia on the light end, and blackout on the heavy end. Real fun. At a couple points, due to life issues, major stress, etc, I had to take benzos regularly for long periods of time. I was prescribed xanax for maybe a year or two when I was younger.



Hell, I once sat on 1.5 grams of phenazepam (pure powder) and made it last for YEARS.


And it was only after taking phenazepam every day, for a period of a couple months (medicinally) that I started to worry that I could be dependent, and so I slowly tapered myself off. Completely without incident. And then went right back to sitting on that shit-ton of benzo doses until the next time I truly needed it, and couldn't cope with life without.


Haven't taken a benzo in ages.


You put some really good, euphoric stimulants in front of me? We might have a problem. Because that's how I'm wired. Which is different' from how you're wired.


Maybe something about etiz makes it a more "moreish" benzo than normal. But nothing I've read seems to indicate this. Just that some people will have a hard time controlling themselves with it and take more than they need, ...just like EVERY other benzo-type medication on the planet. Some people have this same problem with xanax or klonopin. Some people just seem to have this issue with benzos. Sucks, but that's just how it is...


--------------------
------------------------
I am me. We are You.

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #20632961 - 09/28/14 09:37 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I'm all for personal responsibility but then that would mean you wouldn't need to order more than a few mg per day. When they sell it in bulk it's obviously being sold for secondary distribution or a massive habit. Anyone who truly needs a short term benzodiazepine can go to urgent care and pick up a script. If you have a massive habit, then any primary physician will prescribe a taper of Librium for you to safely get clean for a few months.

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OfflinePureless
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Registered: 07/16/12
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Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #20634023 - 09/29/14 06:06 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
I'm all for personal responsibility but then that would mean you wouldn't need to order more than a few mg per day. When they sell it in bulk it's obviously being sold for secondary distribution or a massive habit. Anyone who truly needs a short term benzodiazepine can go to urgent care and pick up a script. If you have a massive habit, then any primary physician will prescribe a taper of Librium for you to safely get clean for a few months.




you sound like a drug prohibitionist.

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InvisibleSalomon
ಠ︵ಠ balance ಠ_ಠ weaver ಠ‿ಠ
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Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH Flag
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: Pureless]
    #20634383 - 09/29/14 09:01 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

drug prohibition is always because of the same thing.


a few people irresponsibly use something.

concerned parents and friends, concerned people that themselves have ABUSED these molecules/ have been effected by ABUSE of this molecule.


you can destroy your life with alcohol which is legal. you can get a legal prescription for benzos and then abuse them. and if you really wanted, you could get all manor of illegal substances and do the same.


federally banning something is not progress. it halts research and  makes legitimate clinical and analytical work. that's what these chemicals are. RESEARCH CHEMICALS.

when people CHOOSE to ABUSE chemicals, the PEOPLE are the ones at fault, NOT the CHEMICAL. see how i used capitalized words, to emphasize a point there?


getting  pure compounds in bulk amounts is perfectly reasonable, so long as the chemical is being used for reasonable purposes. if a chemist wants to get a bulk amount to use for chemistry, they should be able to. that's how analogs are developed. and the more analogs we have, the closer we get to developing chemicals that have more positive effects than negative. this is how progress is made.

in the mean time, there will be people who purchase research chemicals for  medical and recreational use. which is in itself research being developed. this is not exactly the intended use, the previous paragraph is. but although this isn't exactly the way the FDA would like for research to be made, it's getting done. people are choosing to use chemicals and then we have experiential data to use for better understanding all of the clinical biological effects/side effects. which in-turn, does help to change which direction the chemistry goes in. depending on how people are reacting to these chemicals, depend on which structural path we continue to pursue.




TL;DR: banning research stops us as humanity from progressing in better understanding neurological  mechanisms, and how to make better medicine. a few cases of abuse of a research chemical DO NOT warrant a ban. this is legislation of morality to please a minority of bad apples. either that or the pharmaceutical industries want to ban a substance to make you pay more for their "legal" molecules, sold to you by a "legal" drug dealer, and are riding the tides of emotional responses to the abusers to aid their cause.


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: Salomon]
    #20634468 - 09/29/14 09:42 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah because we need more benzodiazepine analogues:rolleyes:. They have no place in the natural world. I'm all for free opiates, herbs, kat, kava, kratom, mescaline, psilocybin, even lsd or anything that has a natural counterpart in reality. BUT... benzodiazepines are shit and have ruined more lives in my friend's circle than I even care to think about. I do LOVE how I feel on them.

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InvisibleBlackWidow
Male

Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #20634573 - 09/29/14 10:17 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Banning them is still a bad idea. With the etizolam ban people simply switched from etizolam, which is very well researched, to unknown benzodiazepines with virtually no research.

Look, people are going to use benzodiazepines regardless, let's at least give them access to the safest and most researched ones.

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20634661 - 09/29/14 10:40 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

"Look, people are going to use benzodiazepines regardless, let's at least give them access to the safest and most researched ones."



So why can't you just go into urgent care and get a short term script then? It's easier, quicker, and cheaper than you'd think from overseas sources. You just won't get enough to abuse for longer than a week. 
I have abused valium, Xanax, klonopin, lorazepam, phenazepam, and etizolam. Etizolam was the ONLY one that gave me 4 grand mal seizures and schizophrenic delusions(hearing voices in white noise and seeing people in matter out of place).

If you want to argue it needs to be available in bulk for research, then licensed researchers should be able to give their id and have it verified some way. This would reduce drastically the number of orders going directly to kids and hopeless addicts. The shit is like corporate pharmaceutical mind control leading to slavery. I always felt from the first dose of etizolam that I was consuming something analogous to porta potty blue chemical. I could smell it in the pills and taste it in my body, yet I accepted it as comforting. The fact that it makes normal people do really stupid shit and treat good people like total shit that gets abusers thrown into jail, counseling, and rehab says a lot about the intentions of the companies who produce these drugs.

Edited by passifloracaerulea (09/29/14 10:56 AM)

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OfflinePureless
Crushed it


Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 1,979
Loc: Blueridge
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #20634829 - 09/29/14 11:34 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
"Look, people are going to use benzodiazepines regardless, let's at least give them access to the safest and most researched ones."



So why can't you just go into urgent care and get a short term script then? It's easier, quicker, and cheaper than you'd think from overseas sources. You just won't get enough to abuse for longer than a week. 
I have abused valium, Xanax, klonopin, lorazepam, phenazepam, and etizolam. Etizolam was the ONLY one that gave me 4 grand mal seizures and schizophrenic delusions(hearing voices in white noise and seeing people in matter out of place).

If you want to argue it needs to be available in bulk for research, then licensed researchers should be able to give their id and have it verified some way. This would reduce drastically the number of orders going directly to kids and hopeless addicts. The shit is like corporate pharmaceutical mind control leading to slavery. I always felt from the first dose of etizolam that I was consuming something analogous to porta potty blue chemical. I could smell it in the pills and taste it in my body, yet I accepted it as comforting. The fact that it makes normal people do really stupid shit and treat good people like total shit that gets abusers thrown into jail, counseling, and rehab says a lot about the intentions of the companies who produce these drugs.





the classic, "me and my friends hate/can't handle etizolam so it should be banned!!!111"

again, you're a drug prohibitionist.

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: Pureless]
    #20635361 - 09/29/14 01:48 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

I guess I'm prohibitionist against a group of drugs that are designed to take away all of your rights. I agree they have a place in veterinary medicine, personal prescriptions, and ER settings.

Again you fail to address any actual points I make and throw the blanket statement of "you and friends...".

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InvisibleLegend
RIP Sasha
Male


Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX Flag
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #20638060 - 09/29/14 10:22 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
I'm no teenager. Everyone who I know that has taken the stuff whether addicted or not has thrown them away and calls them poison.
I am extremely self reliant and responsible but it fucked my life for over a year and had to rely on family and friends to get by. It needs to be regulated for sure. When you have a massive stash and using it for true anxiety, it's really easy for you to go from 2mg to 20mg overnight. Of course the nature of the drug lets you accept that fact and procrastinate the addiction until you're completely out.







I'm sorry, but Bull fucking SHIT!


Don't try to claim that a drug "needs" to be regulated, and unavailable to the rest of us, just because YOU cant control yourself with it.


I have one of the most annoyingly addictive personalities on the planet. On-again-off-again issues with opiates for well over a decade. Smoker. Unmedicated ADHD with stimulant-abuse tendencies. MDPV is one of the most compulsive drugs I've ever seen (close cousins like a-pvp not far behind.)  Much worse than even crack. That shit almost killed me. Couple points with binges so long and extreme you might not even believe me, if I detailed it.

I also struggle with depression, anxiety, and other fun stuff like that.

I've taken benzos plenty. But they were never my "drug of choice." I didn't favor them. Didn't like the feel, the high. Euphoria? Barely. More like retrograde amnesia on the light end, and blackout on the heavy end. Real fun. At a couple points, due to life issues, major stress, etc, I had to take benzos regularly for long periods of time. I was prescribed xanax for maybe a year or two when I was younger.



Hell, I once sat on 1.5 grams of phenazepam (pure powder) and made it last for YEARS.


And it was only after taking phenazepam every day, for a period of a couple months (medicinally) that I started to worry that I could be dependent, and so I slowly tapered myself off. Completely without incident. And then went right back to sitting on that shit-ton of benzo doses until the next time I truly needed it, and couldn't cope with life without.


Haven't taken a benzo in ages.


You put some really good, euphoric stimulants in front of me? We might have a problem. Because that's how I'm wired. Which is different' from how you're wired.


Maybe something about etiz makes it a more "moreish" benzo than normal. But nothing I've read seems to indicate this. Just that some people will have a hard time controlling themselves with it and take more than they need, ...just like EVERY other benzo-type medication on the planet. Some people have this same problem with xanax or klonopin. Some people just seem to have this issue with benzos. Sucks, but that's just how it is...



you took the words out of my mouth.


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?

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InvisibleBlackWidow
Male

Registered: 09/25/11
Posts: 2,395
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #20638075 - 09/29/14 10:26 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
"Look, people are going to use benzodiazepines regardless, let's at least give them access to the safest and most researched ones."



So why can't you just go into urgent care and get a short term script then? It's easier, quicker, and cheaper than you'd think from overseas sources. You just won't get enough to abuse for longer than a week. 
I have abused valium, Xanax, klonopin, lorazepam, phenazepam, and etizolam. Etizolam was the ONLY one that gave me 4 grand mal seizures and schizophrenic delusions(hearing voices in white noise and seeing people in matter out of place).

If you want to argue it needs to be available in bulk for research, then licensed researchers should be able to give their id and have it verified some way. This would reduce drastically the number of orders going directly to kids and hopeless addicts. The shit is like corporate pharmaceutical mind control leading to slavery. I always felt from the first dose of etizolam that I was consuming something analogous to porta potty blue chemical. I could smell it in the pills and taste it in my body, yet I accepted it as comforting. The fact that it makes normal people do really stupid shit and treat good people like total shit that gets abusers thrown into jail, counseling, and rehab says a lot about the intentions of the companies who produce these drugs.



Well let's take a look at what prohibiting etizolam has done so far. First, professionally pressed etizolam pills are now non-existant due to seizures from customs. This shortage came drastically and lead many people to have seizures and severe withdrawals. You say go to the doctor? It just so turns out not everyone can afford to shell out $300 for a doctor visit. Most etizolam users simply switched to pure powder. This is too potent for the layman to handle and now we are starting to see the effects of this. People are blacking out and accidentally taking too much. None of this would have happened had the pills never been banned.

Also, how does this drug differ from alcohol? For one, alcohol is much more damaging to the liver. Both have similar withdrawal. Both have a similar mechanism of action. Both cause amnesia at high doses. Both cause impairment of judgment.

Why aren't you rallying for the prohibition of alcohol? You can't have it both ways mate.

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InvisibleLegend
RIP Sasha
Male


Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX Flag
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20638101 - 09/29/14 10:33 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

A benzo and etiz user should educate themselves on the effects, how to use, and dose. They should
have more than one source as well. Because like you said if you dont get yoru package in time you will
w/d.that's being reckless. It happens on the streets too. with xanax. I'd compare etiz use to xanax use.


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: BlackWidow]
    #20638112 - 09/29/14 10:35 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

ah fuck eat your pills then! I didn't ban them. I simply think the situation is dangerous and the people having seizures because of the ban is evidence of this. Nobody should be so addicted that they have seizures when they quit. I was one of those people when they stopped selling the etilaam blister packs by the case last summer. I eventually found a Spanish source for 2mg pink etizolam that got me hooked again and in trouble with the police.

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InvisibleLegend
RIP Sasha
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Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX Flag
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #20638128 - 09/29/14 10:36 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

What are you getting at?


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: Legend]
    #20638140 - 09/29/14 10:37 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Legend said:
A benzo and etiz user should educate themselves on the effects, how to use, and dose. They should
have more than one source as well. Because like you said if you dont get yoru package in time you will
w/d.that's being reckless. It happens on the streets too. with xanax. I'd compare etiz use to xanax use.



Doesn't matter how much you think you are educated or how good of a plan you have for moderation. It always seems like a good idea to take more and deal with everything later. It destroys your ability to reason functionally.

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InvisibleLegend
RIP Sasha
Male


Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX Flag
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea] * 1
    #20638150 - 09/29/14 10:39 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

passifloracaerulea said:
Quote:

Legend said:
A benzo and etiz user should educate themselves on the effects, how to use, and dose. They should
have more than one source as well. Because like you said if you dont get yoru package in time you will
w/d.that's being reckless. It happens on the streets too. with xanax. I'd compare etiz use to xanax use.



Doesn't matter how much you think you are educated or how good of a plan you have for moderation. It always seems like a good idea to take more and deal with everything later. It destroys your ability to reason functionally.



Are you telling me what it does to me, or what it does to you?


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?

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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Posts: 10,485
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: Legend]
    #20638171 - 09/29/14 10:43 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

people in general obviously.

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InvisibleLegend
RIP Sasha
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Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX Flag
Re: Feds Target "Dangerous" Sedative Attracting Teens (etizolam) [Re: passifloracaerulea] * 1
    #20638267 - 09/29/14 11:04 PM (9 years, 5 months ago)

That's a bit too general if you ask me.


--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?

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InvisibleMagicman69
All About the Benjamins
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Re: Feds Target [Re: Legend]
    #20638738 - 09/30/14 03:48 AM (9 years, 5 months ago)

Mixed feelings about this issue. I can see how selling a powerful benzo online to anyone with money is somewhat dangerous. At the same time I don't think any drugs should be illegal for adults. As adults we should be able to choose what goes into our bodies. Selling this online with no verification of age is a bit irresponsible though. In an ideal world all drugs would be legal and sold at a pharmacy for people over 21 years of age.

Edited by Magicman69 (09/30/14 03:57 AM)

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