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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: pretzelking]
    #20502770 - 08/31/14 05:20 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

pretzelking said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

it has to do with stopping Obama from ruling as a dictator





Great, so that makes three people in this thread who dont know the definition of socialism.



:picard:You still can't follow a point.  Obama is a socialist.  He wants to impose socialist policies.  The Constitution prevents that because the President is not a dictator.  Do not for one second conflate what he wants to do with what he can actually do.




:cuteshit: thats all you spew. Obama is not a socialist. Get over it already. His policies are very different from what REAL socialist want to do. Socialism does not equal dictatorship either. Hell even the USSR wasn't even really a socialist country. Lennin actively persecuted the workers collectives and essentially created a state run capitalism. Socialism is when the workers have control not the state or the capital owning class. Maybe you should read up on the Spanish civil war. Have you actually even read any of Karl Marx or Adam Smith? Or do you just spout off talking points that have no bearing on reality?



Read it all long ago junior.  Marx's ideas have done more to enslave people than any other concept in history and Obama is a socialist.  He is just a semi-successful one, not totally.  Obamacare is socialism.  Food stamps are socialism.  Welfare is socialism.  Rent subsidies are socialism.  Medicaid is socialism.  Disproportionate taxation is socialism.  These are all policies he supports


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 7 hours, 50 minutes
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20502804 - 08/31/14 05:29 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

So all governments and all politicians are socialism/socialist.



:themoreyouknow:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20502974 - 08/31/14 06:18 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So all governments and all politicians are socialism/socialist.



:themoreyouknow:



Are you well?  National defense and policing are essential features of any government.  Buying you food and medicine is not.  That is socialism.


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Offlinepretzelking
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Registered: 03/19/13
Posts: 77
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20505615 - 09/01/14 11:17 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You are right zappa about Marxism leading to great wrongs and injustices during the 20th century. That's why I believe Mikhail Bakunin had it right.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica Flag
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20509664 - 09/02/14 09:12 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So all governments and all politicians are socialism/socialist.



:themoreyouknow:



Are you well?  National defense and policing are essential features of any government.  Buying you food and medicine is not.  That is socialism.




Yep.

And every government does more than those two, and every politician advocates more than those two.


How are you feeling?


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20509678 - 09/02/14 09:17 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So all governments and all politicians are socialism/socialist.



:themoreyouknow:



Are you well?  National defense and policing are essential features of any government.  Buying you food and medicine is not.  That is socialism.






And every government does more than those two, and every politician advocates more than those two.







So what we must return government to its proper role.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica Flag
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #20509692 - 09/02/14 09:23 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

So what?

So anything beyond a police state isn't socialism.


"The proper role of government" is whatever the citizens of that nation decide.


The wealthiest and healthiest and most educated nations decide that socialism is working pretty well for them.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20509696 - 09/02/14 09:25 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So what?

So anything beyond a police state isn't socialism.


"The proper role of government" is whatever the citizens of that nation decide.


The wealthiest and healthiest and most educated nations decide that socialism is working pretty well for them.



Comparing the US to Europe is ridiculous. A country like France is incredibly different than a diverse nation of 300 million people.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 7 hours, 50 minutes
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #20509842 - 09/02/14 10:25 AM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So what?

So anything beyond a police state isn't socialism.


"The proper role of government" is whatever the citizens of that nation decide.


The wealthiest and healthiest and most educated nations decide that socialism is working pretty well for them.



Comparing the US to Europe is ridiculous. A country like France is incredibly different than a diverse nation of 300 million people.




I'm not comparing anything. I'm trying to define socialism for Zappa because he doesn't know what it is, and seemingly applies every facet of government he doesn't agree with as part of it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20510619 - 09/02/14 03:00 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So what?  So anything beyond a police state isn't socialism.


  Who said anything about a police state.  Socialism is closer to a police state than what we have.
Quote:




"The proper role of government" is whatever the citizens of that nation decide.


  Not in this country.  That is why we have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights because the founders were well aware of the threat that the tyranny of the majority presented.
Quote:




The wealthiest and healthiest and most educated nations decide that socialism is working pretty well for them.




Actually no.  They are finding the cost out now.  It takes a while for it to kill an economy but kill it does.  Every time.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica Flag
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20511064 - 09/02/14 04:54 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

You've proven multiple times in this thread alone your opinion is based on falsehoods.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20511072 - 09/02/14 04:55 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 7 hours, 50 minutes
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #20511080 - 09/02/14 04:57 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.



Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.




Thankfully we can call consitutional conventions and legislate amendments when the population decides what they want it's laws to be.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20511131 - 09/02/14 05:07 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.



Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.




Thankfully we can call consitutional conventions and legislate amendments when the population decides what they want it's laws to be.



Thankfully we are not a democracy were just any old crazy populist idea can be put into law. I have faith obamacare will soon be repealed and the insanity of the democrats slowed with the next administration.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20511221 - 09/02/14 05:25 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.



Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.




Thankfully we can call consitutional conventions and legislate amendments when the population decides what they want it's laws to be.



Knock yourself out.  If you think a proportion of the population large enough to get an amendment passed agrees with you on anything you are more deluded than even I thought.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #20511263 - 09/02/14 05:40 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

I still don't see how obamacare is socialist.  A bad idea, maybe...but socialist?  I don't see it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #20511266 - 09/02/14 05:42 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.



Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Thankfully we have the constitution to keep in check dangerous populist polices.




Thankfully we can call consitutional conventions and legislate amendments when the population decides what they want it's laws to be.




Even more thankfully, the people can't agree on jack-shit so even if there is a second constitutional convention, it's likely nothing will get done. And in the off chance something does, your howls will be sweet music.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: Enlil]
    #20511272 - 09/02/14 05:44 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I still don't see how obamacare is socialist.  A bad idea, maybe...but socialist?  I don't see it.



The very idea of forcing a citizen to buy a product is socialist. Let the people choose!


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: Gilgamesh18] * 1
    #20511274 - 09/02/14 05:45 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Socialism isn't about forcing people to buy anything, though.  It is about the state owning and controlling the means of production.  How does Obamacare transfer the ownership and/or control of a means of production to the state?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: California Agriculture Labor Relations Board Fucks Over Union Workers.. [Re: Enlil]
    #20511277 - 09/02/14 05:46 PM (9 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I still don't see how obamacare is socialist.  A bad idea, maybe...but socialist?  I don't see it.



The vast expansion of medicare/ medicaid and massive taxpayer subsidies for insurance based on income.  Not socialist?  Are you fucking joking?


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