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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Best timing to FC a bulk tray (no casing) ?
#19853529 - 04/16/14 11:47 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hi all, (i had wrote "semi-bulk tray" in the subject and editted it to "bulk tray" to use better terms)
My question is in the subject, wanted to make it short and sweet.
So no casing (rye grain spawned to coir/verm @ 1:2 ratio) Semi bulk because about 3.5 Liters of sub total, in one tray/tub
To be FC'ed in an SGFC (transfered to fruiting conditions, introducing Fresh air exchange etc)
------- What is the best time to make the transfer? When the entire tray is colonized? What if the myc has broken through the surface in 10% of the area but everywhere else it is 1/2" away? Would you wait or FC right away?
Thanks
------ Just added 4/17, this fellow shroomerite is running into the exact same dilema as me at the exact same time, maybe a day earlier... Here is his post with a good picture: http://www.shroomery.org/12994/To-fruit-or-not-to-fruit
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
Edited by jpack666 (04/18/14 06:23 PM)
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19853589 - 04/16/14 12:07 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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how is that semi bulk? Spawn + bulk substrate = bulk even if it's the size of a PF cake.
if you're not casing you let it get to 100% just like everything else. If you apply a casing layer at 100% then let the casing layer get to ~30% then fruit it.
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19853720 - 04/16/14 12:33 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks bodhisatta.
(I don't know what semi bulk means, thought my tray was so big it looked like a tub more than anything so I used that term, thanks for pointing that out, seems like semi-bulk means nothing, makes sens lol)
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19853763 - 04/16/14 12:41 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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I knew where you were coming from but wanted to point it out.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist
Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,083
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19854731 - 04/16/14 03:25 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, just fruit it at 100%. I'd really case it though.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19854750 - 04/16/14 03:29 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: Yeah, just fruit it at 100%. I'd really case it though.
this! i find trays do much better with a casing layer in a sgfc, they get alot more fae then most set ups
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: cronicr]
#19855911 - 04/16/14 06:53 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, casing is really a tough thing to decide not to do. I'm not sure I fully grasp the pros and cons. If I were to do it I'd use PC'd 50/50 peat/verm and maybe add a bit of crushed oyster shells, I know it would work, but I'm not sure what's the point... i'm just a newb...
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist
Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,083
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19855933 - 04/16/14 06:56 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you use peat, you always have to pH balance with lime or oyster shell or something. It's very acidic and will contam if you don't.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19855981 - 04/16/14 07:02 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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you could always case with just verm or coir or coir and verm or buy jiffy mix which has peat and the lime already mixed in.
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19856090 - 04/16/14 07:23 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: you could always case with just verm or coir or coir and verm or buy jiffy mix which has peat and the lime already mixed in.
The way i spawned the rye to coir/verm was that the top 1" was only coir/verm and the spawn was mixed with coir/verm beneath this. So my bulk receipe for the surface is the same as that prescribed casing. This is why I'm confused as to if I should treat the surface as a casing an fruit it at 30%... i've seen people do both.... But coir is nutritious so it can't really be referred to as a casing... Hence more confusion... (A lot of people refer to it as a casing - and according to those terms, my tray would already be "cased").
That's the funny part: based on how people define a casing, my tray could fit the description of a "cased tray" for some and be the opposite for others... ??!!
Quote:
36fuckin5 said: If you use peat, you always have to pH balance with lime or oyster shell or something. It's very acidic and will contam if you don't.
Thanks for the heads up!
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
Edited by jpack666 (04/16/14 07:24 PM)
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19856109 - 04/16/14 07:26 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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yea coir is a non-traditional casing layer. You blink and the shroomery changes. Coir is just now starting to be though of as a substrate and a casing material weird stuff but casings are not well understood to begin with.
Usually when you do a CVG(coir verm gypsum) bulk substrate you mix the spawn evenly and then optionally add a 1/4 layer of just CVG to the top to protect exposed grains(RR thinks this is very important) but most of us skip that top frosting layer and everything is A-OK, using a inch thick frosting layer is going to take forever to colonize so you're going to be 14 days down the road and saying WTF how come this isn't at 100% yet, but it's like a pseudo casing. Casing layers are added once your bulk sub is already at 100% they work better that way for whatever reason. So you're somewhere in the middle so perhaps fruit when you see about 50% myc showing through the top.
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19856214 - 04/16/14 07:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: yea coir is a non-traditional casing layer. You blink and the shroomery changes. Coir is just now starting to be though of as a substrate and a casing material weird stuff but casings are not well understood to begin with.
Usually when you do a CVG(coir verm gypsum) bulk substrate you mix the spawn evenly and then optionally add a 1/4 layer of just CVG to the top to protect exposed grains(RR thinks this is very important) but most of us skip that top frosting layer and everything is A-OK, using a inch thick frosting layer is going to take forever to colonize so you're going to be 14 days down the road and saying WTF how come this isn't at 100% yet, but it's like a pseudo casing. Casing layers are added once your bulk sub is already at 100% they work better that way for whatever reason. So you're somewhere in the middle so perhaps fruit when you see about 50% myc showing through the top.
You understand what spot I'm in very well.... You're right about the slowness, i'm still under 7 days though so I'm not too worried but true, that extra layer does not colonize as fast as the bottom at all.
I'll keep your input in mind, hoping it reaches 50% without being too uneven (then we'd be having an overlay v not-overlay discussion haha)
Thanks again
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19856267 - 04/16/14 07:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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yep, ive been there. I was just like well I'll make my casing layer part of my bulk substrate by making the frosting layer extra thick. It's still going to work in the end but it's going to take a little longer. You could always try to brush some of the top off by tilting it sideways and seeing what just falls off loosely but I probably wouldn't bother.
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19858288 - 04/17/14 01:52 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey I found this post about someone having the same question about the same situation, except there is a picture.
POST W/PICTURE
Hoping this contributes to the thread, board, him, me, whatever.
Cheers
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld
Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19858485 - 04/17/14 03:20 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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MushroomWizard420
mycological magician
Registered: 04/03/14
Posts: 307
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19858534 - 04/17/14 03:50 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah, casing is really a tough thing to decide not to do. I'm not sure I fully grasp the pros and cons. If I were to do it I'd use PC'd 50/50 peat/verm and maybe add a bit of crushed oyster shells, I know it would work, but I'm not sure what's the point... i'm just a newb...
casing layer isn't really necessary and most people don't use one until they have some bulk experience, and if they do try it early its usually a replica of the substrate they used to spawn their grains to.
if i'm not mistaken peat/verm 50/50 has additional protection from contams and moisture retention if i'm not mistaken. but like someone said earlier you absolutely have to balance the pH of the peat unless the bag explicitly says otherwise, and getting strips or a probe isn't a bad idea so you can test the casing's pH to make sure it will resist bacterial growth.
RR also talks about throwing in things like blood meal (for nitrogen), gypsum (calcium sulfate), and some other goodies, but i'm not fuckin with that stuff until i feel like i've really mastered the "traditional" 50/50+
hope some of that helped. and if i made any stupid mistakes just correct them and call me stupid. its 430am here and i just finished cramming for my last psych exam so me and mary jane are enjoying some well-earned relaxation
-------------------- "And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good." -Shroomesis 4:20 MushroomWizard420 The spirit of the forest watches over his children as they grow...
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: MushroomWizard420]
#19859702 - 04/17/14 12:33 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomWizard420 said:
Quote:
Yeah, casing is really a tough thing to decide not to do. I'm not sure I fully grasp the pros and cons. If I were to do it I'd use PC'd 50/50 peat/verm and maybe add a bit of crushed oyster shells, I know it would work, but I'm not sure what's the point... i'm just a newb...
casing layer isn't really necessary and most people don't use one until they have some bulk experience, and if they do try it early its usually a replica of the substrate they used to spawn their grains to.
if i'm not mistaken peat/verm 50/50 has additional protection from contams and moisture retention if i'm not mistaken. but like someone said earlier you absolutely have to balance the pH of the peat unless the bag explicitly says otherwise, and getting strips or a probe isn't a bad idea so you can test the casing's pH to make sure it will resist bacterial growth.
RR also talks about throwing in things like blood meal (for nitrogen), gypsum (calcium sulfate), and some other goodies, but i'm not fuckin with that stuff until i feel like i've really mastered the "traditional" 50/50+
hope some of that helped. and if i made any stupid mistakes just correct them and call me stupid. its 430am here and i just finished cramming for my last psych exam so me and mary jane are enjoying some well-earned relaxation
Well for someone relaxing after a hard day's work your make very good posts. You said "casing layer isn't really necessary and most people don't use one until they have some bulk experience, and if they do try it early its usually a replica of the substrate they used to spawn their grains to." and this is where I am so it helps me and I'm sure a lot of other people here can relate to your input.
Thanks and good luck on your exam, my girl was also craming for her last exam last night, good luck to everyone in exams sessions these days...
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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MushroomWizard420
mycological magician
Registered: 04/03/14
Posts: 307
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19860453 - 04/17/14 03:18 PM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanks and good luck on your exam, my girl was also craming for her last exam last night, good luck to everyone in exams sessions these days...
haha its that season, and shroom seasons around the corner
glad i could help, mary jane seems to be very inspirational for me.
ps. i made that exam my bitch
-------------------- "And on the last day, God purchased RogerRabbit's DVD set, and learned to grow mushrooms. And it was good." -Shroomesis 4:20 MushroomWizard420 The spirit of the forest watches over his children as they grow...
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19864698 - 04/18/14 10:13 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: yep, ive been there. I was just like well I'll make my casing layer part of my bulk substrate by making the frosting layer extra thick. It's still going to work in the end but it's going to take a little longer. You could always try to brush some of the top off by tilting it sideways and seeing what just falls off loosely but I probably wouldn't bother.
50%+ now... But wow still hesitating. It's just not enough of an even spread for my peace or mind. And the closer I get to 100%, the more I wonder how significant the impact of not casing it would be... i mean, even if it were to just be 1/2" of verm....
People asking about coir these days, so I'm hoping people can relate to the pics they should see sooon, but no pics if I fuck up ok? Deal lol
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Best timing to FC a semi-bulk tray (no casing) ? [Re: jpack666]
#19864716 - 04/18/14 10:19 AM (9 years, 11 months ago) |
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Casing works awesome but for some unknown reason you can't apply them when you spawn. you apply them when the substrate gets to 100%. you'll be fine though like I said I did something very similar to what you did in the past and it worked out in the end.
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