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Offlinecli_hlt
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Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips
    #19523773 - 02/05/14 07:20 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Hi fellow shroomerites,

I recently managed to grow some Psilocybe cubensis B+ on an unusual subtrate: wood chip blocks.

The applied technique and a few pictures are below:

  • First I inoculated a few agar plates in an SAB
  • Transferred once to an other set of plates
  • Inoculated grain in SAB
  • Inoculated wood substrate
  • Fruited in a tent I've built


The substrate contained the following:

  • Wood fuel blocks ~1 Kg
  • Water ~1.2 Kg
  • Two teaspoons of gypsum
  • One teaspoon of CaCO3 (calcium carbonate, lime)
  • A dash of KMnO4 (potassium permanganate)


I use KMnO4 because fungi need manganese in order to be able to process cellulose (I get the idea from one of Stamets' books), and I don't know if there's enough of it in the substrate. Never tried without it, maybe I'll experiment with it next time.

The substrate is placed into an electronic oven for several hours (or overnight) at about 90°C (194°F). A single course of pasteurization worked OK for me.

I used 200g dry grain for 1Kg of dry wood to inoculate, so this has to be counted as supplementation. I not only use this amount of grain to supplement the wood, but to haste colonization to avoid contamination, which is always a problem is colonization takes too long.

Here is the fruiting chamber (similar to a martha, but no active FAE/humidizer):



On the top shelf you can see three blocks of cubes, the others are oysters. The either don't like the substrate or the temperature (much too high for them), they don't do very well at all (same substrate).

Humidity is between 75% and 85%, temperature is between 22°C (71.6°F) and 23°C (73.4°F).

I let the blocks consolidate for about two weeks, at that point they already started to grow a few pins.

This is an older experiment:



After this I read at several places how hard (impossible?) to grow cubes on wood, so I was confused to say the least, and decided to do some more experiments.

These are the recent results:





I used different wood fuel blocks for the two experiments (old and recent), but the general preparation was the same.

Dat caps:



Single flush from two of the three bags, dry, 26 grams:



Prints:



I expect about 100 grams dry or 1 Kg fresh yield for 1 Kg dry wood (2.2 Kg wet), and 200 grams of dry grain for the spawn (About 500 grams when wet and ), that's about 1.0 / 1.2 * 100 ~= 83% BE.

Unfortunately I was dumb, and did not measure the substrate. I used one wood block, and measured other blocks after they were already colonized. The blocks weigth is unfortunately pretty random, so allow for about 20% up or down.

There's an other batch in the queue, I'll make precise measurements that time, and also try to figure out if the KMnO4 has anything to do with the yields (or the success for that matter).

UPDATE

As RR and others suggested below, consistently with other previous experiments, this experiment suggests that Psilocybe cubensis doesn't do well on sawdust / wood chips if they are (almost) not supplemented.

I did the other experiment and the results were much worse than the above.

The first experiment (above) used considerable amount of spawn, contributing remarkably to the substrate composition. Results were good.

The second experiment used less spawn to reduce the effect of the rye on the substrate. As mentioned, results were much worse.

Some numbers:

I prepared 4 bags.

Group 1, with KMnO4: (1a, 1b): split half:

919g wood brickette,
1 teaspoon CaSO4,
2 teaspoons CaCO3,
0.02g KMnSO4,
1700g (64.9%) water

Group 2, no KMnO4: (2a, 2b): split half:

939g wood brickette,
1 teaspoon CaSO4,
2 teaspoons CaCO3,
NO KMnO4,
1740g (64.9%) water

Spawn: 411 wet, abt. 200g dry.

Bag weights:

1a: 1266g
1b: 1219g
2a: 1301g
2b: 1369g

The colonization went slowly, two of the bags eventually succumbed to green mold (1b and 2a).

Flushes:

F1: 235g wet
F2: 96g wet

After this, no fruits for a long time, they are either drained completely, or just taking too much time to fruit again. Experiment aborted.

Net weight of dry material: ~ 1880g / 2, (two of them got mould) = 
Net weight of fresh harvested fruit bodies: 331g

BE: 35% - BAAAAD.

Even twice of this would be bad.


Edited by cli_hlt (07/13/14 04:25 PM)


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OnlineMustardTiger66
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: cli_hlt]
    #19523828 - 02/05/14 07:59 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

This is impressive :thumbup:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: MustardTiger66]
    #19524003 - 02/05/14 09:31 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

They were fruiting from the grains.  The sawdust may have served as a casing layer, but didn't contribute to the grow.
RR


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OnlineMustardTiger66
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19524074 - 02/05/14 10:00 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

26 dry grams from 2 quarts of  grains and no addition of a bulk sub? Are these what one would expect from just fruiting from grain spawn?


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: MustardTiger66]
    #19524161 - 02/05/14 10:31 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Is it possible that lignin might be present in the fruits because of the wood?


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OfflineSgt. Pepper
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: blojo02184]
    #19524175 - 02/05/14 10:34 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Very nice:thumbup:


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: MustardTiger66]
    #19524192 - 02/05/14 10:41 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

MustardTiger66 said:
26 dry grams from 2 quarts of  grains and no addition of a bulk sub? Are these what one would expect from just fruiting from grain spawn?



if not more. two quarts of grain spawn with an appropriate bulk substrate in a 1:1 ratio which would be less substrate than the OP used as wood instead would get you more like 50-75g.

I hope those caps you're holding in your hands are not the ones you printed with, even though prints are never 100% clean it's still not a wonderful idea to put them gill side down on your hand.


Edited by bodhisatta (02/05/14 10:42 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19524207 - 02/05/14 10:45 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Well the op's fruits were from the grain, not the wood. An ounce of dry mushrooms off two quarts of spawn and nothing more just seemed high.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: MustardTiger66]
    #19524234 - 02/05/14 10:52 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

They were fruiting from the grains.  The sawdust may have served as a casing layer, but didn't contribute to the grow.




Quote:

26 dry grams from 2 quarts of  grains and no addition of a bulk sub? Are these what one would expect from just fruiting from grain spawn?




Yupp, this is why I'd like to make exact measurements next time.

When they done fruiting, I'll check the wood if there's some kind of decomposition.

If we considering only the grains: 200g dry grains and 1Kg fresh fruits: that would be 500% BE.

One of the following must be true:

  • When cubes fruit from wheat grains, they can reach 500% BE.
  • They can use at least a bit of the wood chips.


Either of these would be interesting.

I tend to believe in the second version though. Cubes can fruit on coconut fibers and straw - lots of cellulose (and lignin with coco). So - I think - P.c. has to have the ability to digest cellulose. (I don't think (actually I am as sure as one can be that) they can't digest lignin, since the leftover coconut is still brown, Psilocybe cubensis don't cause white rot.)

Others tried wood with more or less success:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6353820

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4422565

So let's see what comes out of this experiment, and maybe from the next. (I may try adding some extra nitrogen too, to see the effects on the yields.)


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19524237 - 02/05/14 10:53 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I hope those caps you're holding in your hands are not the ones you printed with, even though prints are never 100% clean it's still not a wonderful idea to put them gill side down on your hand.




Yes, the are, but AFTER printing. :smile:


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: cli_hlt]
    #19524243 - 02/05/14 10:54 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

where did you come up with a kilogram of fresh fruits. that's 100g dry fruits.

26g dry 260g fresh

After printing :thumbup:


Edited by bodhisatta (02/05/14 10:55 AM)


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: MustardTiger66]
    #19524245 - 02/05/14 10:55 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

MustardTiger66 said:
Well the op's fruits were from the grain, not the wood. An ounce of dry mushrooms off two quarts of spawn and nothing more just seemed high.




That is just a single flush from two of the three bags.

I already have slightly more that 80 grams dry from this experiment.

And yes, they are potent. :wink:


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: cli_hlt]
    #19524286 - 02/05/14 11:06 AM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Just be careful using wood with cubes.
I believe people can lose control of their limbs if they consume too much lignin.


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: blojo02184]
    #19525145 - 02/05/14 02:11 PM (9 months, 9 days ago)

Coconut fiber is loaded with lignin. If that would be a serious threat, we would have heard of it by now.

Based on this, I think that it's not a problem.

Also, all human experiments showed the lack of this symptom. :smile:


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: cli_hlt]
    #19525162 - 02/05/14 02:15 PM (9 months, 9 days ago)

I might be thinking of wood lovers.
I think the article was talking about edibles also.


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: blojo02184]
    #19526426 - 02/05/14 06:26 PM (9 months, 8 days ago)

An interesting experiment would be to inoculate your wood substrate with a liquid culture of P. cubensis.


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: inski]
    #19526448 - 02/05/14 06:31 PM (9 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

inski said:
An interesting experiment would be to inoculate your wood substrate with a liquid culture of P. cubensis.



it's been done a bunch, you don't get good yields, you get small fruits too, cubes are known not to be wood decomposes, and guess what they hardly decompose the wood. They'll colonize the wood just fine, maybe a bit slow, but that's about it.


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19528672 - 02/06/14 03:36 AM (9 months, 8 days ago)

The other experiment is on it's way. Two batches of wood is in the oven. Weights are precisely recorded. One batch with KMnO4, one without it.

I'm still perplexed by the fact that cubes supposed to do fine on coconut fibre, but supposed to do shitty on wood.

Any explanation for this? pH? Consistency? Trace elements? Water holding capacity? I'm willing to test a few ideas.


Edited by cli_hlt (02/06/14 03:45 AM)


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Re: Psilocybe cubensis B+ on wood chips [Re: cli_hlt]
    #20267062 - 07/13/14 04:27 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

I posted an update.

TL;DR: the second experiment did not go well, unsupplemented sawdust is a really bad substrate indeed.


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