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Offlinesker
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Reuse BRF cake
    #19486076 - 01/28/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

SWIM is wondering, is it possible to mix a heat sterilized solution kept sterile at 1% H2O2 levels and like 1.5% honey, (feel free to correct these measurements) to rejuvenate cakes, of course done after fruiting begins and not done on a daily basis. SWIM got the idea based off of liquid cultures. Is it possible, probable, or a good idea.
Another idea is using the sterile cake to inoculate a larger one i.e. if SWIM had a half pint and buried it or set it in a gallon large cake (most likely going to be Dixie-cups to half pints, SWIM is just wondering if it has any plausibility limitations) SWIM knows the effort of keeping large grows. This seems to be an easier method of cloning and SWIM is wondering why there are no articles that he can find online

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InvisibleGimpCollector
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19486114 - 01/28/14 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We ususally Soak our cakes after each flush. BRF cakes can only give so much before they are tired and busted, and contaminated.

I've successfully cut a thin quarter inch puck off a BRF cake and popped it into other BRF jars and had it colonizethe rest of the jar. The problem with that is you have to skip the dry verm layer, which is your dry zone and protects the brf from contaminates.

Your best bet, follow the BRF tek learn how everything goes, then switch to grains. BRF was never intended as a bulk substrate tek...at all.

Welcome, Oh I'm sure someone will flame you for using "SWIM" so put your protective undies on (Flame resident)

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19486134 - 01/28/14 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sker said:
SWIM is wondering, is it possible to mix a heat sterilized solution kept sterile at 1% H2O2 levels and like 1.5% honey, (feel free to correct these measurements) to rejuvenate cakes, of course done after fruiting begins and not done on a daily basis. SWIM got the idea based off of liquid cultures. Is it possible, probable, or a good idea.
Another idea is using the sterile cake to inoculate a larger one i.e. if SWIM had a half pint and buried it or set it in a gallon large cake (most likely going to be Dixie-cups to half pints, SWIM is just wondering if it has any plausibility limitations) SWIM knows the effort of keeping large grows. This seems to be an easier method of cloning and SWIM is wondering why there are no articles that he can find online



:facepalm:

There's nothing sterile about a 1% h2o2 solution, do yourself a favor throw the bottle of h2o2 away. Or keep it in your bathroom

Honey is nutritious, If you pour honey on a cake it's going to mold and turn to shit before the mycelium ever eats it for it's own use. Besides the h2o2 would also harm/kill your good mycelium...

The large cake would stall and there's no way you're keeping all that sterile, you'll have a hard enough time doing agar work and petri dishes when you first start out and that's easier to do in a sterile environment ala in a SAB or infront of a FH.

You're not going to find any articles about how to do something wrong, and a lot of active species are not experimented on because of laws. Search edible mushrooms to find information like that.

Cloning is the easier method of what you want to do.

A Justice system sees SWIM and interprets it as "someone who is me"
:shrug:
now what do you do?

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/28/14 12:58 PM)

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InvisibleGimpCollector
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19486153 - 01/28/14 01:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's hard enough for Tall jars to colonize, let alone a 1 gallon pickle jar.

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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19486202 - 01/28/14 01:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

A Justice system sees SWIM and interprets it as "someone who is me"
:shrug:
now what do you do?




:rofl2: I never thought of that haha that will make you think twice about using that term again!


--------------------
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InvisibleGimpCollector
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: DannyDGAF]
    #19486231 - 01/28/14 01:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DannyDGAF said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:

A Justice system sees SWIM and interprets it as "someone who is me"
:shrug:
now what do you do?




:rofl2: I never thought of that haha that will make you think twice about using that term again!




It's not like the NSA hasn't logged every one of your keystrokes yet. Lot of sites require you to say SWIM, shroomery is more evolved.

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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: GimpCollector]
    #19486240 - 01/28/14 01:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:goodluckwiththat2:


--------------------
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Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: DannyDGAF]
    #19486242 - 01/28/14 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is the reason I love this site more than any other.


--------------------
"You tell him, and I will smack you. I will smack you like a bad, bad donkey!"


Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


"In order to use your head, you have to go out of your mind" -  Tim Leary

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Offlinesker
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19493633 - 01/29/14 08:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just to let you know, swim is my goldfishes name... 'cause he swim so much.
I remember reading a few articles a few months back stating that h2o2 concentrations of either .3 or .03% (pretty sure its the latter) notably increased mycelial growth, concentrations over that posed a probability of limiting growths. At that low of a percent can inhibit mycelial growth, with mycelium possessing as much catalase as they do as a multi-cellular organism. Thanks for the 'put though:cool:

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19493672 - 01/29/14 08:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Forgot to add the second part of the last part of that statement, but anything that can inhibit growth at that percentage, while being processed to O2, something that definitely increases cellular activity, a still concentration of 1% h2o2 is highly likely to kill any organisms (or life stages) that do not produce catalase. such organisms are: all bacteria and spores that are the contaminants. all while increasing growth of multicellular catalase producing life forms ie the mycelium (or if you really suck with shrooms a bacterial colony, but if you have a colony growing you should really use less augar)

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InvisibleFungal growth
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19493679 - 01/29/14 08:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No one believes your goldfish is growing mushrooms.
And,
What you're proposing (famous 'noob failure' tek) here is a terrible idea.

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: Fungal growth]
    #19494065 - 01/29/14 10:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you need to use h2o2 to kill bacteria you're already doing wrong since there shouldn't be anything h2o2 can kill in a position where you can even use the h2o2 at all anyway.

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Offlinesker
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19495179 - 01/30/14 06:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yo dude, don't knock on swimmy swim, he got PvsMP on his waterproof whiteboard, he smart.
the peroxide is used not to remove bacteria, but instead, it is used to keep bacteria and rival spores from colonizing the cake (though a fully colonized [yes, this late] cake is not probable to get infected, but the h2o2 is something that doesn't hurt and can help quite a bit)
could you please tell me why this is the "famous noob tek" because I am pretty sure that if there was fame to be associated with this extraordinarily stupid tek then it would have at least... 4 threads, with this topic. I also took the liberty of checking the similar threads and there were quite a few with similar ideas, but to my knowledge this is the most a-famous tek to my knowledge. On a final note on the H2O2 try googling stuff along the lines of 'H2O2 mushroom growth' and you should find quite a few articles that state that H2O2 sterilization is a good substitute for a pressure cooker, of course in sterile concentrations you need to put in a catalase to make the H2O2 habitable.

I feel I didn't explain this in the right way ealier, this tek is a combination of liquid culture and BRF PF tek. The grower would create a liquid culture to nourish the solid culture because it can diffuse nutrients throughout the substrate. If, for some archaic reason, you believe that low level H2O2 is bad because of the fact it is O2 and water that is created when it gets near the mycelium from catalase metabolizing the harmful substance into toxic o2 fumes that everyone with a brain knows is the most toxic substance on earth. and that's great, I did research on this topic already, Old tek is replaced extremely fast w/ shrooms, don't believe me, look at some of the ridiculous stuff they used to say. :tongue2: Don't hate what you do not know, sir, that is arrogance

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19495278 - 01/30/14 07:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the only thing h2o2 is good for, is killing cobweb, and keeping mold from growing in your humidifier... in my experience. I,ve read and experimented with this too. I tried cloning to agar.  one dunked in diluted h2o2. one done normally. no contams on h202 plate. but the growth rate was very, very slow. I transferred away from contams and colonized the regular clone plate. before the other came close to colonizing. I think its a waste of time. mycelium hates h202 imho...:bigblunt:


--------------------
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InvisibleFungal growth
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bluecap]
    #19495304 - 01/30/14 07:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hey OP, have you used this method before?
Im guessing the reason you cant find any info on it is because it doesn't work.
However, if you do it PLEASE write it up with pics so we can see it. Make us doubters a workable tek we can recreate. Even if we are right and it fails, it will help put the matter to rest on h2o2 teks.
People rarely post up thier failures, lol. It would actually be helpful.

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OfflineL1ss3rd
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19495606 - 01/30/14 09:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sker said:
yo dude, don't knock on swimmy swim, he got PvsMP on his waterproof whiteboard, he smart.
the peroxide is used not to remove bacteria, but instead, it is used to keep bacteria and rival spores from colonizing the cake (though a fully colonized [yes, this late] cake is not probable to get infected, but the h2o2 is something that doesn't hurt and can help quite a bit)
could you please tell me why this is the "famous noob tek" because I am pretty sure that if there was fame to be associated with this extraordinarily stupid tek then it would have at least... 4 threads, with this topic. I also took the liberty of checking the similar threads and there were quite a few with similar ideas, but to my knowledge this is the most a-famous tek to my knowledge. On a final note on the H2O2 try googling stuff along the lines of 'H2O2 mushroom growth' and you should find quite a few articles that state that H2O2 sterilization is a good substitute for a pressure cooker, of course in sterile concentrations you need to put in a catalase to make the H2O2 habitable.

I feel I didn't explain this in the right way ealier, this tek is a combination of liquid culture and BRF PF tek. The grower would create a liquid culture to nourish the solid culture because it can diffuse nutrients throughout the substrate. If, for some archaic reason, you believe that low level H2O2 is bad because of the fact it is O2 and water that is created when it gets near the mycelium from catalase metabolizing the harmful substance into toxic o2 fumes that everyone with a brain knows is the most toxic substance on earth. and that's great, I did research on this topic already, Old tek is replaced extremely fast w/ shrooms, don't believe me, look at some of the ridiculous stuff they used to say. :tongue2: Don't hate what you do not know, sir, that is arrogance



Why would you even start a tread asking what people think of you're idea if you already made up you're mind that it is in fact a good idea?
These guys probably have some more experience under their belt than you and I together.
Why don't you just try it out and make a thread about you're progress and prove them wrong.
I guess if one could really drop the cost of a descent pressure cooker they would already have found it and would have posted there knowledge on this board.
I would be thankful that we have a place where you can come whit our questions and appreciate al the input and feedback you can get.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19495636 - 01/30/14 09:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sker said:
yo dude, don't knock on swimmy swim, he got PvsMP on his waterproof whiteboard, he smart.
the peroxide is used not to remove bacteria, but instead, it is used to keep bacteria and rival spores from colonizing the cake (though a fully colonized [yes, this late] cake is not probable to get infected, but the h2o2 is something that doesn't hurt and can help quite a bit)
could you please tell me why this is the "famous noob tek" because I am pretty sure that if there was fame to be associated with this extraordinarily stupid tek then it would have at least... 4 threads, with this topic. I also took the liberty of checking the similar threads and there were quite a few with similar ideas, but to my knowledge this is the most a-famous tek to my knowledge. On a final note on the H2O2 try googling stuff along the lines of 'H2O2 mushroom growth' and you should find quite a few articles that state that H2O2 sterilization is a good substitute for a pressure cooker, of course in sterile concentrations you need to put in a catalase to make the H2O2 habitable.

I feel I didn't explain this in the right way ealier, this tek is a combination of liquid culture and BRF PF tek. The grower would create a liquid culture to nourish the solid culture because it can diffuse nutrients throughout the substrate. If, for some archaic reason, you believe that low level H2O2 is bad because of the fact it is O2 and water that is created when it gets near the mycelium from catalase metabolizing the harmful substance into toxic o2 fumes that everyone with a brain knows is the most toxic substance on earth. and that's great, I did research on this topic already, Old tek is replaced extremely fast w/ shrooms, don't believe me, look at some of the ridiculous stuff they used to say. :tongue2: Don't hate what you do not know, sir, that is arrogance



do you believe everything you read?
The stuff you found is archaic...
If you had your mind made up why did you bother making a thread to tell us then...
Go ahead and do it, and don't take our collective experience.
Your research is 5th grader level, enjoy your just getting by, failure by most other peoples books harvest.

by the way there's no more h2o2 left after a few hours anyway it decomposes readily in light, movement from its original container, and heat.

Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/30/14 09:54 AM)

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Offlinesker
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19495759 - 01/30/14 10:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you Fungal growth, I hope to randomly come upon some pictures and tests in the near future.
I have started this thread for no other reason than that I would like to get first hand experience wondering if one of those failures that may have been to timed to post a thread on it would be like "hey dude, I tried this once it doesn't work" so thank you Bluecap, your post was very helpful
I do indeed believe what I read when it is on NCBI and has several scientific studies that I highly doubt are false because once again, NCBI.
However due to the fact that the substrate retains water the calculations that NCBI reported would have to be altered, I was wondering if anyone had any experience playing w/ the ratios, the data was another purpose of this THREAD, a tread is on a tank.

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19495780 - 01/30/14 10:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I highly doubt the NCBI has info on h2o2 interactions with P.Cube mycelium. If anything h2o2 + mycelium in an article on the NCBI is likely about bio-remediation and the effects h2o2 has on the environment to make the fungi able to digest it let alone being a completely different species of fungi.

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InvisibleFungal growth
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19495940 - 01/30/14 11:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Do you have links to the info your referencing?
It sounds like you've studied up a bit.

Edited by Fungal growth (01/30/14 11:11 AM)

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Offlinesker
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: Fungal growth]
    #19496423 - 01/30/14 01:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Man I have been looking, the government must have hidden them because they recognized the potential for people like us, but the peroxide is negligible, I just was thinking that putting a high nutrient substrate on your mushrooms might not be a good idea unless you were to create a clean room that also allowed gas exchange, for metabolism of the high nutrient substrate that creates nutrient stores in the body of the fungus that only the Psillo can use without risk due to contaminants that go into the solution. The H2O2 resistance that multi-cellular organisms have in comparison to the microbial contaminants makes a H2O2 fungi threshold solution that is at levels that inhibit single cell growth an ideal alternative that is much simpler and easy on the pockets, all this feedback is on the H2O2, none of it is on the plausibility of the experiment, the idea that the substrate can be nourished into a substrate that can produce massive amounts of shrooms without having to deal with the duration of growing the mycelium, increasing the yield per substrate and who doesn't love that. :aweohyou:

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19496516 - 01/30/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sker said:
YOU (not SWIM) are wondering, is it possible to mix a heat sterilized solution kept sterile at 1% H2O2 levels and like 1.5% honey, (feel free to correct these measurements) to rejuvenate cakes, of course done after fruiting begins and not done on a daily basis. SWIM got the idea based off of liquid cultures. Is it possible, probable, or a good idea.




Give it a shot. The worst it can do is contam. H202 kills spores it's not 100% guarantee against contams. An LC left in unsterile environments will contam quickly even if there is a drop of H2O2 in it.

If you try it on a spent cake dunk it in your mix for 24 hours and then at least wash off the outside of the cake with water.

Give it a shot. The worst it can do is fail. If nothing else it'll make an interesting thread.

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: sker]
    #19496575 - 01/30/14 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sker said:
Another idea is using the sterile cake to inoculate a larger one i.e. if SWIM had a half pint and buried it or set it in a gallon large cake.



Don't spawn to bulk with a spent cake unless you care very little of whether it succeeds, such as dropping it in the garden with a little coir on top. Save the trouble for spawning with fresh cakes.

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: vikingsc]
    #19496623 - 01/30/14 02:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just bury spent cakes outdoors in a manure pile in a garden or flowerbed.  Adding nutes to spent cakes is asking for green molds.  It's not just the substrate that's spent, it's the mycelium.
RR

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InvisibleFungal growth
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: vikingsc]
    #19496628 - 01/30/14 02:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The colonized block of any given substrate is a single organism that has reached sexual maturity when it fruits. I dont think the myc can eat another meal and make more fruits.
More myc would still have to grow and metabolize. It would also have to outrun anything that has landed on the surface which will have had a head start.

Ps- the government stolee my shoestrings last week, so i believe you.

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: Fungal growth]
    #19496868 - 01/30/14 02:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I heard something on NCBI,... I bet 90% of the people here couldn't read any article on there and articulate it back to me. I cant even read half of them and I have a background in multiple disciplines bio/chem/neuro half of the articles you can only read the abstract anyway. I luckily still have two sets of credentials that allow my to assess most of the full articles as PDFs for free, or have them scanned by a library and sent to me. I didn't find anything useful about h2o2 and mycelium that would have anything that could transfer over to this kind of mush cultivation.

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19497021 - 01/30/14 03:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I heard something on NCBI,... I bet 90% of the people here couldn't read any article on there and articulate it back to me. I cant even read half of them and I have a background in multiple disciplines bio/chem/neuro half of the articles you can only read the abstract anyway. I luckily still have two sets of credentials that allow my to assess most of the full articles as PDFs for free, or have them scanned by a library and sent to me. I didn't find anything useful about h2o2 and mycelium that would have anything that could transfer over to this kind of mush cultivation.




I KNEW you were MENSA!

:thumbup:

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: GimpCollector]
    #19497238 - 01/30/14 03:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

A Justice system sees SWIM and interprets it as "someone who is me"



And it interprets "microscopy" as cultivation :lol:


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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: Kizzle]
    #19497269 - 01/30/14 03:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Long story short - Don't bother saying "SWIM"

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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: Fungal growth]
    #19498037 - 01/30/14 06:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Fungal growth said:

Ps- the government stolee my shoestrings last week, so i believe you.




The system has stolen many of my shoe strings too.  Damn bastards.  I bet they are making a huge nuclear ball of yarn with all of them...


--------------------
"You tell him, and I will smack you. I will smack you like a bad, bad donkey!"


Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


"In order to use your head, you have to go out of your mind" -  Tim Leary

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Reuse BRF cake [Re: GimpCollector]
    #19498900 - 01/30/14 09:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GimpCollector said:
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I heard something on NCBI,... I bet 90% of the people here couldn't read any article on there and articulate it back to me. I cant even read half of them and I have a background in multiple disciplines bio/chem/neuro half of the articles you can only read the abstract anyway. I luckily still have two sets of credentials that allow my to assess most of the full articles as PDFs for free, or have them scanned by a library and sent to me. I didn't find anything useful about h2o2 and mycelium that would have anything that could transfer over to this kind of mush cultivation.




I KNEW you were MENSA!

:thumbup:




I'm so mensa that I wouldn't pay for a mensa membership :eek:

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