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Amazon Shop for: Paul Stamets

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OfflineJot
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Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation
    #19370833 - 01/05/14 01:50 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

Hey people. I've been reading mycelium running by Paul Stamets; in the book he outlines a pretty interesting method of remedying radioactive toxins in our environment. I've since done some research and found this document by him. http://sierrapermaculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/stamets-fallout-mycoremediation.pdf
It's pretty cool; documenting Paul Stamets' opinion on what we should be doing to help the situation in Japan. Something our governments seem to be overlooking.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Jot]
    #19371170 - 01/05/14 03:58 AM (10 months, 10 days ago)

My thoughts are that there are problems with the practicality of the plan, and there could be unintended consequences.

The mushrooms that extract radiation from the soil are mycorrhizal, so it would be 20 to 30 years before the first fruit bodies appear because they have to grow the trees first. Usually when people plant mycorrhizal mushrooms outside, the mushrooms never appear.

The mushrooms would only clean the soil in the spots that the mycelium colonized. Mushrooms are very patchy, and the planted mycelium would be competing with hundreds of other native species that do not concentrate radiation. They would clean up spots of radioactivity here and there, where they happen to fruit, but leave much radiation untouched.

If animals ate some of the mushrooms before the people with radiation suits could pick them, the radiation would enter the food chain. Radioactive animals would distribute the radiation, which is probably worse than leaving it underground. Maybe intentionally putting mushrooms that concentrate radiation in contaminated areas is not a good idea - The mushrooms would keep coming up for as long as the trees live - in 200 years the mushrooms would continue to bring long buried radioactive elements to the surface in a form that animals find attractive to eat.

Dirt blocks radiation, the last thing they need is mushrooms bringing radioactive elements up to the surface. If no one picks the radioactive mushrooms, then you have just moved radiation from a safer place to a more dangerous place. And of course it is impossible to pick 100% of the mushrooms in a given forest.

Also, at which stage should the mushrooms be picked? If they are picked as small as possible, you won't be removing much radiation. If you let them grow to maturity, animals will eat a good percentage of them, spreading contamination into uncontaminated areas.


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OfflineJot
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19371304 - 01/05/14 05:38 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

So then that leaves us with a question... Is it better to just sit on it and wait until either the world figures it out on its own; possibly avoiding some unforeseen consequences? Or to take actions to remedy the situation; potentially mucking it up even more?
Also, I would wonder if the radiation wouldn't enter the food system anyways, considering the proximity to the reactors, not to mention that isn't it almost a sure thing that some fungi native to the area would accumulate Cesium to some extent; thus entering the food chain? I've read that a lot of melanin containing mushrooms use radiation to create some type of chemical energy for grown, I believe they're called radiotrophic fungi. Also even if the cesium did enter the food chain, it has a half life of 30 years, so it would dissipate eventually; maybe the fungi would even speed up the process a bit.
It's a big cluster trunk of what ifs haha.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Jot]
    #19371876 - 01/05/14 11:08 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Fungi does not speed up the process of radioactive elements decaying - it just moves the radiation around.

I think it is best to leave radioactive contamination where it is, or perhaps bury it further.  One reason is that soil stops radioactive particles, another reason is that mushrooms would do a very patchy job of cleaning it up.  I don't see what good it does to clean a few patches of a forest.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Alan Rockefeller] * 1
    #19371882 - 01/05/14 11:12 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Mushrooms fix everything and anything.  Didn't you know? :pope:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Icelander]
    #19371921 - 01/05/14 11:23 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Mushrooms fix everything and anything.  Didn't you know?





I bought Mycelium Running and I used to believe that.  However in the last few years, I have been having doubts.

It seems to me that using mushrooms to solve environmental problems is usually a slow, extremely expensive and energy intensive solution.

Oil spill cleanup is a good example - Yes, oyster mushrooms can eat oil.  But how much oil do you have to burn to make the spawn to eat a little bit of oil?  Also the oil gets naturally broken down by native fungi without people even having to do anything.  Seems like a whole lot of work to clean up a tiny bit of oil.

The biofilter stuff is interesting, but really, how important is it to filter streams?  Also you need to keep adding fresh spawn pretty often, so it does not seem practical...

I really can't think of any problems that can be solved by mushrooms that can not be solved more quickly, easily and efficiently some other way.  But if anyone can think of a way to use mushrooms to save the world, I am totally open to suggestions.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19372341 - 01/05/14 01:02 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

If you take enough you can save the world.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Icelander]
    #19373368 - 01/05/14 04:54 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Mushrooms fix everything and anything.  Didn't you know? :pope:



This is a corollary to the "weed cures everything" theory, right?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Enlil]
    #19373531 - 01/05/14 05:41 PM (10 months, 9 days ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Jot]
    #19375181 - 01/06/14 12:44 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

A quick word from Paul about ‪#‎Fukushima‬ and/or exposure to other radiation sources and edible mushrooms: "The levels are 100 times below what is considered ‪#‎life‬ threatening here on the west coast of North America. However the levels are compounding and could elevate to a level of concern over the next few years, if the leaking reactors are not contained, especially in fish high on the food chain. ‪#‎Mushrooms‬ react to radioactivity in two ways. One is to concentrate radioactive fallout, such as Cesium 137. But melanizing ‪#‎fungi‬ can convert ionizing ‪#‎radiation‬ into, if you can believe it, heat using their melanin. By studying darkly pigmented fungi's tolerance and reaction to deadly radiation, many new discoveries are opening before us " Here is a link for more info: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/lifeforms-can-clean-up-radiation-naturally.html

Was just about to post this in the other thread but noticed this one.


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OfflineJot
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19375541 - 01/06/14 03:36 AM (10 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
A quick word from Paul about ‪#‎Fukushima‬ and/or exposure to other radiation sources and edible mushrooms: "The levels are 100 times below what is considered ‪#‎life‬ threatening here on the west coast of North America. However the levels are compounding and could elevate to a level of concern over the next few years, if the leaking reactors are not contained, especially in fish high on the food chain. ‪#‎Mushrooms‬ react to radioactivity in two ways. One is to concentrate radioactive fallout, such as Cesium 137. But melanizing ‪#‎fungi‬ can convert ionizing ‪#‎radiation‬ into, if you can believe it, heat using their melanin. By studying darkly pigmented fungi's tolerance and reaction to deadly radiation, many new discoveries are opening before us " Here is a link for more info: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/lifeforms-can-clean-up-radiation-naturally.html

Was just about to post this in the other thread but noticed this one.




That's what I'm saying. Maybe we can't do much for Japan at this point. But here on the west coast we can start prepping to overcome the buildup of radiation that is and has been coming for quite some time... In my opinion it's better than sitting and watching; waiting for something to come along and fix it for us. And when it comes to the costs.. I mean really what else do we spend our tax dollars on? http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/30-stupid-things-the-governemnt-is-spending-money-on

Furthermore, preparation for the tons of radiation compounding on the west coast could not only aid in saving our sorry hides; but with the potential use of primary decomposers such as P. cyan or even some tasteful edibles, many mushroom fanatics would have a hay day in future years. All the while increasing bio diversity.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Jot]
    #19376953 - 01/06/14 01:38 PM (10 months, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Jot said:
That's what I'm saying. Maybe we can't do much for Japan at this point. But here on the west coast we can start prepping to overcome the buildup of radiation that is and has been coming for quite some time...

Furthermore, preparation for the tons of radiation compounding on the west coast could not only aid in saving our sorry hides; but with the potential use of primary decomposers such as P. cyan or even some tasteful edibles, many mushroom fanatics would have a hay day in future years. All the while increasing bio diversity.





What kind of preparations are you suggesting, and how would primary decomposers have any effect on radiation?


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19377249 - 01/06/14 03:29 PM (10 months, 8 days ago)

I wasn't saying we do anything.  I  was just saying, nature has its own ways.  Here is todays continuation from Paul.

"Again.... the problem is compounding and if the radioactive leaks are not stopped, there will be increasing concentrations, and some plumes will pollute the food chains, especially proximate to Fukushima or areas impacted by concentrated streams. It is good people are concerned - they should and must be - but this is an unfolding disaster, with few good options in sight, and becomes more problematic every day.

I concur with David Suzuki on this

http://ecowatch.com/2013/10/09/fukushima-radiation-safe-to-eat-fish/

It takes one generation to pollute - and many generations to clean it up. My father was a nuclear scientist/engineer and we argued many times about the danger of nuclear waste. He conceded that the storage of nuclear waste could be a ticking time-bomb if we could not contain it, especially the long lived radionucleotides.

We owe it to future generations to be ecologically rationale. Fukushima is not the last nuclear power plant to crash. And I think the argument that nuclear power is the solution to offset global warming is inherently flawed if we do not find a solution to these types of disasters and the spent fuel.

We are doing experiments with Lawrence Livermore Labs on the feasibility of up-channelling Cesium 134 (safer for the lab tests) from the soil into the mushrooms. A quirk of nature is that mushrooms are very high in potassium, up to 5+%, and some mushrooms can substitute cesium for potassium, metabolically. The concept here is to remove cesium from the top few inches of soil, the mycelium will up-channel to cesium into the fruitbodies, thus decontaminating the soil without having to discard it - yet another ecological disaster. The mushrooms are then sequestered, and the problem is reduced (not solved) by several orders of magnitude. The research is on-going, and species-specificity is one of many factors. (Some species hyperaccumulate cesium better than others.)

Be aware, keep informed, be skeptical, and read the research. We are on this Earthship together. We need a new ecological/economic metric that places value on the long term consequences inflicted by those whose motivations are short term and solely profit driven. I think investing in nature, rich in solutions which have tested over millions of years, is the first place to look for answers. This is deeply personal to me: Nature speaks to us - will we listen ? I am trying to."

- Paul Stamets


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19377325 - 01/06/14 03:48 PM (10 months, 8 days ago)

I hear what Alan says about the mushrooms consolidating it. Bringing it up  recontaminating the surface.  No way we could collect them all. 
Do the mushrooms take it into the bio mass?  Is it concentrated in fruit bodies? Is it more like lichens and fungi we don't eat?  Are they mycorrhizal species we don't ever see?  Do the host trees take up the radiation from the fungi?  I'm thinking fungi like honey mushrooms, that cover 100's of acres.  Just because they are huge, live for ever and we don't always eat them though some love them.

I want to know how does the radiation get sequestered?


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OfflineJot
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19377491 - 01/06/14 04:26 PM (10 months, 8 days ago)

Well Alan, I'm no expert to be honest.. But the brown 'Caramel Caps' like P. Cyan and others I would imagine produce Melanin. I tried finding out if this is true through google but didn't find anything helpful. Anyways.. Assuming they do, they could convert radiation into heat, and thus reduce our radiation problem. Not only that but melanin producing species that hyper accumulate cesium could be used to gather radiation and reduce it.. At least to some extent.
Yes the cesium hyper accumulators are mycorrhizal and would take years to start fruiting, but it's going to take years for the radiation to build to dangerous levels isn't it?  I just wonder what the problem in at least trying to prepare is?


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Offlinekuntryman
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: Jot]
    #19393117 - 01/09/14 12:57 PM (10 months, 5 days ago)

I fear radiation is misunderstood on a fundamental level as something that belongs here naturally, if it did why is there such a violent reaction taking place. My theory is every time we split an atom we open a portal and in the short time that portal is opened, imagine popping a balloon underwater.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: kuntryman]
    #19393285 - 01/09/14 01:31 PM (10 months, 5 days ago)

Don't worry, be happy. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: kuntryman] * 1
    #19393328 - 01/09/14 01:39 PM (10 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

kuntryman said:
I fear radiation is misunderstood on a fundamental level as something that belongs here naturally,



"Belongs" here?  What does that even mean?


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Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: kuntryman]
    #19399710 - 01/10/14 05:35 PM (10 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

kuntryman said:
I fear radiation is misunderstood on a fundamental level as something that belongs here naturally



I fear radiation is misunderstood as something that is not natural
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2011/jul/19/radioactive-decay-accounts-for-half-of-earths-heat


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Offlinekuntryman
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Re: Fukushima/Paul Stamets; Radiation Mycoremediation [Re: psyconaught]
    #19404908 - 01/11/14 07:32 PM (10 months, 3 days ago)

Your article is talking about natural radioactive minerals, this is where lines get blurred. I'm talking about things that aren't even in physics books. Every element after plutonium is "man made". leave your stickmen in the other thread, Lil enoyance


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Amazon Shop for: Paul Stamets

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