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InvisibleIcelander
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The Ultimate surrender.
    #19217382 - 12/02/13 03:50 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

What is it?


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217385 - 12/02/13 03:50 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Death?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: teknix]
    #19217397 - 12/02/13 03:53 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

I'm asking you?  What would it be for you?


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217405 - 12/02/13 03:55 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Why are you asking?

I don't know about ultimate, but death seems to be the closet to fathomable one, what about you?


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: teknix] * 2
    #19217419 - 12/02/13 03:58 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Surrender to what, or who .... ?


--------------------
Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge.Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm.Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear.Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs.Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque.Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm.Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real.Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul.Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming.Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be.Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: teknix]
    #19217429 - 12/02/13 04:00 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Why are you asking?

I don't know about ultimate, but death seems to be the closet to fathomable one, what about you?





I'm asking to find out if there are better answers than I have or ones I haven't thought of.

I of course think it's death of the personality structure/physical body.


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217436 - 12/02/13 04:02 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Or you're baiting someone to say "God".

:tongue:


Edited by teknix (12/02/13 04:10 PM)


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217447 - 12/02/13 04:06 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Surrender to another might be scopolamine, (in their proximety)? Removing ones free will..

Surrender to the spirits might be a deleriant maybe? Or dmt? I havent tried this myself though, so I do not know..

Surrender to fate might be to drop all fear, and do risky things.. like climbing mount. Everest or something, without safety ect...


--------------------
Blessed are the Madmen, for they hold the keys to secret knowledge.Blessed are the Phobic, always wary of that which would do them harm.Blessed are the Obsessed, for their courses are clear.Blessed are the Addicts, may they quench the thirst that never ebbs.Blessed are the Murderous, for they have found beauty in the grotesque.Blessed are the Firelovers, for their hearts are always warm.Blessed are the Artists, for in their hands the impossible is made real.Blessed are the Musicians, for in their ears they hear the music of the soul.Blessed are the Sleepless, as they bask in wakeful dreaming.Blessed are the Visionaries, for their eyes see what might be.Blessed are the Painlovers, for in their suffering, we grow stronger.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: teknix]
    #19217483 - 12/02/13 04:16 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Or you're baiting someone to say "God".

:tongue:





No I'm not bateing.  Serious query.


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #19217571 - 12/02/13 04:37 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

surrender absolutely all of your cash to me and you will know what ultimate surrender is


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #19217687 - 12/02/13 05:05 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

You couldn't handle that kind of power. :nono:


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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Offlineabsols
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19217696 - 12/02/13 05:06 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

it is the most horrifying thing ..

like being forced to give yourself to what hates you the most, as only that cant be sharing any base with you to let you be alone at a point

and only the most disgusting one would ask others to give themselves

in truth it is impossible, any is alone, objectively that is always how reality exist, any is individually only, while there is a relative way objectively through life, common positive wills, and subjectively through true present free superior realizations out of own self..

in truth we do not surrender to what is better or truly superior... we just stop being or meaning when all is objectively there
in truth, there is no wills.. existence is a fact that need a lot, for constancy of true free being realizations and realities

unfortunately, evil is much bigger then truth

that is how it can force true existence to its reverse.. it sounds absurd but it is happening

like true things cannot be seen anymore, they are forced to be through invisible suffer and infinite reactions ...


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Offliner72rock
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217839 - 12/02/13 05:38 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

I'd say it's to surrender to the finitude of life and that most of life is out of one's control. To surrender to the fact that life is pain and suffering, and that one'll get hurt in the future. I used to search for something that would "save me" from future pain, whether it be loss or extreme physical pain, but now I think surrendering to the fact that life is pain and that I WILL get hurt later on down the road is the ultimate surrender. Life's out of my control, so I'll try my best to be kind to myself and others. To have the courage to surrender to suffering. Much easier said than done though, I know I'm far from that myself.

It's like surrendering to the idea that humans are super fragile. And I think though that we can come to appreciate how fragile we are in this hostile existence, and accept that life has forces that are beyond our control. They aren't necessarily super natural forces (maybe there are) but they're things at play that humans may never understand.


--------------------
Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217896 - 12/02/13 05:53 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

How about...
Ultimate surrender is to surrender to oneself ?!


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19217985 - 12/02/13 06:15 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What is it?




infinite regress


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #19217986 - 12/02/13 06:15 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

how about it is just some poetic thing a tripper has alluded to as part of his passage
anything to get laid
you know.
I don't recommend anything ultimate or absolute


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: r72rock]
    #19218134 - 12/02/13 06:40 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

r72rock said:
I'd say it's to surrender to the finitude of life and that most of life is out of one's control. To surrender to the fact that life is pain and suffering, and that one'll get hurt in the future. I used to search for something that would "save me" from future pain, whether it be loss or extreme physical pain, but now I think surrendering to the fact that life is pain and that I WILL get hurt later on down the road is the ultimate surrender. Life's out of my control, so I'll try my best to be kind to myself and others. To have the courage to surrender to suffering. Much easier said than done though, I know I'm far from that myself.

It's like surrendering to the idea that humans are super fragile. And I think though that we can come to appreciate how fragile we are in this hostile existence, and accept that life has forces that are beyond our control. They aren't necessarily super natural forces (maybe there are) but they're things at play that humans may never understand.





Very  insightful post imo.  I seem to be at that pain and suffering point and it's not down the road anymore. I'm old, it's here. :jimmorrison:


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19218137 - 12/02/13 06:40 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What is it?




Having a kid, worse than death.


--------------------
Another day of leisure


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19218152 - 12/02/13 06:43 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

I always felt that way myself.  Not just for me either.  Any kid with me for a father.... well lets just say they wouldn't deserve any of it.


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: The Ultimate surrender. [Re: Icelander]
    #19218184 - 12/02/13 06:53 PM (4 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I always felt that way myself.  Not just for me either.  Any kid with me for a father.... well lets just say they wouldn't deserve any of it.




They'd get beat on occasion and wouldn't see any cartoons or be exposed to the whole "kiddy" culture, but overall I'd rather be raised by an asshole like myself than the average human.



--------------------
Another day of leisure


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