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InvisibleStickyIcky Fingers
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Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 178
Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19614212 - 02/24/14 09:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

pins on mine went down to the sides when the casing was dry. Try taking a spray bottle to your's doing that got fruits back on the top with my containers

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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19614852 - 02/24/14 11:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

J. Jack Flash said:
ok, violet.  here's the best i've gotten so far.  still side pinning like crazy, but the tops finally started fruiting, too. 



not as good as yours, mosey.  looks great.

so violet, i was reading an ancient thread by fahtster about late casing bulk tubs.  something about light not just being a trigger, but triggering specifically where there's exposure.  so i wondered if covering the outsides of the cups in something opaque and exposing tops to light and air to trigger pins, then casing would be worth a shot. like maybe can coozies or something.




It looks like you didn't give the casing layer a chance to colonize at all.  If you look at Violets containers they are heavily colonized on the surface.

I wasn't patient enough either, but I figured I should share my first pinning on my first successful containers.  These are Mexicube strain either inoculated on 1-10 or 1-12 using various sectors that had been isolated 2 or 3 rounds on agar, so still pretty MS, but with ok growth characteristics.  They are fruiting in a mini mono and only the top right one has no pins so far.  So they haven't exactly been the fastest growers.  Mainly I was waiting for them to colonize the casing. They did that VERY slowly.  They went full colonization of the brown rice in 16 to 20 days, I then let them consolidate for another 7-10 days before casing, and they have been sitting with casing for over 18 days now.  Any input would be appreciated.  Oh and I so far have only 2 side pins despite not packing these down.  Also the casing was sterilized and not pasteurized or done via Violets Microwave method.  I have more jars that used violet's microwave method coming.



--------------------
My Growth So Far!

Edited by BigGreenMat (02/24/14 11:48 PM)

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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: BigGreenMat] * 1
    #19614963 - 02/25/14 12:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, stickyicky, that's interesting.  these were going down the side when the tops were damp, dry, and everything in between.  only bothers me cause i wonder how much it affects the outcome.  no worries, tho.  it's all fun and games.

i read:
Quote:

Mycelium will almost always colonize the casing layer a bit before pinning so they can be set in the fruiting chamber to do this or you can have them spend part of this casing colonization time under a loosely cracked lid.


and thought it meant
Quote:

case and put in the shotty.




so that's what i did.  they started pinning almost immediately.  i just looked and saw i noc'd em on 1/5.  don't recall when they were 100% but i feel like they consolidated for two weeks before i cased.  so yours are doing just about the same.  mine were straight up multispore, tho, no thinning of the genetics at all.  i guess that explains it.  good work.  post updates when the flush is ready to pick.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along

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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19615018 - 02/25/14 12:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I think the original write up might have said that, but I think it has been amended and Violet prefers to let the casing layer colonize with a tight lid now.  At least that is what I remember reading most recently on her grow log.

See here http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19414571


--------------------
My Growth So Far!

Edited by BigGreenMat (02/25/14 01:02 AM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #19615328 - 02/25/14 04:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

something about light not just being a trigger, but triggering specifically where there's exposure.




Light anywhere on a substrate will help to trigger pinning anywhere else on the substrate conditions are right.  However, light is only a secondary pinning trigger.  Light becomes far more important after pinning to get the best growth and finish weight.

A casing layer should at least partly colonize if it's going to do any good.  Many growers let them get to 80% or so, while others expose to fruiting as soon as the mycelium shows up on the surface.  Experiment with your strains to see what works best.
RR


--------------------
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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19615694 - 02/25/14 08:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

very enlightening.  thanks all.  learning is fun.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #19615779 - 02/25/14 09:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BigGreenMat said:
Yeah, I think the original write up might have said that, but I think it has been amended and Violet prefers to let the casing layer colonize with a tight lid now.  At least that is what I remember reading most recently on her grow log.



Correct!

Someday soon I intend to go thru these tek posts and update them with newer photos and details like those.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
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Offlineenraged
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: Violet]
    #19627202 - 02/27/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

like this tek:) book marking

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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: enraged]
    #19865850 - 04/18/14 02:24 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)



still just a cup of shrooms.


Everyone that's done both this and bulk...........
:pleasetellmemore:

Like em or hate them my opinion on PP5 cup TEK V-tek a-tek or cased grains in cups

Violet wants the cups to consolidate just like PF cakes after 100%
Bulk sub takes some time to re-colonize 7-10 days

Same time taken here but likely bulk sub colonizes faster than the minimum recommended consolidation time, All the while the bulk sub colonizes it's also eating the grain more (hence consolidation while it recolonizes) so I would rather have water given during the consolidation period.

then you have these little cups when I could just prep one big cup.

Coir is cheap, BE is a dumb measure of productivity and efficiency no matter how you misconstrue it. If you don't understand that then :shrug: do some grows both way and see which one you end up keeping around.

Like I just said two flushes vs 5+ flushes for yield.

If I ever did pp5 cups again I would just colonize grain spawn then pour it into pp5 cups with a bulk substrate in open air so the pp5 cup never gets pressure cooked they colonize in the pp5 cup and then get a casing. :shrug: mini bulk substrate more of a novetly, even with the improvement it still is just a small ass bulk substrate grow. without the improvement it's just cased grains, obviously the BE would be higher since you're using only grains only high nutrition substrate (violet left the casing layer out of her BE calculations too :facepalm:) but we don't add bulk substrate because we care about BE obviously BE goes down but we get more yield per effort and money so that slightly lowered BE is made up for by a really cheap easy bulk substrate.

I just use 6 quart shoe boxes they're BIG pp5 cups.

I can add grains AND a bulk substrate AND case it rather than just cased grains,

It's rectangular so they actually fit more substrate into a fruiting chamber more efficiently and they hold water better giving you most of your yield on the first 2 flushes rather than spread out among 5+ flushes.

:thumbup:

and in my experience it's less workload and less hassle.



Edited by Trusted cuItivator (04/18/14 10:33 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19869785 - 04/19/14 09:09 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Violet wants the cups to consolidate just like PF cakes after 100%
Bulk sub takes some time to re-colonize 7-10 days

Same time taken here but likely bulk sub colonizes faster than the minimum recommended consolidation time, All the while the bulk sub colonizes it's also eating the grain more (hence consolidation while it recolonizes) so I would rather have water given during the consolidation period.



Lately I've come to realize that large whole grains like rice - in fact, especially rice - need that much colonization or perhaps even a little more for top-notch results and potency,
but grass seed seems to have consolidation-quality results much more quickly.  At least with my culture-tech found selected genes for sure.
I attribute that to the lightness and spread of the weight over more space and much greater surface area, with None of the food's mass being deep withing grains, opposed to Most of it being deep within most/all other grains.

In short, I haven only been having grass seed cakes consolidate 2-4 days before casing, and by the time the pins form on that casing they appear to have had more than enough chew time.

So your mindsets of sticking to mentalisms and "rules-of-thumb" don't apply that well to the infinite variability of the grow.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
then you have these little cups when I could just prep one big cup.



Don't forget your dozens of thick, heavy, fragile, harder-to-clean quart glass jars.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Coir is cheap,



and more expensive than the grains, with little yield power of its own, being mainly for the purpose of supplying water, which watering can do WITHOUT a more expensive material, and an extra massive stage of heat-treatment and colonization.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
BE is a dumb measure of productivity and efficiency no matter how you misconstrue it. If you don't understand that then :shrug:



You must not understand BE as well as you apparently think.
For a given grow method, BE is THE measure of optimization success.

A high number in one method doesn't make it better than another, sure.
250% BE of cased watered grain cakes isn't better than 150% BE in bulk substrate if the actual yield of both is the same.
That's why I use "BE-per-grains" (considering only the grains as the original substrate) when comparing this straight-grain technique to bulk substrate techniques, so that I can show the yields per the heart material alone.
This not only makes for a fair comparison, but even better shows how little the bulk substrate helps as a necessity.

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
do some grows both way and see which one you end up keeping around.



I have :hehehe:


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
(violet left the casing layer out of her BE calculations too :facepalm:)



It's pretty lame how you like to cherry-pick trivial points of other people's arguments, while ignoring that those arguments were deflated or refuted entirely.
Quote:

Since they're not substrate, not being edible to the mushrooms as "food" per se hence a casing material, I feel it's more than fair to not add them in to BE.
But even if I DID add them in to BE, they wouldn't throw off the numbers very much at all. Not nearly what whole bricks of coir and bags of verm do.  That's undeniable cherry-picking.




--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: Violet]
    #21081590 - 01/07/15 09:25 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Look, I was gonna go easy on you and not to hurt your feelings
But I'm only going to get this one chance
Something's wrong, I can feel it
Just a feeling I've got, like something's about to happen, but I don't know what
If that means, what I think it means, we're in trouble, big trouble,
And if he is as bananas as you say, I'm not taking any chances
You were just what the doctor ordered





Pictures are on the way.  :uptosomething:

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: blackdust]
    #21081609 - 01/07/15 09:29 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

wtf
apparently you're bumping my thread with rap lyrics
wtf


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisiblewowimflabbergasted
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Re: Biological efficiency & Yield [Re: Violet]
    #21081612 - 01/07/15 09:30 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid::dudewtf:


--------------------
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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
    #21113980 - 01/13/15 12:58 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Im from the UK Violet and its really hard to get Peat.  What casing recipe would you suggest for me? 

I found a container with the code PP5 and thought it might just work.

Have you tried growing Pans like this and what recipe would you suggest for this?

Oh and the containers are snap on so I though I would drill a small hole and stuff it with polyfil......Thoughts?

Edited by Edmunter (01/13/15 01:04 PM)

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Edmunter]
    #21115745 - 01/13/15 05:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I don't like peat and don't recommend it.
In the tek I show using sifted potting soil. The lower the proportion of peat, the better. We use the fine bits that make it thru the sifter, or that stick to themselves in the bottom of a bowl that's tossed around. 

I haven't tried it with Pans, as I don't have any Pan genes. Some others have though and have success both with straight grass seed as well as seed mixed with manure-based bulk subs.

If you can't find screw top containers like the ziplocs then pop tops can made to work.  I don't like modifying lids like that because the health of the top mycelium is the most important and those kinds of filters CAN promote surface drying, especially for such a small container and sub.

Good luck!  Let us know how it goes, and I hope you keep a look out for some strong cultures!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #21115783 - 01/13/15 05:26 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
strong cultures!





Yes!

I'm looking for speed in mine. For the scrub pads of course. I got the multi-color pack at Family Dollar and I think they are the same as you use!

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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: "Violet tek" & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: blackdust]
    #21118515 - 01/14/15 12:19 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackdust said:
Quote:

Violet said:
strong cultures!





Yes!

I'm looking for speed in mine. For the scrub pads of course. I got the multi-color pack at Family Dollar and I think they are the same as you use!




Im doing some isolating atm, but will clone some when I get some healthy fruits.  Im trying the grain slurry method to see if it can outrun the contamination but was unsure as to how blended I should make it.

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Edmunter]
    #21166856 - 01/23/15 10:28 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Refreshed this tek a little bit by making the container & lidding portion uniform with my other teks,  clarifying and expanding upon the consolidation section,  explained casing and its use for different sub choices for this tek, and removed a bunch of pointless clutter from the BE & yield section.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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OfflineEdmunter
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Re: V-tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Violet]
    #21210562 - 02/01/15 11:18 AM (9 years, 1 month ago)

What colonisation percentage of the casing have you had best results with?

Mine looks like this and Im thinking of fruiting tomorrow.



Im growing cubensis

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InvisibleViolet
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Re: V-tek & Easy Casing layers • Growing from watered whole grains in screw-lid plastics [Re: Edmunter]
    #21210915 - 02/01/15 01:02 PM (9 years, 1 month ago)

I always put into fruiting somewhere around 80/95/100% colonized.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts

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