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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale.
    #1915358 - 09/14/03 02:27 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

What is the best way to extract a large amount of LSA from 2000 HBWR seeds?

What method works best?


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Papaver [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1915428 - 09/14/03 02:48 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)



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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: ]
    #1915732 - 09/14/03 04:55 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

How safe is this?


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1915782 - 09/14/03 05:24 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

pretty safe when both the solvents you use evaporate completely.

If you're not sure about how 'clean' your acetone or alcohol is you can pour some in a petridish or glass oven dish and let it evaporate. if you see nothing left in the bottom there's nothing to worry about.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: stefan]
    #1916224 - 09/14/03 08:13 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


if you see nothing left in the bottom there's nothing to worry about.




i get upset every time i hear this. it is not valid. even a .04% impurity can be dangerous depending on what the impurity is.


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Invisibletheshiftingwalls
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: canid]
    #1916262 - 09/14/03 08:30 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Where do I get pure solvents?


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Offlinecanid
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1916477 - 09/14/03 09:52 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

pure solvents require some kind of permit in most parts of the world.
what you have to do is find something that is known to be consistently dafe enough for your purposes.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: canid]
    #1917439 - 09/15/03 06:35 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


i get upset every time i hear this. it is not valid. even a .04% impurity can be dangerous depending on what the impurity is.




ofcoarse I'm not talking about avaporating 10 ml or something, but way more!
with more you could easily see an impurity of 0,04%. lets say you would still evaporate a pretty small amount, like 100 ml. and lets say this weighs a 100g. 0.04% is still 40mg and you could easily see that. The more you evaporate the better you can see if everything evaporates.

A better thing to do is buy your chems at a pharmacy, they have pure things. (at least here in The Netherlands)


--------------------
click for my music                  First release!   
</a>             
        smooth chillout dub        Tales of the Green Dragon EP
prog psy and livesets                                       


older music: ambient and psydub


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: stefan]
    #1919438 - 09/15/03 09:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)


Quote:


How safe is this?






Lets see. As long as you dont light a match, and do this as far from any 'open' electronics as possible....you should be ok.



I'm surprised nobody brought that up.



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~Happy sailing~


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Invisiblepsyphon
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: theshiftingwalls]
    #1924256 - 09/17/03 05:08 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Here's an idea. It's just an idea, I'm not totally sure it would work, but if I understand the theory behind it, it should. I need to learn some more organic chemistry...

Anyway, here's the idea. Instead of using a non-polar solvent, which is probably the hardest to get in a pure form, use a basified alcohol. In the online extraction docs they refer to alcohol as the polar solvent but I belive that alcohols are actually semi-polar, so that by basifying an alcohol and using that as our wash solution, we can make it more likely to pull out the toxins and less likely to pull out the amides. Do a couple of washes and allow the solution to filter through your material. You might want to wash with a small amount of water to remove any excess base.

Then you reverse this idea by using an acidified alcohol to extract the amides. Do a few extractions and combine them if necessary. One potential beneficial side effect of using the acid is that the amides should form more stable salts. Its possible that if an acidified alcohol strongly favors the amides over the toxins you might be able to skip the wash step and just extract with this solution.

Notes:
Of course you might have a bit of base solution left after the washing step so think about the acid and base you will use. You might want to use NaOH as your base and HCl as your acid so that if you form any salts it would just be "table salt". Or you could do the intermediate step of washing with a small amount of room temp or colder water, not too much as you don't want to extract any amides, just enough to wash away any excess base. If you don't want to have to obtain NaOH and HCl, you should be able to use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) as your base and tartaric acid, which I believe would form sodium bitartrate which is cream of tartar.

For pure alcohols you can use everclear/grain alcohol, which allows you to make a tincture since it's consumable (dilute with RO or Distilled water after extraction). Or use pharmaceutical isopropyl alcohol. You can get these closer to anhydrous by using anhyrous Magnesium Sulphate (epsom salts).

Also, just for extra information: Twice my friend tried doing an extraction using standard 80 proof vodka, without a washing step. The untreated and unscraped seeds were ground in a coffee grinder and the powder was placed in a coffee filter. Alcohol was poured through the seeds and allowed to filter through. This was repeated a few times. The resulting solution was allowed to evaporate somewhat until it was down to a small quantity of alcohol. This was taken as a shot. He said it tasted horrible, but he experienced little nausea. He actually ate freezer pizza during the time when most experience nausea. He experienced a fairly strong and long lasting trip. The second time was much more rushed and careless, and he was preparing 4 doses rather than one, little effect was noticed, much nausea was experienced and two people threw up. The seeds were at least 3mo aged at this point and this could be a contributing factor.

I hope this helps. If you find out any more info about the theory behind this; whether it would work or not, please let me know, same for if you actually try it. Thanks.

Good luck.


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"The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."
- Marcel Proust

I wish you all ceaselessly flowing moments of happiness.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: Best way to an LSA (HBWR) extraction large scale. [Re: psyphon]
    #1924608 - 09/17/03 11:00 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

>>Instead of using a non-polar solvent, which is probably the hardest to get in a pure form, use a basified alcohol. In the online extraction docs they refer to alcohol as the polar solvent but I belive that alcohols are actually semi-polar

Alcohols are pretty polar and actually kind acidic.

Methanol for example
CH3-OH has a pKa of 15.5 which isn't terribly acidic or terribly basic, but compare it to HF (Hydrofluoric acid) with a pKa of 3.2 and when some compounds have pKa's all the way up to 50.

Straight chain alcohols are pretty polar.

CH3-OH has a dipolar moment that starts with the C and points to the O and a smaller dipole moment from the H to the O
. +++ -- +
so you have CH3-OH

or with EtOH
+++ --- +
C - C - OH
--------> <-- (dipole moments)

Oxygen is the most electronegative element in the Alcohol so it's gonna filter electrons to itself and leave the ends of the molecule pretty polar.


As for acidified alcohol solutions and basified alcohol solutions, i really have no idea how this is supposed to work in principle.


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