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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed 15
#19035211 - 10/26/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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HI!
GRAINS. So nutritious that they must be fully sterilized lest even the slightest contaminant run rampant. So nutritious that they cannot possibly hold enough water to use it all in a single flush. Grains are the heart of the mycology grow; failure is likely and success shallow without them. Thus they could be said to deserve the title of Substrate more than other materials. We should carefully prepare this most important substrate leaving it healthy, whole, nutritious, hydrated, and loose.
GRASS SEED & BROWN RICE I have used many different grains - rye, millet/milo, wheat, grass seed, brown rice, even corn. With some adjustments based on their size & hardiness, this prep tek works to prepare them all! In many ways relevant to our cultivation purposes these grains are the same. However their differences come to seem quite drastic to those that work with them many times. Millet&Milo (birdseed), Rye, and wheat are the currently widespread common choices for grains. Less so are grass seed & brown rice which I think should be more popular! Since these grains require a bit more care in their preparation and are likely to be a tad more expensive in bulk by weight than a couple other options, there may be little need to use them for certain teks but definite advantages for others.
Grass seed is an incredible little grain. Its tiny size offers serious advantages but needs careful attention paid to hydration lest it become annoying. As long as they're hydrated carefully one can fully take the advantages of this rich little seed. It has 3-7 times the grains per area of all other grains. For transfers where only inoculation points are necessary, or for when an especially high saturation of inoculation points is desired, grass seed then makes itself more effective than grains many times its price. This may be only a slight advantage that doesn't compensate for the increase in price when used as a "spawn" substrate grain, but for other uses it flourishes. If for instance a single colonized "master" jar of rye grain can inoculate 10+ more, a single "master" of grass seed can do 30+, also making better use of jars and sterilization.
Brown rice is also wonderful but is limited in use. Its high nutrition and water-holding capacity can become very starchy and sticky to the point of being difficult to use for "spawning" teks unless precisely hydrated lightly, but it flourishes in a grow technique where the substrate is never broken-up. With the bonus of perfect discretion in storage, this may indeed make it a grain of choice for grows like violet tek! Thus I'm here showcasing whole brown rice for much more widespread use and showing how.
Both grains are very discrete. Face it, you're not feeding birds much less horses and you aren't milling flour… but brown rice is obviously for dinner and grass seed is for the yard!
PREPARATION
I have 2 main ways of preparing grains, a regular or modified stove/microwave boil preparation or the trick I came up with to easily flash hydrate large quantities of grains by pouring hard-boiling water onto them. They will be described in that order.
Additionally I modify the process when using the grains for Psilocybes, hydrating them with plant food "ferts" mixed in the water as instructed on the label and treating the grains before sterilization with two heat sessions 24+hr apart. The modification will be described at the end of this post. More on this
Most grain preps are overcomplicated. It's important to remember that they will be cooked again in the PC. Grain quality is diminished more than necessary by boiling the grains and hydrating as such. There is no point in making it fully-cooked and stuffed with water before it is going to get cooked again. It's quite funny that other preparations say that the heat step is primarily for evaporating off excess water, when that water is only excess because the grains are already fully cooked and fully wet because of that very step. If you've unnecessarily fully-hydrated the grains at the prep stage by boiling/simmering them, you have to get rid of the excess water on the surface as it's obviously not needed to finish hydration.
This is the main problem with heavy preparations - the necessity of drying, an extra variable step that's due to an overtreatment. Many mistakes can be made regarding hydration due to these and although it's not hard to get it right it has leached out and cooked off more of the grains organic quality. Clever drying tactics are extra tedium and can result in spotty hydration.
Thus I figured out these easy methods for preparing all grains!
Short Boiling prep: Bring to a rolling boil about 4 times the volume of water as the volume of your dry grains to be prepared. You may need to add some as the grains are boiling if you see the grains expanding near the top of the water level as they expand and water boils away. Once the water is boiling hard throw in your grains. For corn, allow the water to recover a bit of its boil for a minute or so before removing from heat. Definitely remove from heat! A bit metal pot, especially a pressure cooker pot, left to linger on an oven-hot electric heat source is likely to cause much rye and brown rice to burst. This can easily ruin a brown rice preparation.
Some grains such as rye will be ready as soon as 4 hours later. Some may be ready after 24. Simply strain until a little tossing no longer causes much dripping and load up for sterilization!
Others like grass seed & brown rice may benefit from or require (respectively) a second short boil before a longer straining.
This is how brown rice looks before its second short boil. As long as the initial boil was short, you can see that the grains are not fully enlarged yet and feel that they're still quite tough in the middle. We want them to be soft enough to break smoothly under the fingernail but not loose, starchy, falling apart.
Leave the grains in the water as it is brought up to a boil. If your stove can do this somewhat quickly, let it boil hard for just a couple minutes before immediately straining (be careful!). Otherwise getting it to a thorough boil is enough to strain since the heat is still higher for longer.
My suggestion is to use a medium simmer & monitor the rice's progression, straining it when it reaches that perfect size and hydration. As long as you're keeping an eye on it, and pull some out with a spoon to check it out every little while, you'll find it's easy to nail the sweet spot. This ensures that the heat isn't so high that it continues to over-cook even after you strain it at the right time, and that you're less likely to let it pass that perfect point in the first place.
There is how brown rice looks once prepared. With a few periodic shakes for dripping it won't take but a couple hours of straining before it's ready to load up! *If boiled a long time and hydrated fully, grass seed in the bottom of strainers may need up to four times as long to finish straining off excess water such amongst the many grains' surfaces. If this is the case, be patient. If your brown rice is over-hydrated, be extra patient, and count yourself lucky that only this tek is forgiving of this kind of mispreparation.
Ready to go!
This rice is loaded 1 cup (8oz) per container. 2 pound bag of brown rice became 13 cups of prepared substrate. The bag was almost half a cup over a quart, so the rice became about 2.5x its original volume.
Flash Hydration prep: The aim of this preparation is a bit different. We want to bring the grains just short of both fully cooked and fully hydrated.
Bring to a rolling boil 2x-3x the volume of water as the volume of dry grains to be prepared – 2x for grass seed, 2.5x or more for birdseed rye and wheat, 3x for corn and rice.
Make sure the water is boiling very hard, photos for emphasis.
BE CAREFUL:
With the grains in a tote on the floor next to you, take the boiling water right from the stove and pour it into them.
It's very important that the water still be ridiculously hot, still hard-boiling when poured onto the grains. If it's a so-so boil and you take your time pouring it, and it loses much more of its heat than it has to, the grains may not become fully prepared over the course of the long aftersoak.
Water should come a bit above the top of the grains. The grains will rise over the coming hour:
Wait an additional hour or three (depending) after the grains have expanded before straining; it expands quickly at first but as the water is cooling the hydration slows and steadies out over a longer period. Grains such as rye, pictured above, may appear ready as soon as just 4 hours. You can use when the grains look round and healthy!:
... but I suggest you let them soak longer! It may be a bit better to under-do it than over-do it, but over-doing it does not come easy with this grain preparation, and it's more important to ensure that the grains are easily consumable by the mycelium. An incomplete preparation can result in incomplete yield.
Grass seed is ready to go anywhere around 2 hours after hydration, since the greater amount of water stuck between the grains after straining will finish their hydration in the cooker. It is a very friendly grain when prepared nicely.
Corn and rice are larger or more firm and can use a couple/few more hours waiting in the water before strain.
Strain for just a few minutes:
This is what makes this grain approach so easy & once learned works perfectly every time. Unless strained immediately after a simmer, some amount of moisture is retained amongst the grains' surfaces. Since the grains aren't so heavily cooked and hydrated by this prep, the moisture on the grains after just a few minutes of straining is perfect to finish hydration & stop any burning/drying.
"But wait, there's more"
When you go to pour your grains into a strainer to drain off the water, be sure to have something to catch the water!
Here is that liquid after some time of settling. The top liquid is poured off into a container of its own...
... and the settled part combined while leaving behind any stray grains.
The right container of opaque liquid essentially amounts to AGAR!
The left container of settled grain matter in liquid can be settled further and more grainwater pulled off the top:
... leaving behind a thick almost syrup solution of grain starches and nutrients. With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!
Both can be frozen for later use.
PREP MODIFICATIONS FOR FERTS Do not add ferts to your grain prep water unless you modify the prep to suit, described as follows. It won't be of any use that way and mycelium may not like it, possibly manifesting as slowed colonization, or even a stall if there is too much as well. It must be processed by bacteria first, just as when adding bone meal or blood meal to compost. This here is only to outline the adjustment to above grain preparations that this experiment requires. About using plant food 'ferts' in treated grain substrates
After the initial hydrating heat treatment we allow 24-28 hours for contaminant mold spores and bacterial endospores to germinate. Then we repeat the heat treatment to destroy those contaminants and leave behind a far reduced spectra of bacteria.
If you used a boil-24hr-boil preparation as per the short boiling prep this is already done. Just leave the grains enclosed in their containers for another 24 hours as a "pre-ferment" period. 24-28 hours after the return to normal temperatures the smell will begin to transform. At this point they can be sterilized at any time before a rancid bacterial bloom occurs.
If you only boiled&soaked once before straining and loading, or used the flash-hydrate preparation to do the same, you need a second heat treatment. The microwave is perfect for this.
Lids loose if the grains are hydrated nicely. Lids off for part of the time if you may be concerned with the grains being too wet. Microwave for 7-8 minutes depending on how many containers you have in there. It may help to turn them 180° after half the time. Be careful, they will be very hot!
Like said above, 24-28 hours after return to normal temperature they're ready for sterilization!
_______________________________________________________
REMEMBER: There are slight modifications in the water and heat times of these preparations for different grains. No amount of written detail can overcome inexperience or laziness in cooking grains. Keep your mind on your preparation and you'll have perfect grains in no time!
Have fun!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (03/10/15 11:46 PM)
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist
Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,086
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19035304 - 10/26/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not seeing exactly what you invented here.
The first method is basically the same as RR's prep, except starting with boiling water for the soak.
The second is FooMan's prep, to the T.
For the record, I've tried FooMan's prep on WBS before and it didn't end up yielding nearly as well as a normal soak/simmer. Like half the yield as normal. This is using an isolate in the same conditions as always.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: 36fuckin5] 2
#19035351 - 10/26/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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There's nothing to "invent" regarding simple grain preparations, just different adjustments to share.
Neither are exactly alike the two you mentioned. In fact this post is specifically for the differences in them I've purposely adjusted.
If anything, it'd actually be the First one that's similar but not alike FooMan's WBS method since he pours the grains in the pot, and I've not seen the second used at-all. I posted the 2nd prep a long time ago as part of another thread. None of those you mention use a 2nd heating 24hrs later, either.
Additionally, I haven't found a write-up specifically guided to the potential problematic whole brown rice. There needs to be one around.
I can write-up a grain prep if I want, even if it actually were my take on someone elses. Thanks for your 'input'.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Stromrider
This must be the place
Registered: 06/02/13
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Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19035493 - 10/26/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: I'm not seeing exactly what you invented here.
The first method is basically the same as RR's prep, except starting with boiling water for the soak.
The second is FooMan's prep, to the T.
For the record, I've tried FooMan's prep on WBS before and it didn't end up yielding nearly as well as a normal soak/simmer. Like half the yield as normal. This is using an isolate in the same conditions as always.
Aren't most people's teks on here (including mine) re-writes of previous teks wwith minor tweaks
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist
Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,086
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Stromrider]
#19035602 - 10/26/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said:
Quote:
36fuckin5 said: I'm not seeing exactly what you invented here.
The first method is basically the same as RR's prep, except starting with boiling water for the soak.
The second is FooMan's prep, to the T.
For the record, I've tried FooMan's prep on WBS before and it didn't end up yielding nearly as well as a normal soak/simmer. Like half the yield as normal. This is using an isolate in the same conditions as always.
Aren't most people's teks on here (including mine) re-writes of previous teks wwith minor tweaks
Yep. Which is why it's so damn hard to find good info.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Stromrider
This must be the place
Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,347
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19035618 - 10/26/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said:
Quote:
Stromrider said:
Quote:
36fuckin5 said: I'm not seeing exactly what you invented here.
The first method is basically the same as RR's prep, except starting with boiling water for the soak.
The second is FooMan's prep, to the T.
For the record, I've tried FooMan's prep on WBS before and it didn't end up yielding nearly as well as a normal soak/simmer. Like half the yield as normal. This is using an isolate in the same conditions as always.
Aren't most people's teks on here (including mine) re-writes of previous teks wwith minor tweaks
Yep. Which is why it's so damn hard to find good info.
I have never had trouble finding good information. I used fh and tl's teks to get me started and when I found a system that worked well for me I made a start to finish bulk tek. It's a work in progress
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anne halonium
jaguarette
Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Stromrider] 1
#19035654 - 10/26/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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great stuff violet..........
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botanicalbishop
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: anne halonium]
#19036113 - 10/26/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Violet you left out important information regarding rgs prep. In your past "teks" you've stated to only use half the amount of water to grass seed. Boiling 3x the volume of water to rgs always leads to a wet sub, also do not bring your grass seed to boil with your water as you do with rye or wbs the kernels burst easily. Thought I'd chime in, seems like your contradicting yourself. Not trying to hurt anyones ego or down this tek but it does need revision.
-------------------- "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." Abraham Lincoln
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anne halonium
jaguarette
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: botanicalbishop]
#19036132 - 10/26/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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boil the stuff and strain it. perfect every time.
how hard can it be?
theres a larger point here. its not difficult, to do seed to scale, and ,plastic containers, are way more forgiving on air and water , than glass IMO.
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Edited by anne halonium (10/26/13 03:23 PM)
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Sockadin
Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: anne halonium]
#19036242 - 10/26/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well done V, This is the level of detail that we were looking for. I love the part about RGS being for the yard. I am going to try the flash tek again and post updates, but I still stand by my original statement that new growers should learn the BRF tek first.
The problem with Brown Rice, and other grains, is that there is so much room for error when compared to the BRF tek.
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Sockadin]
#19050206 - 10/29/13 02:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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LungCheeseFungus
Stranger Everyday
Registered: 05/01/13
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19078725 - 11/03/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is just what the doctor ordered, thanks Violet.
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jpack666
Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 484
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: LungCheeseFungus]
#19082279 - 11/03/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info, will be trying a few tests soon
-------------------- "There's a negative and a positive to everything." For more information, RogerRabbit's Website/Videos
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Mosey3012
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: jpack666]
#19155455 - 11/18/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Excuse me while I attempt to clear up some confusion on my end:
As far as what I remember on the initial tek before it was modded into parts it seems like you had a bit more information available on the grass seed's actual preparation. From what I can tell theres far less focus on it and more so a general just general seed prep...
Correct me if I'm wrong but speaking specifically about RGS, one would use twice(x2) the amount of water as they would grain (so for every 250mL/1 cup of grain I'd use 500mL/2 cups water) correct?
I ask this because...
In the tek post before the way you had us do it was add the water in, stir it up every so often, and it'd be ready in 4-x hours... Now its up to 14+... Is my mind a mess and im completely fabricating this or was the actual tek altered some lol.
The last method I remember using mentioned that if you were left with less then a cup of liquid that you prepared things right but following this tek today my seeds were totally submerged (they've hydrated above the water line now) but are still very much "soaking" as opposed to how I remember them from last time. This leaves me a bit worried about i guess the "staining for just a few min" as it seems like they'll still be quite soaked before I load them into the jars.
What causes the grains to clump into balls anyway? Is that due to them being improperly hydrated then sticking together as they're dried in the pressure cooker?
Anyways, its just seed and I always follow the tek so we'll have to see how that works. Should be loading up and PC'ing that all 2night so if it doesn't work out for some reason I'll make sure to post
Thanks again for all the info Violet! Cheers
-------------------- "Each of these lives is the right one! Every path is the right path. Everything could have been anything else and it would have just as much meaning" "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost"
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Mosey3012
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Mosey3012]
#19156334 - 11/18/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Another question
"Grass seed is ready to go anywhere from 14 to 24 hours after hydration."
Is this statement saying that AFTER hydration grass seed is rdy for the PC after 14-24 hours or is saying that grass seed is ready to go to the PC after 14-24 hours of hydration... Sorry for my reading to much into this but the original statement makes me think that once hydrated the grass seed is good to be PC'd after its sat out another 14-24 hours, which I guess depending on how its being stored after hydration would count as a "strain"...
Someone fill me in! Got a bunch of seed sitting in the tote now coming up on 12 hours of soaking.
Thanks!
-------------------- "Each of these lives is the right one! Every path is the right path. Everything could have been anything else and it would have just as much meaning" "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost"
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Mosey3012]
#19157726 - 11/18/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mosey, I had that one method of preparation displayed in that tek using the exact amount of water per hydration mimicing the "no-prep" displayed in RR's dvd for growing sclerotia with grass seed. For those who have trouble with nailing hydration with tiny seed, it makes it near impossible to mess up. I did mention that you could let it soak longer if you like. After a few people mis-understood instructions or didn't get the emphasis on how hard water must boil for that particular prep, I decided to let the single simple sentence read "let soak for many hours afterwards" and use 12+ as the general range. That helps to ensure that the grains have picked up enough moisture to complete in the cooker in the case that it wasn't flash-boiled in. Just keeping it as simultaneously ideal and general as possible. However, for making a thread dedicated to prep I wasn't going to mimic "no-prep" but rather wanted to show it done right boiled for the regular common batch.
Yes, clumpy grains happens particularly when over boiled, moreso with starchier grains. It's only a problem if they're over boiled though, which is hard to do with grass seed really, but with the tiny things it's really bad if so. With the right control, even brown rice can be used as "spawn." It requires simply stopping them from poofing up largely, letting them gradually work up to the right level on a simmer.
If you prepare your grains like me you'd leave them sitting in water 24+ hours before a 2nd heat treat, and out of water another 24+ before hitting the pressure cooker. So you're good!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (11/19/13 09:47 AM)
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MMagg
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19176717 - 11/22/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Violet,
which grain prep method would you recommend for a first timer using the VTek with Rye Grass Seed?
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: MMagg]
#19177175 - 11/23/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Regardless of which I suggest to you, the truly important thing for beginners is to learn what properly prepared grains are like! Once you do this, you can easily reach that either way, as long as you pay attention and learn what you're doing.
It's quite simple. One just has to be sure not to over-boil brown rice or under-hydrate/under-prepare grass seed.
Since your intent is grass seed, I suggest you learn preparation using the boiling prep. It's quite a simmer-friendly grain. If you end up over-boiling (don't over-boil) it you simply strain it for a long long time. You'll see... Fortunately RGS is not Too easily over-boiled the way rye/millet/wheat burst.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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MMagg
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19178351 - 11/23/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Regardless of which I suggest to you, the truly important thing for beginners is to learn what properly prepared grains are like! Once you do this, you can easily reach that either way, as long as you pay attention and learn what you're doing.
It's quite simple. One just has to be sure not to over-boil brown rice or under-hydrate/under-prepare grass seed.
Since your intent is grass seed, I suggest you learn preparation using the boiling prep. It's quite a simmer-friendly grain. If you end up over-boiling (don't over-boil) it you simply strain it for a long long time. You'll see... Fortunately RGS is not Too easily over-boiled the way rye/millet/wheat burst.
Gotcha. Boiling it is. Thanks again.
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MMagg
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: MMagg]
#19181997 - 11/24/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Violet,
I hate to ask, but could you please give me a step by step for 2 pounds of Rye Grass Seed.... The tek you posted has multiple grains mentioned and i'm having some confusion trying to figure out how its applying to Rye Grass Seed specifically...... As a noob, I want to nail down one grain before I try to figure out more stuff...... RGS seems to be the best all purpose grain.
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: MMagg] 1
#19238430 - 12/06/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Came across a lengthy yet fascinating article about the history of shroomery.
<snip> ... there are more reasons to think of brown rice as superb. In the 1980s, German mycologist Dr. Jochen Gartz, went so far as to file a patent (No. 88-09773, Akad. Wiss. DDR) on brown rice after his discovery that this medium supported the cultivation of P. cubensis of unprecedented potency--1% psilocybin/psilocin by dry weight (which almost equals Panaeolus cyanescens), the highest natural potency ever reported of this mushroom. </snip>
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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mushrume man
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I recently used 2 quarts of rye berries to 3.5 quarts water. I used your boil and pour tek with the grain in a 5gal. Letting it soak over night to reach about 16-18 hours the next morning. Stretching pantyhose over the bucket I strained for a bit and sat down to load jars.
It came out to be about 4 qts of hydrated grains. There was about 1.5 qts soak water afterwards. What I was puzzled about is when I loaded up the jars I ended up pulling a handful of burst grain out.
Is this normal? None of the grains where burst after sterilizing. They actually looked slightly dry.
I'll post pics later tho the quality is poor.
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Violet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek BURST grains [Re: mushrume man]
#19247702 - 12/08/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've had some problems with bursting rye if doing the pour-boiling-water method when the container poured into holds the heat very well. I got a huge proportion of burst grains when I poured the rye into the pot with the boiling water, even removing it from heat immediately, for that same reason simply exaggerated. For me it's just another reason to prefer grass seed since such bursting is practically impossible with it - but I suggest making sure you're pouring boiling water onto the grains in a container that won't hold the heat so well. I don't know if your container (bucket?) does, but you'll get the gist upon trying some different things.
If you continue having problems with burst rye or millet, try having the grain in the water while it's being brought up to a boil.
As a relevant note, I've come to prefer the 2-day short-boil method by a notable margin.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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PirateSwazey
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19248097 - 12/08/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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As usual, great post Violet.
I used to do something similar to this when preparing WBS, but instead of the tote I would do it in 5 gallon buckets. I abandoned ship on this method because I kept having bacteria issues due to never being able to properly dry the off the exterior moisture from grains
I really like your ideas about saving the grain water from the soak to use for a greener agar prep, and I'll have to try this as I have started straining my rye grains over 5 gallon buckets anyway in an attempt to use the steam from the water caught below to help dry the grain off faster.
Would you recommend using the grain water to mix in with pre-blended MEA, or strictly agar-agar?
For a little constructive criticism as far as the 'ferts' section goes, I'd say you've got a little more experimentation to do yourself before making them a subject more people will be willing to investigate.
Thanks for the input
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: PirateSwazey]
#19248461 - 12/09/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am working on a truffle project so I went with rye as you suggested.
Here is a few pics Before
After sterilize
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anne halonium
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: J. Jack Flash]
#19249240 - 12/09/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mod edit: Stay on topic anne, and stop this "v tekkers vs. the barn ostrich" bullshit, because you ruin all Violet's threads with your nonsense.
Edited by stonesun (12/09/13 10:01 AM)
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anne halonium
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: anne halonium]
#19258213 - 12/10/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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hmm, then we need a v tek mod to liven things up then. note the pic below, this is how ya keep your PP5 , from getting gummy in the bottom and stalling. assists bottom water, and full container FAE.
we used this mod, in our exotic chicon nindo mexicana grow, v tek style.
nice to see ya stonesun.
Quote:
J. Jack Flash said: Came across a lengthy yet fascinating article about the history of shroomery.
<snip> ... there are more reasons to think of brown rice as superb. In the 1980s, German mycologist Dr. Jochen Gartz, went so far as to file a patent (No. 88-09773, Akad. Wiss. DDR) on brown rice after his discovery that this medium supported the cultivation of P. cubensis of unprecedented potency--1% psilocybin/psilocin by dry weight (which almost equals Panaeolus cyanescens), the highest natural potency ever reported of this mushroom. </snip>
and yet, so few have read that article.............
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Edited by anne halonium (12/11/13 09:19 AM)
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: anne halonium]
#19266733 - 12/12/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks Violet, I'll try mixing it up a bit. Using my PC pot for the next batch for sure.
@ Anne Halonium Looking at your pictures without any explanation is like playing a game of Where's Waldo!
I'm going out on a limb here, you cut out a disc of scotch-brite scrubby to put in the bottom of the container which helps to hold water and humidify the grain?
Sounds good to me
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Edited by mushrume man (12/12/13 05:23 PM)
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Violet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: mushrume man]
#19266867 - 12/12/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's the right idea.
Although in my myco-scrubbie experiences I've found that specifically the scotchbrite brand ones have caused me problems... I got mycelium to grow over them in the bottom of containers when done as Anne shows in that photo, but when I combine 3M scotchbrite with agar, Nothing survives. Everything that contains the scotch-brite scrubbies in liquid is toxic to mycelium, not only stopping new growth from the inoculant but even killing the living mycelium of the inoculant.
All the scrubbies I've tried with agar have worked wonderfully!... except 3M scotchbrite. So might as well never buy the scotchbrite, despite that they are usually the stiffer scour pads and that they appear to be colonized over when dry and under mycelium in grains.
It just weirds me out. There shouldn't be something about 3M's scrubbies that kill life, they should be nothing but plastic, like the others I've found that colonize beautifully regardless of use...
One thing is for sure, using scrubbies with fungi is Amazing, and the photo Anne just showed you is probably the least awesome use of scrubbies with fungi!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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J. Jack Flash
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19267084 - 12/12/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
... leaving behind a thick almost syrup solution of grain starches and nutrients. With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!
Hi violet. What's this little trick of which you speak? I'm starting to accumulate a pile of this stuff and was about to just feed it to the plants. But if you happen to have a better idea...
also, i kinda like hearing that the 3M scrubbies kill stuff. makes me feel less contaminated myself when grabbing a dirty one to scrub the bathtub. anyway, thank you for real.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: J. Jack Flash]
#19267336 - 12/12/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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3m scrubbers kill mycelium?
Wow that's something I'd never would have guessed.
Please share your experience with the scrubbies, feel free to PM me if you want to keep on subject here.
I also have some questions about the grain water. Do you let it settle out at room temp or in the fridge? How much does it take to get the syrupy looking liquid?
Also can you explain where you were going with this
"With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!"
You've sparked curiosity
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Violet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: mushrume man]
#19267505 - 12/12/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That "trick" is Anne's Pom tek, utilizing the scrubbies interestingly mentioned in the above posts.
Often ignorantly ridiculed by people who cannot see what's really being shown in Anne's intentionally subtle and discrete pictures, the Pom tek allows for lots of top-quality fruits to be grown from the grainwater that those same people are ignorantly wasting down their drains.
Grainwater, specifically the thick kinda-syrupy unclear grainwater stuffed with starches and all kinds of grain goods, has lots of growth and yield potential that's easy-to-access in the water, and used for super-easy 'neglect' invitro growing in containers with a fraction of normal amount of agar and with pom scrubbies as a colonizing and fruiting medium it offers an environment where side-pins are actually the ideal fruiting behavior (and practically the only one)!
However Anne is the person to talk to about that. And it's not a topic to continue in this thread. When she feels it's finally time to post the full teks somewhere you'll definitely want to be there to see. My experience of the things I know to do so far has been incredible.
Quote:
mushrume man said: 3m scrubbers kill mycelium? Wow that's something I'd never would have guessed. Please share your experience with the scrubbies, feel free to PM me if you want to keep on subject here.
I do intend to keep on the thread's subject, but it's already mentioned in this post above so I'll wrap it up here too.
Honestly I also was truly surprised. If it weren't that I did seemingly countless experiments to find out why all my initial attempts failed utterly despite No contams, and found that the only thing that caused the problem was the addition of scotch-brite scrubbies, I wouldn't have quickly believed it myself. It's simple. I use the same containers, the same grainwater, and the same agar for All my agar culturing. Throwing in a small piece of 3m scrubbie causes all mycelium added to that container to die. Other scrubbies, no problem!
Quote:
mushrume man said: I also have some questions about the grain water. Do you let it settle out at room temp or in the fridge? How much does it take to get the syrupy looking liquid?
Yes, room temp out on the counter. It can settle well in the fridge also. But after my initial heat treatment of ALL fert growing materials, 24hrs later I give them a 2nd heat treatment before another day of waiting before either sterilizing or storing cold.
It usually settles quite quickly, say an hour to three, and it can continue to settle further to expose more of the 'clear' water. Though I find that there's almost always more that can very slowly settle out of the more clear liquid like for culturing dishes, not that it needs to for use.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (12/12/13 07:54 PM)
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Fred Teddy
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19268166 - 12/12/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: ... Everything that contains the scotch-brite scrubbies in liquid is toxic to mycelium, not only stopping new growth from the inoculant but even killing the living mycelium of the inoculant.
All the scrubbies I've tried with agar have worked wonderfully!... except 3M scotchbrite. ...
Some scrubbies and most sponges are treated with an anti-fugal/bacterial to keep it from growing stuff on it while it sits there on the sink. The cheapo stuff usually doesn't.
Peace, FT
-------------------- ... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet. Peace. Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.
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Violet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Fred Teddy]
#19268173 - 12/12/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yet when 3M is asked if they add such treatments to scotch-brite scrubbies, the answer is a short and simple "No"
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19271337 - 12/13/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the reply. That POM tek is just what I have been expecting to show up. Its inline with the revolutionary ideas I have been pondering for fungal cultivation.
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Fred Teddy
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19272355 - 12/13/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Yet when 3M is asked if they add such treatments to scotch-brite scrubbies, the answer is a short and simple "No"
Strange, 3m scubbies kill stuff, others don't, but "we dont put anything on it". ??? They must use that 'special' nylon I guess. Gotta be something different about them. I have read "anti fungal/bacterial" on sponge packages and scrubbie packages as well. Something to check for when purchasing. I was all cheebed up and put a sponge inside my sub once. Made sense at the time. Didn't notice much difference in the end, come to find out the myc filled every available space in the sponge, duh-feating the idea, lol. Note to self: No more brainstorms while really high.
Peace, FT
-------------------- ... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet. Peace. Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.
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anne halonium
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Fred Teddy]
#19285687 - 12/16/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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pom tek is coming. but, not today on this thread.
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Nope
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: anne halonium]
#19358691 - 01/02/14 01:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Would tossing in a bit of gypsum into the grass seed hurt, before I flash hydrate?
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PussyFart
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Nope]
#19358699 - 01/02/14 01:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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A small amount of gypsum never hurts.....
-------------------- THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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anne halonium
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: PussyFart]
#19362541 - 01/03/14 09:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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gypsum not needed. v-tek, is simple and straight as is.
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Violet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Nope]
#19362674 - 01/03/14 10:09 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nope, Nope! (hahahah I couldn't resist) A little gypsum couldn't hurt.
I've not yet seen the point of using it with my grows. I prepare my grains right so they're plenty loose, and it's hard to imagine it increasing my yield any noteworthy margin. I haven't used gypsum in about a year and counting.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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spacechildo
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19362789 - 01/03/14 10:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Nope, Nope! (hahahah I couldn't resist) A little gypsum couldn't hurt.
I've not yet seen the point of using it with my grows. I prepare my grains right so they're plenty loose, and it's hard to imagine it increasing my yield any noteworthy margin. I haven't used gypsum in about a year and counting.
Why not? Have you not seen differences with the added calcium? I don't have sticky grains but use gypsum for the calcium. Still not done enough justifiable comparisons to say for sure it helps, but seen most other growers come to that conclusion.
Or is the calcium already in your fertz? (joke)
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: spacechildo]
#19362904 - 01/03/14 11:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Probably calcium in fert boost
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Gr13nMushDude
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: mushrume man]
#19363261 - 01/03/14 12:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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So just my own lil alteration to your tek or maybe better a different road is instead of freezing the grain broth I took mine and PCed it for an hr. Then I stored it with the rest of my supplies its been there about 2 weeks and it looks good so far still nothing growing on the top of the water or anything just another option for people like me that cant use the freezer.
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Gr13nMushDude]
#19363320 - 01/03/14 12:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think mine is fermenting, I just left it in the fridge
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Deadzygote6
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: mushrume man]
#19364886 - 01/03/14 06:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok so I have a question about your rgs tek. I followed the flash hydration method and I let it soak for 24 hours and then drained it for a a few hours on my makeshift screen tray went to load my jars a little while ago and some of the seed looked almost completely dry not much just a little here and there around the edges the rest still felt fairly moist and left some water on the scoop I was using. so on to my question will my seed be alright or did I let it lose too much moisture? Would rather catch it now if I messed up than after I invest more time and supplies into this venture
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Violet
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19365162 - 01/03/14 07:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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They're tiny so exposed grains dry quickly. They'll appear as having dried some even more quickly. They may still be fine, but your question "did I let it lose too much moisture" is one that only you can find out the answer to.
I'll say this - the ones on top of the pile sitting in my containers overnight before sterilization appear to have 'dried' but when returned to the mix for sterilization the whole mix is still just right.
Since they're "flash" hydrated they don't need to drain nearly so long. The moisture kept on the surface amongst the grain after just straining and tossing for a bit helps finish hydration (and maybe even a bit more expansion) during the cooker run. I started doing this specifically with grass seed for this reason.
It should be pretty clear if they're wet enough inside when you try to mush them.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Deadzygote6
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19365285 - 01/03/14 07:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright I guess ill go with it and see how it turns out thanks for the info
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Nope
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19365480 - 01/03/14 08:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I flash hydrated with coffee and a bit of gypsum for about 3-4 hours in a 5 gallon bucket. I tilted as to let as much water out, without spilling any seeds, because I didn''t want to sift through 11 quarts of rgs with a small metal colander. I also can't PC tonight, so I hope that the seeds aren't too hydrated, and that letting it sit over night helps dry out a bit. Knocking up with Penis Envy Uncut.
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Nope
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19369331 - 01/04/14 05:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Could I be able to get away with inoculating pint jars with 1/2cc ms solution?
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LungCheeseFungus
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Nope]
#19370915 - 01/05/14 12:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think that depends on a lot of things, but probably yes. I like to squirt it down one side, and not shake it at all. Then when you have a nice fat white streak, you can shake it and get a good distribution from top to bottom.
If it is all on the top or middle and your container is kind of full, it's a lot harder to get a good mix, especially toward the bottom.
-------------------- If you have not found something worth dieing for, you have found nothing worth living for. The most effective barrier to knowledge, is the illusion of it. Is there any long time member here that used to have the handle "Mr. Cool" elsewhere? PM me.
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Deadzygote6
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19378046 - 01/06/14 04:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey just another quick question just got done with my first round of pc'ing my seed and noticed my plastic containers had lots of condensation inside is this normal for using the twist top pp5? Or did I do something wrong? I had the lids screwed on just enough for them to catch as was suggested
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mushrume man
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19379091 - 01/06/14 08:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think that's pretty normal. You can shake the grains before you inoculate to distribute moisture
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J. Jack Flash
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: mushrume man]
#19379225 - 01/06/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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condensation is very common in my experience. as temps flux, the moisture evaporates and re-condenses readily. good or bad?
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Deadzygote6
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: J. Jack Flash]
#19380044 - 01/06/14 11:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I figured it couldn't hurt to much because I thought my rgs was looking a little on the dry side anyways so it should even out right? Guess well just have to wait and see haha
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Digital FL
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Deadzygote6]
#19542020 - 02/08/14 10:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nice information here, thanks for taking the time to type it up. I see you have Love&Light on your tag.. Is that in reference to the Dj's?
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oxana
i am the fun guy
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 258
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Digital FL]
#19562201 - 02/13/14 04:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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so i prepared some brown rice last night. i used your flash prep method.
they kernels are hard, i can easily cut them in half with im finger nail, but i cant squish them in between my fingers. does this sound right?
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: oxana]
#19563424 - 02/13/14 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't use that method to prepare rice.
It kinda sounds right a little bit, though I wouldn't really describe mine as "hard" Maybe yours are under-hydrated. Try it the other way and compare.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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TrickySpices
Mysterious Stranger
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#19566762 - 02/14/14 03:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So some quick questions on using grass seed im a bit of a noob... rgs? That is rye grass seed correct? So we are avoiding grass seed containing endophytes? Is that important at all or are all endophytes killed by this process... seems like allowing some germination of bacteria and fungi could be more important before sterilizing with grass seed am I followung this correct?
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oxana
i am the fun guy
Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 258
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: TrickySpices]
#19602325 - 02/22/14 12:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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hey violet got another little question for you.
whey you use a tweezers to grab a pin from one of your rice containers to clone it what do you do to sterillizer the tweezers inbetween uses? do you use a fresh sterile tweezers every transfer or do you maybe dip it in 10% bleach like they do in plant micropropagation? i cant imagine flame sterillizing a tweezers or forceps.
Edited by oxana (02/22/14 12:10 AM)
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mushmagic
supporting radical habits
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Posts: 5,372
Loc: Candyland
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: oxana]
#19602328 - 02/22/14 12:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just flame it, it's not that inconvenient.
-------------------- Trade list in journal (partially under construction; more to be added) Don't judge a man by what kinda shoes he in, judge a man on where that man's shoes been.
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J. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: oxana]
#19602504 - 02/22/14 01:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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propane torch is where it's at.
-------------------- the j stands for jesus.2020 new years grow along
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dr.alkaline
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: J. Jack Flash] 1
#20221137 - 07/03/14 09:10 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hi Violet
I am giving your grain prep a try(the short boiling prep, using brown rice):
I have a few questions if you have time to respond or if anyone can answer for that matter. My first time working with grains ever, sorry.
Do you strain immediately after throwing rice in the first boil and place in new water for the second boil or are you removing the pan from the heat of the first boil, leaving the rice in the original water, and just bringing it back up to the second boil?
Edited by dr.alkaline (07/03/14 09:46 PM)
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: dr.alkaline]
#20223799 - 07/04/14 12:12 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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After the first brief boil, having thrown the rice into the already boiling water and only keeping a boil 3-6 minutes, I leave the grain in the hot water. The next day I carefully bring it up to a low/moderate boil until the rice is properly hydrated, then strain immediately.
With rice, it may take two or three tries to learn how to do it right.
Good luck!
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Myconomy
High-Wizard
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#20835124 - 11/14/14 05:48 AM (9 years, 5 months ago) |
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I may just be a little bit confused with the grain water Violet, hoping you can clear this up for me, and anyone else who has this question.
You collect the water, and it separates into a milky substance, and a clearer/yellow substance.
Now the first jar of milky substance you appear to be mixing with agar-agar powder, and using with scrubbies as a substrate, and the agar/milk mix as the nutrient, correct?
The second jar of clearer/yellow substance you said is "agar". Now are you using this with your agar-agar powder as a way to make your agar go further? Or are you using that clearer/yellow liquid alone as a replacement for agar?
Love your work Violet!
-------------------- Hydrogen is an invisible, odorless gas, that when given enough time turns into people... and mushrooms.
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21081176 - 01/07/15 06:21 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Violet, I would like your opinion since you have worked with grass seeds so much.
Can I hydrate grass seed to get the proper moisture content of the grain then mix into a Coir/Verm/Gypsum sub to be oven pasteurized like in this method? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20822448
Colonization time should be 3 days with using 2 qts of grain slurry. The idea is that the grass seed in the sub will give the added nutrients to get larger yields without having to create tons of spawn for the same results. Thank you. I'm about to get some grass seed this weekend along with a PC.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
#21081193 - 01/07/15 06:37 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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If any grain can do it, it's grass seed. I have several times just added unprepared seed to coir and pasteurized in a mycobag, then inoculated into that bag to make a block. It worked for me every time and I only inoculated with a few spoonsful of colonized seed since they have so many inoculation points. Yields were pretty good so the grain's nutrition WAS used.
It works since the seed is so tiny, being steamed inside the hydrated bulk sub for so long as in a thorough pasteurization adequately hydrates and prepares it.
I don't know if your results would be different preparing the seed first. Might be possible that bacteria could become a bit of a problem but I suppose just as much that it would work no differently. I haven't done an oven pasteurization before and don't plan to since I don't use bulk subs for Cubensis, only gourmets. It would be worth a shot and that's something I'd be interested to see the results of. Grass seed is truly a special grain so more tricks are possible with it than anything else.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21081249 - 01/07/15 07:24 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool. Thanks for your input. Im getting the grass seed because of all the info and experience you have shared to the community. You will be glad to know I just got the plastic qt containers for the pom tek and some smaller plastic containers for my agar as Whyte uses. I will be using an agar wedge for inoculation of the pom tek. Already have the brown rice and about to head out to the health store to get the agar. I'm excited. I will ask cron to let me back in your thread in about a month when I got the pictures to share to support the pom tek.
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Edmunter
Mr
Registered: 05/01/13
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
#21119958 - 01/14/15 11:04 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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V, so im pouring off the top layer of grainwater and leaving that to settle along with the Sludge at the bottom, which brings me onto me next point.
Can you expand on this
'... leaving behind a thick almost syrup solution of grain starches and nutrients. With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!'
And...I dont ask much. How can I get my cultures to grow quicker. They are on a shelf a 65-70 degrees and they are slow.
I have a few in the airing cupboard which is 75-80 but I havent used this before as I like to grow in the light. If you grow in the dark and then take it out when its done it can trigger fruiting ive read, is this a myth?
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21119981 - 01/14/15 11:12 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Edmunter said: V, so im pouring off the top layer of grainwater and leaving that to settle along with the Sludge at the bottom, which brings me onto me next point.
Can you expand on this
'... leaving behind a thick almost syrup solution of grain starches and nutrients. With ~1/3 the normal proportion agar-agar powder and a little help from another trick this amounts to more substrate, but that's something else altogether!'
That's poms which I posted almost a year later after this post. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20643482#20643482
Quote:
Edmunter said: And...I dont ask much. How can I get my cultures to grow quicker. They are on a shelf a 65-70 degrees and they are slow.
I have a few in the airing cupboard which is 75-80 but I havent used this before as I like to grow in the light. If you grow in the dark and then take it out when its done it can trigger fruiting ive read, is this a myth?
Sorry to hear they're going so slowly... Temperature is all you can do. Temperature stability is important too, not for speed but for humidity and moisture loss. Sealed containers like my dishes won't lose moisture but it can condense and form droplets.
Don't worry about the exposure to light. You don't really have to be concerned with plates fruiting. If they would at all, it typically won't be until after they're over-grown and have digested the nutrition for some time.
It is better to colonize with some ambient room lighting, but not necessary. Any provable difference has been very slight. The temperature has a far bigger effect.
Also, you might just not have very fast genes... See my culturing tek to see how I select the fastest genes. I only take pins from the seed puck containers that fully colonize radially first.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120010 - 01/14/15 11:22 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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The inoculation type is the largest factor in colonization speeds. Followed by temperature. Then followed by genetics.
---- I am wrong all the time but my experience and readings lead me to my above statement. I would be more than gladly to read opposing views as I'm not interested in a debate but the ideas others may share.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
#21120027 - 01/14/15 11:27 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess I figured Ed was talking about his cultures colonizing agar.
Ed if you're talking about getting faster colonization of grains etc. then try using liquid inoculant. If you're using grain-to-grain inoculation, try using grass seed for your master jars.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120048 - 01/14/15 11:32 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Violet, can you share some likely (local) source's of where grass seed could be found?
I know this about sourcing local grains
Whole Oats: Tractor supply or other feed stores (cow food) Rye berries: whole foods or other health stores WBS: Most retail grocery stores. Brown Rice: Most retail grocery stores.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: blackdust]
#21120064 - 01/14/15 11:36 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I get grass seed from feed stores. Those stores have many different kinds of rye, wheat, birdseed, oats... and of course, grass seed. Haven't found a better price on any and they're all 'untreated'
Also have found grass seed at places that carry any lawn stuff. It's usually much more expensive at places like that though.
Mostly I only recommend grass seed for my culturing tech and for master grain-to-grain jars. It excels immensely over any other grain for those two uses. It also, as we've discussed before, can be used unprepared in a very-thorough pasteurization for supplementing bulk substrate bags.
Otherwise, there's not much advantage to the grass seed that accounts for the typically higher price. Although I do enjoy its quick sterilization and colonization and that it flushes out its yield more quickly in my container tek, having a higher BE and cycling containers more quickly.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (01/14/15 11:37 AM)
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120208 - 01/14/15 12:08 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thank you for your response.
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Edmunter
Mr
Registered: 05/01/13
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120262 - 01/14/15 12:20 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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No Im talking about Clones, transfers, spore swabs and anything else I may put in my easy agar dishes.
Here are my 2 jugs. One with top pour and the other with sludge.
Top pour is all the nutes I need with a third of the agar I usually use. So if I usually use 10g agar: 7g starch: 2g dextrose: 1g yeast per 500ml
So with this I would use 3g Agar, 10 g grainwater?
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21120282 - 01/14/15 12:27 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah I figured you meant agar. My first post about speed applies then.
No, for regular agar dishes, use as much as you normally would - 9-10g agar-agar for 500mL, or .5g agar-agar per 25mL dish.
The tek using grainwater for growing mushrooms, poms, is specifically what you can use 1/3 the agar-agar for. Even less potentially, up to just 1/5 or so, especially with very starchy sub.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Edmunter
Mr
Registered: 05/01/13
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120380 - 01/14/15 12:48 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks!!!
Its great to see you are part of the community now. Im very liberal and always like alternative view if only for the sake of change. It has been very interesting watching your growth, you were attacked by the extremists(and sheep), questioned by the curious and accepted by the open minded.
You seem to be one of the brightest amongst us . Do you have any background on yourself you'd care to share?
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Guardian187
Neophyte
Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21120614 - 01/14/15 01:56 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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You say temperature affects the growth on agar and also mentioned humidity. Would a very dry room slow the colonization of agar?
I put a drop of spore syringe solution on a dozen Petris about 4 days ago and still don't see much signs of any growth (see a small spec of mycelium).
RH of room is low and temp is around 68F
Edit: A drop per plate, to clarify...
Edited by Guardian187 (01/14/15 01:58 PM)
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21120654 - 01/14/15 02:05 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Background on myself? Not quite sure what you mean. As far as relevant background, I can't really think of anything off the top of my head...
Quote:
Guardian187 said: You say temperature affects the growth on agar and also mentioned humidity. Would a very dry room slow the colonization of agar?
I put a drop of spore syringe solution on a dozen Petris about 4 days ago and still don't see much signs of any growth (see a small spec of mycelium).
RH of room is low and temp is around 68F
Edit: A drop per plate, to clarify...
Humidity in a room shouldn't slow down a plate's colonization, because the humidity in the plate should be high regardless of the room, since it's sealed away from the room's air. Otherwise it wouldn't stay sterile.
I only mentioned moisture relative to temperature stability. If the temps are swinging all the time, it will exacerbate moisture evaporation from the agar or whatever other sub, and condensing on all the other surfaces of the container.
Just 4 days ago isn't very long for spore germination. I typically didn't see it that soon. Mine would be 4-7 days typically, and that's from my own prints. Otherwise more like 6-12 days IME. Patience, friend :]
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Edmunter
Mr
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120730 - 01/14/15 02:25 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I ment what have you studied, do you work within mushroom cultivation and do you originate from planet earth.........by the way are u female?
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wowimflabbergasted
supercalifragilistic
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 18,919
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21120732 - 01/14/15 02:26 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Edmunter said: I ment what have you studied, do you work within mushroom cultivation and do you originate from planet earth.........by the way are u female?
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blackdust
Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 8,327
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: wowimflabbergasted]
#21120765 - 01/14/15 02:36 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said:
Quote:
Edmunter said: I ment what have you studied, do you work within mushroom cultivation and do you originate from planet earth.........by the way are u female?
- derailing thread
Violet is smart, that is all that needs to be known. Privacy is important in this hobby.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21120828 - 01/14/15 02:53 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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I will say that, well after learning to grow originally with Cubensis over 3 years ago, I have since had a one-person-ran Shiitake grow business that used to supply a gourmet restaurant (when I also grew Oysters alongside) and now that I sell at a local farmer's market and occasionally to grocery stores.
Can't speak much to my studies and still retain as much anonymity as I'd want, but I will say beyond formal education I am very eclectically self-educated in my interests - cultivation mycology being one of many.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Guardian187
Neophyte
Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21120866 - 01/14/15 03:04 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Humidity in a room shouldn't slow down a plate's colonization, because the humidity in the plate should be high regardless of the room, since it's sealed away from the room's air. Otherwise it wouldn't stay sterile.
I only mentioned moisture relative to temperature stability. If the temps are swinging all the time, it will exacerbate moisture evaporation from the agar or whatever other sub, and condensing on all the other surfaces of the container.
Just 4 days ago isn't very long for spore germination. I typically didn't see it that soon. Mine would be 4-7 days typically, and that's from my own prints. Otherwise more like 6-12 days IME. Patience, friend :]
Thanks
I always get worked up about time. Much to learn still
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Edmunter
Mr
Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 1 month, 10 hours
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21121424 - 01/14/15 05:07 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackdust said:
Quote:
wowimflabbergasted said:
Quote:
Edmunter said: I ment what have you studied, do you work within mushroom cultivation and do you originate from planet earth.........by the way are u female?
- derailing thread
Violet is smart, that is all that needs to be known. Privacy is important in this hobby.
Quote:
Violet said: I will say that, well after learning to grow originally with Cubensis over 3 years ago, I have since had a one-person-ran Shiitake grow business that used to supply a gourmet restaurant (when I also grew Oysters alongside) and now that I sell at a local farmer's market and occasionally to grocery stores.
Can't speak much to my studies and still retain as much anonymity as I'd want, but I will say beyond formal education I am very eclectically self-educated in my interests - cultivation mycology being one of many.
Strings to your bow....nice...... So im reconing ur 28 years and a pys tecno Dj.....lol
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Edmunter
Mr
Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 1 month, 10 hours
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21128838 - 01/16/15 11:38 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Yeah I figured you meant agar. My first post about speed applies then.
No, for regular agar dishes, use as much as you normally would - 9-10g agar-agar for 500mL, or .5g agar-agar per 25mL dish.
The tek using grainwater for growing mushrooms, poms, is specifically what you can use 1/3 the agar-agar for. Even less potentially, up to just 1/5 or so, especially with very starchy sub.
So i'm going to make some agar dishes tonight. So to clarify, Im using 500ml of grain water to 10gs agar. Right?
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#21128856 - 01/16/15 11:43 AM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Correct! Just like any agar recipe.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Guardian187
Neophyte
Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21129438 - 01/16/15 02:07 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Correct! Just like any agar recipe.
The PDA and YM agars I have say 41g to 1L water. Is that too strong for mushies?
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Guardian187]
#21129544 - 01/16/15 02:40 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's 20.5g per 500mL... If that is their direction, they probably are a pre-mixture of the nutrients and the agar-agar powder. Only half-ish of that mixture is agar-agar if that's the case. The proportions we're discussing here are JUST about agar-agar powder, such as for preparing the complete recipe oneself from separate ingredients, not just adding a pre-mixture to water.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Guardian187
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21129689 - 01/16/15 03:09 PM (9 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: That's 20.5g per 500mL... If that is their direction, they probably are a pre-mixture of the nutrients and the agar-agar powder. Only half-ish of that mixture is agar-agar if that's the case. The proportions we're discussing here are JUST about agar-agar powder, such as for preparing the complete recipe oneself from separate ingredients, not just adding a pre-mixture to water.
I see, thanks for clarifying!
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GoodyMcLuvin
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Guardian187]
#21144201 - 01/19/15 01:41 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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I disagree. If V is correct, then regular lawn grass seed would be the "BEST" all purpose grain by far.
-------------------- *I graduated from the corner, my respect be my diploma,I went OG for the dollars, Js thought I went to college*
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Mushroom_J
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: GoodyMcLuvin]
#21144398 - 01/19/15 02:15 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's the best master grain at least. With a quart jar.. you can inoculate at least 50 other jars. So many seeds per spoon full
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Mushroom_J]
#21144637 - 01/19/15 02:59 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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^^^ that is correct. It's the best master grain - BY FAR. Regardless of how you grow, if you expand with grain-to-grain you should keep a couple pounds of gs around for your master jars. Even if seed costs you x5 as much as other grains (which is doubtful) it saves you money and cooker runs to use it to expand.
These days I only use grass seed for, and suggest it for, 4 uses only: Master jars for easy strong and speedy grain-to-grain inoculation, Growing invitro without casing layers, Vtek for QUICK growing since it requires very little consolidation (if any since the casing is colonized under tight lid too) and flushes out most of its capacity in 2-3 flushes, And being the PERFECT (read: ONLY) grain for my Culturing Tech (despite that I used brown rice when the pics for the tek were taken), which I hope you've read.
Turns out grass seed is slightly inferior as a spawn grain. Not enough that it isn't just as viable as an option for it as others, but to where there's little point in spending extra on it. It's lightness and spread makes it take up 120% as much space as rice does, as I discovered in my inclusive grain comparison of the two. That means it takes 120% as many jars and thus cooker runs to get the same amount of grain nutrition to use. That has some up-swings, such as reducing the impact of failures and possibly increasing one's yield-per-grain, but unless going for any of the advantages above one might as well choose oats, rye, millet or milo (birdseed)
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Edmunter
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21166041 - 01/23/15 04:47 AM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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Can you add food colouring to the GWA to get a better definition of your culture?
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GoodyMcLuvin
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#21186307 - 01/27/15 12:34 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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When prepared this way should grass seed be able to pass the toilet paper test like rye, or should it have more moisture to account for the pc? I'm doing this now to make a grain petri. I'm currently waiting for the plant fert to be digested by bacteria. And could spent coffee grounds be added to the jars before the PC? I ask because I was going to let the mini grow play out, and wanted to experiment with the potency. Thoughts?
-------------------- *I graduated from the corner, my respect be my diploma,I went OG for the dollars, Js thought I went to college*
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Edmunter
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: GoodyMcLuvin]
#21211046 - 02/01/15 01:37 PM (9 years, 2 months ago) |
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The grain waater agar is great! Really fast clearly defined cultures.
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Psilosopherr
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Edmunter]
#22363173 - 10/11/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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odd results with the flash hydration prep. I poured boiling water into a plastic shoe-box containing rye berries and let it soak for 24 hours. (it was inside of two other shoe-box totes to help retain heat. the lid was on too)
When I opened it up quite a few grains had burst. Did I maybe boil the water too hard? Or maybe it retained heat for too long? I don't know, burst grains were the last thing I'd expect this tek to yield.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Psilosopherr]
#22363487 - 10/11/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hm, interesting. Yeah part of the point of a hard boil then pour is that it takes particularities like those out of the picture. The bursting almost assuredly happened while the water was still very hot so the soak time isn't what caused it. A little shoebox shouldn't hold water too long. Dunno for sure. Maybe taking the edge off your boil could help. I typically use(d) that prep style for larger batches of grains.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Psilosopherr
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#22363536 - 10/11/15 02:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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thanks for the input! I had used a lid to get the boil going extra hard this time before pouring. That was probably the last straw now that i think about it.
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Boogens
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#23521548 - 08/08/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Psilosopherr
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Boogens]
#23521773 - 08/08/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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jphil
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#24945061 - 01/26/18 11:39 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Flash Hydration prep: The aim of this preparation is a bit different. We want to bring the grains just short of both fully cooked and fully hydrated.
Bring to a rolling boil 2x-3x the volume of water as the volume of dry grains to be prepared – 2x for grass seed...
With the grains in a tote on the floor next to you, take the boiling water right from the stove and pour it into them...
Water should come a bit above the top of the grains. The grains will rise over the coming hour...
Wait an additional hour or three (depending) after the grains have expanded before straining...
... but I suggest you let them soak longer! It may be a bit better to under-do it than over-do it, but over-doing it does not come easy with this grain preparation...
Grass seed is ready to go anywhere around 2 hours after hydration, since the greater amount of water stuck between the grains after straining will finish their hydration in the cooker. It is a very friendly grain when prepared nicely.
Strain for just a few minutes: This is what makes this grain approach so easy & once learned works perfectly every time... Since the grains aren't so heavily cooked and hydrated by this prep, the moisture on the grains after just a few minutes of straining is perfect to finish hydration & stop any burning/drying. ...
After the initial hydrating heat treatment we allow 24-28 hours for contaminant mold spores and bacterial endospores to germinate. Then we repeat the heat treatment to destroy those contaminants and leave behind a far reduced spectra of bacteria. ...
If you only boiled&soaked once before straining and loading, or used the flash-hydrate preparation to do the same, you need a second heat treatment. The microwave is perfect for this...
Lids loose if the grains are hydrated nicely. Lids off for part of the time if you may be concerned with the grains being too wet. Microwave for 7-8 minutes depending on how many containers you have in there...
Like said above, 24-28 hours after return to normal temperature they're ready for sterilization!
_______________________________________________________
REMEMBER: There are slight modifications in the water and heat times of these preparations for different grains...
I'm a little confused as to what the instructions are for grain prep here. If I want to use grass seed, and only plan on doing 12 x 20oz containers, that's only 3 cups of grass seed (3 cups dry -> 6 cups wet, 1/2 cup per container)?
So I boil water, pour over, and let sit for 1 + 3 = 4 hours. Or is it 1 + 2 hours for grass seed? Or just 2 hours?
Then strain.
Then let it sit for 24 hours.
Then microwave, and put in containers for pressure cooking.
Is this correct? In some other teks I read, it seemed like waiting for endospore germination wasn't necessary. Could I skip the 24 hour wait? If not I read in another post that 10 hours between heat treatments should be enough. I also don't have a microwave, so how would I do a second heat treatment?
Thanks for this amazing Tek!
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: jphil]
#24945076 - 01/26/18 11:56 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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This could maybe use an update. The 24hr wait is especially for fert ferment treatments. When not doing that, like when preparing seed for master grain jars, I just boil it hard in plenty of water.
Any way is fine. I typically use a stove to boil. The microwave way is if you did all the boiling necessary in the first round and loaded them into a container.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (01/27/18 11:15 AM)
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jphil
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#24946552 - 01/27/18 04:54 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the reply, glad to see you're still active!
So just to clarify, hard boil the seed in plenty of water, strain, and then pack for the pressure cooker. You don't let it soak at all after boiling? How long do you boil for?
I got the plastic ziploc screw top pint containers and even some 9.6 oz, how long would you pressure cook for?
I also asked a question in you casing thread, I was curious how you would prepare the top soil without a microwave, double boil?
I know you've written that it's possible to fruit grass grain without casing, but I'm assuming casing makes it grow better from your results with brown rice.
Edited by jphil (01/27/18 06:30 PM)
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jphil
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: jphil] 1
#24948297 - 01/28/18 11:26 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nevermind, finally found the info in your PODS TEK: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
Quote:
Violet said: For Grass Seed containers ...
Measure out about 110-120 mL volume of dry seed for each container you intend to make, presuming that the seeds will expand to over double their original dry volume. Measured by weight, this would be 50-60 (~55) grams of grass seed for each container, about 1/8 of a pound of seed.
Start with 4 times the volume of water as the seed. Keep in mind some may steam away while boiling. Bring the water and seeds up to a boil in a pot.
Once at a boil, reduce the heat some to maintain a steady rolling boil, not a crazy wild boil that could build up and spill out. Just enough to keep it rolling. ...
20-25 minutes at a boil is a good time to keep in mind for grass seed.
After this period of time, pour everything from the pot through a strainer to catch the seed. ...
Toss the grains around in the strainer for a bit, until you see that little drips from it each shake. I usually do this for about a minute. ...
At this point you're ready to load your containers with the seed, then sterilize.
Boiled & strained grass seed is loaded up 1/4 the way. This should be 1 cup of grain, or up to 250mL volume.
Sterilized for at least 60 minutes at 15psi Beginners may do well to start with 80min and reduce from there once they know they're pressure cooking correctly. Remember to blast the heat and let the air vent out until there's pure steam coming out of the vent. Probably longer than you think. You don't want to pressurize air, only pure steam. ...
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thelanzii
Registered: 11/13/12
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: jphil]
#25023953 - 02/26/18 01:53 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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how many grams of grass seed per quart jar? How many cups per quart jar? didn't see it in the op I doubt it differs much from other grains cup wise im just curious about the weight
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Coyote Bruce
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Violet]
#26661583 - 05/10/20 04:01 AM (3 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you cook rice like the Japanese do, there is no necessity for removing excess water. Doing it so that it is only partially boiled (so that your jar does not turn into a mass of gel) means putting 1.5 times as much water in the pot as the volume of rice you are going to use. Normally this would be 1.75 - 2 times that volume, depending on taste, but we want rice that is not fully cooked. I usually stir when adding the rice so all the grains are wet.
Next cover your pot and bring it to a simmer. Simmer until all the water is absorbed but NEVER stir rice when doing it this way. If so, it WILL come out sticky and be harder to work with. The way you see if there is any water left on the bottom of the pan is by putting a spatula directly down into the mass of grain, vertically, until it comes flush with the bottom. Then slowly and gently pull just enough of the grain to one side to see the bottom. If the water is gone, you're good and you can pull the spatula out but if it is not ready, pull it out carefully, trying to disturb as little of the rice as possible. It is better to have a little sticking to the bottom than not. You can leave the very bottom layer there if it's stuck. That way, the remaining grains you keep from this pot will be ready to use and pretty dry.
It is important to watch rice pretty close when you do it this way. Once it starts to stick, it will burn rather quickly thereafter. This works for any grain but the amount of water will vary depending on species and I am not sure if any other grains besides rice have that sticking problem. It's the only one I've seen glob up like that.
If nothing else, now your stir fry will have rice that isn't clumped up and gooey. Cheers!!
Edited by Coyote Bruce (05/10/20 04:03 AM)
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marvins
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: Coyote Bruce] 1
#26679206 - 05/18/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Coyote Bruce said: If you cook rice like the Japanese do, there is no necessity for removing excess water. Doing it so that it is only partially boiled (so that your jar does not turn into a mass of gel) means putting 1.5 times as much water in the pot as the volume of rice you are going to use. Normally this would be 1.75 - 2 times that volume, depending on taste, but we want rice that is not fully cooked. I usually stir when adding the rice so all the grains are wet.
Next cover your pot and bring it to a simmer. Simmer until all the water is absorbed but NEVER stir rice when doing it this way. If so, it WILL come out sticky and be harder to work with. The way you see if there is any water left on the bottom of the pan is by putting a spatula directly down into the mass of grain, vertically, until it comes flush with the bottom. Then slowly and gently pull just enough of the grain to one side to see the bottom. If the water is gone, you're good and you can pull the spatula out but if it is not ready, pull it out carefully, trying to disturb as little of the rice as possible. It is better to have a little sticking to the bottom than not. You can leave the very bottom layer there if it's stuck. That way, the remaining grains you keep from this pot will be ready to use and pretty dry.
It is important to watch rice pretty close when you do it this way. Once it starts to stick, it will burn rather quickly thereafter. This works for any grain but the amount of water will vary depending on species and I am not sure if any other grains besides rice have that sticking problem. It's the only one I've seen glob up like that.
If nothing else, now your stir fry will have rice that isn't clumped up and gooey. Cheers!!
So you make brown rice grain with this tek, 1.5x water for 1x rice. Do you have any pictures of your jars? Im planning on doing this tonight because i only could find brown rice in my zone.
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lucidasans
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Re: Grain Prep Tek • All Grains, featuring Brown Rice & Grass Seed [Re: marvins]
#26683020 - 05/20/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Guys, I have a question and didnt find answer.
When strain the brown rice, I need to wash in cold water or just let them strain hot? Violet said the need to strain immediately, so I don't know how to
-------------------- All things are infinite things.
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