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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18909684 - 09/30/13 03:02 AM (1 year, 1 day ago)

I have think lots of times to obtain this cactus species.

Price is very high but I don't matter the price, still somehow I have forgot to get this genus to my collection.. I should buy some next summer! Have been think lots of getting aztekium plants to my garden.:dancer:

So missing link has been found then? I think it takes long time before nurseries start to sell these plants as this label.

Even these species isn't so big, still I have problems to get more space at the moment so cannot obtain much of plants now..


--------------------
   
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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: intelligentlife]
    #18909705 - 09/30/13 03:11 AM (1 year, 1 day ago)

They are very pricey. Some going as much as $700US. Well anyways I am about 4 hours from the place these cacti call home but Mexico right now is at war and going over is almost a death sentence. It would he nice to get a tour guide and go.


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18909853 - 09/30/13 05:19 AM (1 year, 22 hours ago)

I have found price range 20-60€ and size range 1-4cm.. Ofc depends on species.. Never had a chance to buy big one but I consider this species 2cm size as a "big"

I am very interested of the cactus, price is too high and I have limited space but I am sure I will buy one 2-3cm size cactus or if I had money I buy lots. Nurseries doesn't usually have ~500€ price this species in europe.. Lophophora cactus species can be very big plants sold around there. They can be get at price range from 2-900€ easily from nurseries.

Also trichocereus is one species what can be obtained from small to big columns.

I don't know does the mescaline have role with this but never heard someone consume peyote plants in europe, they are just too expensive to do that. Also I have heard aztekiums are containing mescaline but never been used as traditional ways afaik.

I have look photos from this cactus from the wild, they seems to grow at straight cliff walls at somewhere up instead of they are growing at the ground level. I don't know for sure but lots of pictures I have seen they grow at totaly vertical wall as big size and several meters above ground level. Some lophophoras has been found too to grow similar places and almost without no soil at all.

I am interested of all species what is slow growing or hard to cultivate. Ortegocactus Magdougallii are in my mind very interesting cactus.. I sold my grafted plants but kept plants on it's own roots, they need to be very poor rocky soil to prevent rot.. That's what interest me about the species cause watering is more than hard.. I should obtain few aztekiums too and learn to cultivate them as well.. I have nice small clay pots actually what I can use to grow this species.. Many plants in same pot would be nice. The price of these are not nice but understanding how slow growing cactus species aztekium are, I am understanding very well the price, still haven't found big specimens from nurseries at high prices, probably at auctions this species can be found at big size.

Do anyone can advive why this grow so slow? Cause this is very very rot prone and cannot be watered or it's just not grow so fast. Compared to peyote.. peyote seems to be fast growing cactus and growth can be easily seen.. Do you know will this species needs actual cold shock in case to get it flowering? I have seen few different species what flowers without dramatic cold shock at dormancy, just short day and long dry period with shrinking makes cacti to flower at summer.

I probably put this species to my list of plants I buy next. I have always looked photos from google and especially aztekium ritterii is the one what I love as appearance.. It's just one beauty slow grower along few other slow growers :bow2:


--------------------
   
Trichocereus Hybrids from seed    Lophophora plants from seed

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InvisibleTangich

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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18910636 - 09/30/13 12:09 PM (1 year, 15 hours ago)

This plant gives me a boner every time I see it. Can't wait for the seeds to become more accessible, even tough that will probably take several years...
I find Aztekium species one of the most fascinating cacti, and Astrophytum myriostigma is my favorite plant, so an Aztekium that is shaped like a myriostigma... Yeah, well, that's it, the holy grail of cacti.


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OfflineNagualaPawer
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18910791 - 09/30/13 01:04 PM (1 year, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
They are very pricey. Some going as much as $700US. Well anyways I am about 4 hours from the place these cacti call home but Mexico right now is at war and going over is almost a death sentence. It would he nice to get a tour guide and go.




hahaha we mexicans live in war w/o knowing it. ^^

dont trust the media.

Very nice aztekium species, do want.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: NagualaPawer]
    #18911473 - 09/30/13 04:11 PM (1 year, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

NagualaPawer said:
Quote:

ferrel_human said:
They are very pricey. Some going as much as $700US. Well anyways I am about 4 hours from the place these cacti call home but Mexico right now is at war and going over is almost a death sentence. It would he nice to get a tour guide and go.




hahaha we mexicans live in war w/o knowing it. ^^

dont trust the media.

Very nice aztekium species, do want.




Its not media. When I go ov er amd the first thing that greets me is a war tank, well the mexican army is either lying or hiding something. Either way I try to stay away.

Rememmber that the media is threatened b y the cartels so they are forbidden to report anything.


--------------------
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Looking for rooted salvia cuttings. I have all sorts of plants for trade.:pm:


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18911484 - 09/30/13 04:14 PM (1 year, 11 hours ago)

Next pay check im gonna invest the $30 for the five seeds. Seems excessive but i believe it to be worth it.


--------------------
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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18911638 - 09/30/13 04:50 PM (1 year, 11 hours ago)

It comes out to more since the shipping alone is 14 dollars :crankey: So nearly 40 dollars for 5 seeds if you get only those seeds. Better have good germination rate at that price.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: modern.shaman]
    #18911874 - 09/30/13 05:53 PM (1 year, 10 hours ago)

I was reading the ne xerophilia pdf and the man Who discovered it is giving it away to instiutes and cactus lover alike. He is mass propagating it and in a few year time he will divulge the location site. He says he would feel very guilty if they found the site and the plant becomes threatened. I would never personally buy a field collected plant. They are expensive but price is not the issue. The issue here is the disturbance of an ecosystem. People are greedy.


--------------------
Fuck the "New Age", join the Stone Age :headbanger:

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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18911952 - 09/30/13 06:13 PM (1 year, 9 hours ago)

Well that's some good news.  Let's hope seeds become abundant and not habitat plants.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: modern.shaman]
    #18913182 - 09/30/13 11:02 PM (1 year, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

modern.shaman said:
It comes out to more since the shipping alone is 14 dollars :crankey: So nearly 40 dollars for 5 seeds if you get only those seeds. Better have good germination rate at that price.



I call it an investment.:shrug2:


--------------------
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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #18913699 - 10/01/13 12:45 AM (1 year, 3 hours ago)

It's only 14 bucks for good chance to get fine seeds.. If you have proper vendor.:thumbup:


--------------------
   
Trichocereus Hybrids from seed    Lophophora plants from seed

Proposed European Citizens' Initiative: Weed Like to Talk!
https://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiative/REQ-ECI-2013-000023/public/?lang=en

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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: intelligentlife]
    #18914164 - 10/01/13 03:04 AM (1 year, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

intelligentlife said:
It's only 14 bucks for good chance to get fine seeds.. If you have proper vendor.:thumbup:



Thats plus the 30$ they cost. If they were $14 I would buy more than 5.

Well I messaged my good friend and cacti seed dealer Bettina KoehresKoehres and she said she is currently try to aquire seed. It wont be long though.:datass:


--------------------
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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human] * 1
    #19276933 - 12/15/13 12:54 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

http://xerophilia.ro/

There is an article on A. valdezii in the latest issue of Xerophilia.
Unfortunately it is concerning seed distribution and black market trade.


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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #19277068 - 12/15/13 01:32 AM (9 months, 11 days ago)

Thank you for the link. :thumbup: Really wish I could afford to pick up a handful of A. valdezii seeds but holy crap are they pricy right now.  I'm sure the price will come down over time though.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #19278308 - 12/15/13 11:13 AM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Yeah really nice pdf!  I don't have any aztekiums :sad:


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19278881 - 12/15/13 01:24 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

All I have is aztekium ritteri seedlings from seed harvssted from the plant. Then it died so the legacy will live on and I have 100 aztetekium hintoni seed awaiting spring space. I plan to move my windowsill seedling to make room for the new crop.


--------------------
Fuck the "New Age", join the Stone Age :headbanger:

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #19280384 - 12/15/13 07:31 PM (9 months, 10 days ago)

Awesome, post up some pix when you do.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #19431431 - 01/17/14 02:49 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Taken from a page on facebk  Threatened Mexico.

"Well I think that before we talk about the problems faced today by this species we must mention the because it is so appreciated. Recently a few Mexican biologists found a new species of Cactus which now bears the name of Aztekium valdezii this tiny but appreciated species is now highly coveted by collectors both that they have paid thousands of dollars for a copy.
As a unique and new species is protected and all marketed this plant is illegal. Those who presumed to possess this plant should be ashamed since removing this type of species seriously harms its small population giving rise to it go away.

The new news is that this plant is auctioned on the black market for the price of $63.500 Mexican pesos that was what paid the winner of this auction in Thailand.
You can believe that!! .

The conservation of the species is very difficult since many times the people are unaware the importance of these ecosystems represent and only see the species as a business, no matter anything else. They become foreign plunder and not we realize it, to then sell them or play them in their countries.

Education is a fundamental basis to be able to think of conservation, is why this means we try to inform and make aware the people of all the problems that exist.

Would that you're leaving to future generations? We destroy ecosystems to have houses, malls and highways no matter which species are there? After wanting to knock down those House to put artificial parks and green areas. Is that what happens? would that not give us account auto we are destroying?

Remember the conservation is possible with your participation!
You do not remove, nor buy wild species since this is a federal crime."

:sonofawebitch:  I don't own any aztekiums but I find this artical sad.  You would think a few botanists would remove seeds from the wild and get a large enough population growing for the market.  While withholding location details to protect the native habitat until it needs to be known for protection reasons. 


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Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (01/17/14 02:54 AM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: a new Aztekium.. [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19431866 - 01/17/14 06:26 AM (8 months, 8 days ago)

Sad article.

I have read similar articles about humans, even we build some "parks" to cities and leave forest areas untouched, there is still problem. Smaller the area we have left untouched, smaller the amount of ecosystem there will be.

I have think lots of this because I'm living at arctic, there is lots of wilderness, rare species of plants, rare mammals etc etc.. Yet there is enough space for these animals and only small roads are between them but it's a fact about whole ecosystem, more smaller forest we leave in the nature, more less there is total ecosystem.

I'm just afraid of future, arctic oil drilling and mineral mining there, and that how much it can destroy fragile habitat where actual growth season is only 2-4months.. I don't want to even imagine worst case scenarios about accidents and failures at oil industry. Why people move there to drill oil? Because global warming causes arctic sea loss it's ice and it's profitable over the summer but conditions where this all happens are to tough, possible oil leak to nature can have destroying effects over decades.

I see cacti also as fragile as my climate nature. If this happens too much and basically we prevent fragile slow growing species to spread in order to make money, it will destroy ecosystem.

I don't see it's bad if few cacti seeds are collected from habitat or maybe few wild specimens and therefor human should start to cultivate it's separated from nature and not anymore touch to nature at all.. But if mass harvesting of seeds happens with rare species it's not good.. Nothing excess what is actually profit making isn't good.

About peyote and it's history there in europe.. Long time ago the plants have been collected from the wild and started to grow over here but peyote and it's wide cultivation have been happened over decades..

I'm just afraid about this aztekium if people try to make a profit from species what have not been occur in cultivation in the past.. If this species have been found decades ago, this would be different thing an wild habitats would be left alone.

I'm not sure do you all understand what I mean but people really try to push new species of cactus very fast to market and trying to do profit from it.. And if this is the case it's new species, compared to how much people there are collecting rare cacti and cacti overall this is totally different thing compared to tens or hundred years back or so when peyote have been spread slowly around the world.. Now peyote is basically (if cultivation are counted) impossible to cause it's extinction in theory. But back then there was so small number of people and cacti was smaller business what is it today..

If this species are "released" trough control from wild to cultivation as small numbers as peyote or any other fragile slow grower decades ago, grow plants grafted for seed production and do it without ripping every seed away from nature this could work..

I think there are now more cactus collectors than ever have been and this cause the problem.. People doesn't want to wait new species so long and basically every seed are ripped off from habitat and they are worth of money lots in black market. Aztekium species would be very interesting anyway if we think about that not every seed grow to mature plant but some species can be very picky and grow only in so small area that even seed harvesting can lead to problems in long term..

I seriously hope when this business spread, wild seed or specimen collection stop and seeds are available trough cultivated specimens and plants are offspring of cultivated specimens. Luckily this plant afaik doesn't cause any psychedelic effects and are only ornamental plant so danger of mass harvesting the plant like peyote doesn't occur. But we can't still know do someone collect and smuggle specimens harvested from the wild for seed production.

We have to all agree human are so greed we just rip off mother nature one way or another, destroying habitats without thinking long them effects. But anyway, modern day demand is just too big for new species compared to demand decades ago. :rolleyes:

I don't have also any aztekium plants or so, also I don't have much of space to keep lots of plants and my plants are limited mostly to sacred ones.

Anyway, this is a problem hard to solve, lots of people doesn't understand the mother nature and ecosystem and money is the thing what matters, it's only paper and metal basically worthless. But however, we are all just offspring of survivors of mass extinctions from the past. Extinction of one species isn't still so bad thing in my mind compared to fragile area oil industry and mining what cause lots environmental disasters and therefor causes big problems with animals and plants what can in worst case wipe out lots of species at once.

If we think future, best case to get this species to business is just small amount of seed harvesting, we all know not every seed grow to mature plant or even germinate. Small scale cultivation should be lead slowly to bigger scale and then after decades only spread this species to collectors but money talks, money is time, time is money.. As we can read above, some just doesn't want to wait. Modern day demand causes this, if this would happen 100years ago and this species have been found, I don't think so this could have even be a problem back in the day because demand was so small.. I just hope competition doesn't go so big this results to mass seed harvesting for years to come and this species can't spread it's own seeds to it's habitat.

I know already from here arctic few endangered plants have been disappear because of human and some have been managed to rescue, some botanists know species what are so rare they doesn't even want to tell public where some rare arctic species occur.. I can relate lots about this problem to cacti by the way I see how slow the nature is there.. We have there different problems, foreign plants have been get there as ornament, they have been spread around and destroy native plants habitat and later on wipe out another species totally.. It's not fun to think about it no matter is habitat very hot desert or sub-arctic climate..
There are already people trying to get rid of garden plants spread to wild and they basically destroy native plants habitat and lead more than one species near to extinction.. These are kinda different thing but anyway I understand this whole dilemma about aztekium and big demand for ornament and therefor someone want to make money with this.. But these problems and problems at arctic are different with plants, but what are common with both of these are the fact ornamental cultivation wipe out species from their habitat, there is just different way and foreign species spread to wild and therefor cause native species to be endangered. Same factor is human and ornamental plant business. Luckily I'm at zone there is very hard to foreign species to spread but global warming have been caused the problem some species like cool and cold environment are at risk. There can be seen easily climate warming and effects of it.. Animals and plants have been said to extinct from nature, polar bear is one big example of this problem. Arctic sea ice disappearing open only opportunity for human to drill oil from arctic sea but flip side of the coin is climate warming will wipe out polar bears from wild.

These stuff are not directly related to cacti and so on but I want to say about the thing how much human effects to ecosystem already and because of us some animal and plant species have been already wiped out from their habitat.. There are already some projects by botanists who trying to save endangered plants from climate warming by move them more far away north to give more cooler climate and allow them to grow, but soon I can say in here arctic some plant will be wiped out not because of collecting but because of human and pollution and therefor climate warming. Some species are there so picky they grow only in very small areas where is just right pH, minerals, soil and another plants.. Some species can occur only in areas size of 3x3meter randomly around and they are very picky about where they even flower or grow.

I think humans will woke up too late to environmental disasters, and disaster can be "minor" like cactus seed collection or "major" like environmental disaster at oil and mining industry. These corporations doesn't care endangered species and don't think where they build their industry.. I'm worried about arctic climate and there all human caused problems can be seen due to global warming what have been gone too long in my mind. Sooner or later, mother earth will claim it's own back and wipe the humans off from this planet. It's just a matter of time.:yesnod:

Sorry about offtopic, I just wanted to share more problems about plants and animals and their extinctions, aztekium cactus species isn't the only one here.:sad:

There is just for example one beautiful but endangered and rare small plant from arctic climate. Basically it's illegal to pick this plant from wild in my country.

Only difference to cacti are temperature of the climate.

World are full of beautiful, hardy and rare plants!:cookiemonster:


Edited by intelligentlife (01/17/14 10:32 AM)


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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