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InvisibleSimplepowa
In Pursuit of Knowledge


Registered: 03/06/09
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6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala
    #18906709 - 09/29/13 01:35 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)

By Maria Korologou on September 21, 2013 in Archaeology, News

In the prehistoric settlement of Dikili Tash were discovered the oldest samples of wine that were ever recorded in Europe. The samples date back to 4200 BC and reverse existing data regarding the way of living during the Neolithic period.

The prehistoric site of Dikili Tash is located south east of Drama in Eastern Macedonia, Greece. It lies approximately 2 km from the ruins of the ancient city of Philippi and within the limits of the modern town of Krinides (Municipality of Kavala).

“It is an impressive and important discovery,” the archaeologist of the 17th Ephorate of Prehistoric and Classical Antiquities and co-director of the excavations at Dikili Tash Dimitra Malamidou told dimokratianews.gr. She explained that, “During the excavations that took place in a house on the archaeological site, called House 1, quantities of carbonized grape berries that had been pressed were discovered in pots, a fact which proves the extraction of juice from grapes.”

“So far, we knew that people drank wine in the Bronze Age (from the 12th century B.C. henceforth), but now we learn that the wine-making process was known long before that Age, since 4200 BC,” Malamidou stated. Based on the new findings occur new data regarding the consumption of wine, as well as the social groups of the Neolithic period.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/09/21/4200-year-old-wine-discovered-in-dikili-tash/


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---
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OfflineOk amoismis
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Simplepowa]
    #18907559 - 09/29/13 05:19 PM (11 months, 13 days ago)

:wineswim:      :yesnod2:

Interesting...

That's some pretty thoroughly aged wine right there. "4200 BC vintage, carbonized". Lol.

In all seriousness though, this is pretty interesting. If humans were capable of manufacturing wine that long ago then just imagine how long we've been using drugs that are more directly from nature...

:sanpedro:  :peyote:  :growshrooms:  :trees:  :highasfuck:  :amanita2:

(For some reason I thought a bunch of animations were appropriate for this serious and fascinating archaeological story...)


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Offlinehuffinglue
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Ok amoismis] * 1
    #18909492 - 09/30/13 01:36 AM (11 months, 13 days ago)

Why does pressed grapes=wine. Maybe they just wanted some grape juice... though I guess if they had the juice, it would ferment if left out a long time, wich isn't too unreasonable.


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I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: huffinglue]
    #18910574 - 09/30/13 11:40 AM (11 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

huffinglue said:
Why does pressed grapes=wine. Maybe they just wanted some grape juice... though I guess if they had the juice, it would ferment if left out a long time, wich isn't too unreasonable.




I'm assuming they found alcohol present or evidence that yeast was added to the grape juice.  Grape juice doesn't usually just ferment on its own.  Yeast is what causes the fermentation process, and is not naturally found in grape juice.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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OfflineCactilove
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18911255 - 09/30/13 03:10 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Could have been so natural yeast from the environment...:shrug:


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18911564 - 09/30/13 04:34 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

huffinglue said:
Why does pressed grapes=wine. Maybe they just wanted some grape juice... though I guess if they had the juice, it would ferment if left out a long time, wich isn't too unreasonable.




the carbonation indicates fermentation



Quote:

Shpongle1 said:


I'm assuming they found alcohol present or evidence that yeast was added to the grape juice.  Grape juice doesn't usually just ferment on its own.  Yeast is what causes the fermentation process, and is not naturally found in grape juice.




yeast is found on the skins of all fruit, look at a plum by the stem, see the white? thats yeast

i used plum as the example because of the color contrast, its harder to see on other fruit

edit:




--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
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Edited by hidenseek1 (09/30/13 04:36 PM)


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18912516 - 09/30/13 08:37 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:


I'm assuming they found alcohol present or evidence that yeast was added to the grape juice.  Grape juice doesn't usually just ferment on its own.  Yeast is what causes the fermentation process, and is not naturally found in grape juice.




yeast is found on the skins of all fruit, look at a plum by the stem, see the white? thats yeast

i used plum as the example because of the color contrast, its harder to see on other fruit





Cool.  But I never had wine where they left the skin of the grape in the bottle.  Nor am I convinced that the amount of yeast in those white spots on the skin would be enough to effectively make an alcoholic beverage like wine or beer.  And tell me again why we are trying to disprove the allegations that they found intentionally made wine in the first place?  I don't find it hard to believe.


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18912642 - 09/30/13 09:01 PM (11 months, 12 days ago)

wild yeast can tolerate alcohol levels around 2-4 % sometimes lower sometime higher depending on the strain

i would assume thats how they made it, how would they get yeast otherwise? i really dont know

lots of wine uses crushed berries in the primary and the liquid is siphoned into the secondary, that is why there isnt skin in bottles of wine


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever


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OfflineRun
Questioning my existance
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18914436 - 10/01/13 04:37 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

I'm not going to partake in the senseless arguing but rather take in and enjoy this small article that being said-
It is extremely cool that we have more evidence that an advance civilization existed around 4200BC. It leads me to imagine what else of intelligent activities these past civilizations engaged in that we are unaware of.

cool post:bubbles:


--------------------
You, me, this point in existence is undeniably so unique, we take everything for granite ,life , comprehension, feelings, thought, so accustomed to understanding that we've lost the meaning of fully understanding who we are..... we are the extra terrestrial, we are the unknown, we are the mystical...


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Offlineaussieshroomer1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Run]
    #18914488 - 10/01/13 05:08 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

awesome its amazing what they find


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Run]
    #18915116 - 10/01/13 10:56 AM (11 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Run said:
I'm not going to partake in the senseless arguing

cool post:bubbles:




i dont think its senseless arguing

not senseless because its sorta on topic

nor arguing because i dont think anyone got mad

i do think it has gone a bit far from the articles intention though


Quote:

Run said:
It is extremely cool that we have more evidence that an advance civilization existed around 4200BC.






its the tail end of the neolithic era, im not too surprised they could brew some booze, i mean agriculture started around the start of the era


Quote:

Run said:

It leads me to imagine what else of intelligent activities these past civilizations engaged in that we are unaware of.




who knows, its a good question though
i wish i had a answer for that one :lol:

maybe a lot of star gazing/ rock napping / getting genetically manipulated by aliens:tinfoil: / domesticating animal, questions like that make wish i had the brains to study this early history

i guess we know they brewed alcohol


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever


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OfflineRun
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18915395 - 10/01/13 12:12 PM (11 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

hidenseek1 said:
Quote:

Run said:
I'm not going to partake in the senseless arguing

cool post:bubbles:




i dont think its senseless arguing

not senseless because its sorta on topic

nor arguing because i dont think anyone got mad

i do think it has gone a bit far from the articles intention though


Quote:

Run said:
It is extremely cool that we have more evidence that an advance civilization existed around 4200BC.






its the tail end of the neolithic era, im not too surprised they could brew some booze, i mean agriculture started around the start of the era


Quote:

Run said:

It leads me to imagine what else of intelligent activities these past civilizations engaged in that we are unaware of.




who knows, its a good question though
i wish i had a answer for that one :lol:

maybe a lot of star gazing/ rock napping / getting genetically manipulated by aliens:tinfoil: / domesticating animal, questions like that make wish i had the brains to study this early history

i guess we know they brewed alcohol





aren't you a sharp tool in the shed. I find it senseless because it IS off topic when the article gives you all the information needed to know on what people are arguing about.

& to you're little analysis of my post. I do appreciate it =).If one cannot find wonder in the littlest of things then I think that person has lost the creative spark that is life.

  Furthermore,as for my curiosity goes toward the past in that particular time frame I need not to explain. These are but my questions, thanks for you're time to knit pick and dumb down my wonders, it really contributed a lot.What a sad existence people dwell in.


--------------------
You, me, this point in existence is undeniably so unique, we take everything for granite ,life , comprehension, feelings, thought, so accustomed to understanding that we've lost the meaning of fully understanding who we are..... we are the extra terrestrial, we are the unknown, we are the mystical...


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Run]
    #18915625 - 10/01/13 01:09 PM (11 months, 11 days ago)

meh, i posted in this thread because i do find anything about brewing interesting

i also post what i know in hopes of correction or further explanation on the topic, the original article seemed to confuse people as to why they knew it was wine or how wine was made back then

although i dont know how it was for sure made back then, im guessing as to how, from ways it can be made today, i remember one time i dropped a half bottle of cranberry juice under my bed, when i found it later it poofed like a pop when i opened it

well ill admit my existence is rather sad, i dont see this thread being a reflection of it:lol:

i still dont see the argument till we started arguing

Quote:

Furthermore,as for my curiosity goes toward the past in that particular time frame I need not to explain.




of course you dont, but id bet itd move the thread in a better direction, then an argument about arguing


you should probably put me on ignore or not respond to my posts, cause im bored right now, and will probably keep posting


--------------------
You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
pons asinorum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever


Edited by hidenseek1 (10/01/13 01:09 PM)


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OfflineCactilove
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18916313 - 10/01/13 03:43 PM (11 months, 11 days ago)

Ya'all be ridiculous.:hahthatsrich:


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OfflineTheBoomking
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Cactilove]
    #18920027 - 10/02/13 10:52 AM (11 months, 11 days ago)

spongle - im not even a wine o but I know that wine can come unfiltered or filtered

Run - your being condescending, and in my opinion the discussion the article sparked is interesting


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: TheBoomking]
    #18920777 - 10/02/13 02:12 PM (11 months, 10 days ago)

Quote:

TheBoomking said:
spongle - im not even a wine o but I know that wine can come unfiltered or filtered




I know you're not a wine-o if you think that that refers to filtering out the skin of grapes, which you must, as the only thing I said that might make that appear relevant to me was that the skin is not part of the wine.  Unfiltered wine doesn't mean they leave grape skins in the bottle...  :lol:


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There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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OfflineTheBoomking
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: Shpongle1]
    #18941477 - 10/06/13 07:54 PM (11 months, 6 days ago)

:rolleyes:

then enlighten me please

:zaphod:


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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: TheBoomking]
    #18942161 - 10/06/13 10:09 PM (11 months, 6 days ago)

I don't understand why you're rolling your eyes...  You made a comment insinuating that even with as little as you know, you know enough to basically say that what I said was wrong.  And I'm simply saying unfiltered wine doesn't mean you have a bottle with a bunch of grape skin in it.

The only reason it was even brought up was because people were saying "Who says its wine and not grape juice that fermented over time.  There's yeast in grape skin so its possible."  And I just didn't see any reason to be skeptical that what they found was really old wine.  Even so, who would make grape juice and leave the skins in it?  Unless they were intentionally fermenting it.  It just didn't make any sense to me to question the claim that the article made in the first place and I was stating that opinion and giving my reasoning.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Offlinehuffinglue
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: TheBoomking]
    #18942170 - 10/06/13 10:12 PM (11 months, 6 days ago)

The only reason I brought it up is because the artical said they found wine, and then went on to say that they found crushed grapes, wich proved they made grape juice. It never said anything about yeast or fermenting or anything. I just found that odd. Didn't mean to 'derail' the thread or anything. If you question your existance, why not question this? I think its interesting how and if they fermented it. I know yeast is floating all around us, and its found on fruits, just a fun thing to think about...

I bet the first person ever that got drunk only had really old fruit juice of some kind to drink and was like, "wow! This shit makes you feel loose! Let's try to make some more!". Lol. I've always thought about the 'first drink' a lot. Just friendly pondering man.


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I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: 6,000-year-old Wine Discovered in Kavala [Re: huffinglue]
    #18942464 - 10/06/13 11:39 PM (11 months, 6 days ago)

I've wondered about the first incidence of alcoholic drinks too and how exactly it occurred and who decided it was a good idea to drink some most likely horrible tasting drink.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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