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OfflineMisto
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Starting to think this is all bullshit * 1
    #18576077 - 07/18/13 03:15 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Ive been down this spiritual path for years now, taking psychedelics, studying spirituality, Buddhism, etc, and today i came to the realization that its all bullshit to get people through the day.

Maybe im just having a bad day, maybe its been to long since ive last tripped to see the true beauty of it all. I've tried to "wake up" become enlightened whatever you wanna call it. I've givin my fair share of good deeds and put out good karma all day everyday with nothing to show for it. Nothing ever comes back to me in good ways, i never feel anything different then any other day. Enlightenment is just an illusory mind state, almost a psychosis because you just want it to be that way so badly that you perceive its working when in true reality its not at all.

Maybe now ive truly become enlightened? :rolleyes:

Sorry just had to get this off my chest.

anyone else feeling the same way?


--------------------


Edited by Misto (07/18/13 03:16 PM)


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OfflineMad Season
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18576093 - 07/18/13 03:24 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I don't really think spirituality has anything to do with good or bad deeds good and bad are just words. Spirituality really has nothing to do with emotions or anything. I think it's more about the acknowledgement of living today. To only worry about today and not the past or future (like you are doing) I think spirituality is just knowing to live in the now. Carpe diem. Seize the day. Truth is all it really is is just existing with no worries and no problems. No joys and no lies. We don't know if emotions are a lie and we don't know if everything and everyone around us is a lie. So why worry about them all? Worry about yourself and seize the day.


--------------------
car window art

If I come off as an asshole you know it's because I love you and want you to be healthy.


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OfflineMisto
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Mad Season]
    #18576105 - 07/18/13 03:27 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I agree, things have just been going to shit lately. Just have had the feeling that all this time I've put into it has been for nothing. Not to say i haven't learned anything by what I've done but in the long run nothing has changed in my mind.


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OfflineSse
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18576117 - 07/18/13 03:31 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

It's a gradual process to ease the unnecessary chatter of the brain/subconscious this includes expectations/concepts, your right everything is bullshit it's all subjective. Equanimity and patience are working well for me atm but I am still going to go through a lot of turmoil. It's part of the process.

As the light grows brighter the shadows become darker, no pain no gain.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineMad Season
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18576125 - 07/18/13 03:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I don't think anything should change your mind. Your mind and spirit have nothing to do with each other. Just pure existence is truth. Our minds can be as true as they are delusional. Only you can decide what's right and wrong. Only person that changes their mind is themselves. If you feel no need to change then you shouldn't. Still worries are just a way to stress out. Especially worries from the past. If you live in the moment you wouldn't even care you've been the same so far. Because today is a new day and yesterday isn't even real anymore.


--------------------
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If I come off as an asshole you know it's because I love you and want you to be healthy.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18576240 - 07/18/13 04:05 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Misto said:
Ive been down this spiritual path for years now, taking psychedelics, studying spirituality, Buddhism, etc, and today i came to the realization that its all bullshit to get people through the day.

Maybe im just having a bad day, maybe its been to long since ive last tripped to see the true beauty of it all. I've tried to "wake up" become enlightened whatever you wanna call it. I've givin my fair share of good deeds and put out good karma all day everyday with nothing to show for it. Nothing ever comes back to me in good ways, i never feel anything different then any other day. Enlightenment is just an illusory mind state, almost a psychosis because you just want it to be that way so badly that you perceive its working when in true reality its not at all.

Maybe now ive truly become enlightened? :rolleyes:

Sorry just had to get this off my chest.

anyone else feeling the same way?





Of course.  I don't think it's all bullshit however, it's just way over promoted as a fix all for life.


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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OfflineSse
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #18576286 - 07/18/13 04:18 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I think it's bullshit from a conceptual subjective standpoint, it's easier for me if I don't put to much into the concepts and just experience for myself without keeping a template in my consciousness.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto] * 1
    #18576317 - 07/18/13 04:26 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Misto said:
Ive been down this spiritual path for years now, taking psychedelics, studying spirituality, Buddhism, etc, and today i came to the realization that its all bullshit to get people through the day.

Maybe im just having a bad day, maybe its been to long since ive last tripped to see the true beauty of it all. I've tried to "wake up" become enlightened whatever you wanna call it. I've givin my fair share of good deeds and put out good karma all day everyday with nothing to show for it. Nothing ever comes back to me in good ways, i never feel anything different then any other day. Enlightenment is just an illusory mind state, almost a psychosis because you just want it to be that way so badly that you perceive its working when in true reality its not at all.

Maybe now ive truly become enlightened? :rolleyes:

Sorry just had to get this off my chest.

anyone else feeling the same way?




Its all bullshit when it is without meditation.


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Offlineurbannerd
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Sse]
    #18576347 - 07/18/13 04:33 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Sometimes I feel the same way as you OP but its best to understand
the fact that even though nothing has dramatically changed for you
because of  these things that it is still better for you to live with
the train of thought rather than being negative all the time and thinking
its all BS.

plus you cant go around expecting good karma cause youve done good things
life just has a way of handing that to you when the time is right.


--------------------
Soaking in the energy of the universe since '91


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OfflineSse
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: urbannerd]
    #18576397 - 07/18/13 04:42 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

true and bullshit can be a very good thing for cultivation


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18576871 - 07/18/13 06:37 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Misto said:
Ive been down this spiritual path for years now, taking psychedelics, studying spirituality, Buddhism, etc, and today i came to the realization that its all bullshit to get people through the day.

Maybe im just having a bad day, maybe its been to long since ive last tripped to see the true beauty of it all. I've tried to "wake up" become enlightened whatever you wanna call it. I've givin my fair share of good deeds and put out good karma all day everyday with nothing to show for it. Nothing ever comes back to me in good ways, i never feel anything different then any other day. Enlightenment is just an illusory mind state, almost a psychosis because you just want it to be that way so badly that you perceive its working when in true reality its not at all.

Maybe now ive truly become enlightened? :rolleyes:

Sorry just had to get this off my chest.

anyone else feeling the same way?




No, Enlightenment is not an illusion, it is by definition the opposite of illusion. My own mind constantly deceives me. I lost my job of 27 years, and despite the fact that I have over a year's net salary in my checking account, that I can begin to pull down a pension next year, and that I have a tax shelter and a stock portfolio, my mind has been given to exactly the same panic reactions that I experienced the first time I got fired in 1985! But 28 years of increasing salary and frugal living, I am not in any financial danger. I have zero debt and no mortgage, and yet, my mind has been generating these old thoughts to which I have been reacting emotionally, even waking me out of deep sleep. :eek:  So, I've been reading The Power of Now medicinally, and Tolle keeps returning my mind to the Reality of the moment, which is fearless. My fearful thoughts are the illusion, and whenever I forget the Real, and get lost in mere thought. I realize that I've become unconscious again - not asleep, but lost, caught up in and identified with these thoughts.

This is like The Matrix trilogy. If you die in The Matrix, you die outside of it too. But, if you have the sustained insight of Neo, you either dodge or stop what is dangerous. I have to enter into my fearful thoughts and see through them, thus stripping them of their ability to deceive me. These thoughts and consequent feelings are sufficiently real to cause me anxiety and panic attacks IF I believe them to be Real. Seeing through them, the fear leaves and so do my symptoms. This is Enlightenment. Unfortunately, it doesn't remain a constant condition, so I continue to work on it because it is Really Real, not just apparently Real.



"Fear not."


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18576896 - 07/18/13 06:42 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I dealt with the same fears when I quit my job and knew I would have no income other than a small amount of interest income until I hit 62, seven years later.(two years to go)  I had to deal with that a lot.  It still can grab me on rare occasions but due to circumstance I have much more money now than when I quit that job.  All that worry for absolutely nothing. Yet  I had no choice but to suffer it and do my best to reassure myself over and over and over and over and over etc.


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #18577644 - 07/18/13 08:30 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I dealt with the same fears when I quit my job and knew I would have no income other than a small amount of interest income until I hit 62, seven years later.(two years to go)  I had to deal with that a lot.  It still can grab me on rare occasions but due to circumstance I have much more money now than when I quit that job.  All that worry for absolutely nothing. Yet  I had no choice but to suffer it and do my best to reassure myself over and over and over and over and over etc.




Thanks for the reification. :thumbup:  Are you suggesting that you're going to take Social Security as soon as you hit 62? You came into some money recently. Did you put that money to work for you by investing it so that you could draw additional income?

I inherited a stock portfolio several years ago.  My monthly statements estimates how much income is generated in a year, but I've never contacted my advisor for any. My wife tells me we should live on our savings which is making no real interest and leave the investment money alone, which is, until after the new year. I worked from January til June. By January 1st, we'll both be unemployed. I haven't resigned yet (waiting to see if they'll grant a medical leave for 6 months to keep medical insurance costs down), but I may have to if they refuse and want me to become a school teacher. :wowz: I can't work on leave and they check. :mad2: I won't retire until next year at 61 (and then take only a 5% yearly reduction for life - 5% for each year shy of age 62).

I've already applied for jobs because I panicked, and I'd forgotten how old I was, objectively speaking, :eek: Worse yet, in South Florida it is next to impossible to land a job unless one is fluent in Spanish. Even my former supervisor and friend who is Hispanic but is not sufficiently fluent to do counseling cannot find a position. Ageism PLUS non-fluency. Miami-Dade County is 65% Hispanic. The rest of the planet is learning English but not in this ignorant and infected penile peninsula of the USA. I'm gonna try private practice one last time before I accept my fate as an old fart.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                :fart:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18577810 - 07/18/13 08:57 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I think we are talking classic death anxiety here.  Especially where you said you forgot how old you were. 
:lol:  I have it too but I based my retirement on a suicide within or before 17 years tops. I would have been out of money at that point so it took all my courage and Veritas helped me a lot there with her support.  However since then I've gotten a second and unexpected inheritance that was substantial considering my lifestyle.  Now I've trained myself to rarely even think about how much I have and I spend fairly freely. I put away my yearly budget and just let it ride. However I'm fairly frugal by nature and habit.  I'm sure I have a lot less than you do but I feel completely rich and live day to day. There's a big part of me that wants out of this life anyway. Certainly I'm not very attached on an intellectual level.  This rock sucks imo. :satansmoking:


--------------------

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

A human life is a journey into darkness -unknown



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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #18578216 - 07/18/13 10:32 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Yes like you guys are saying, getting lost in thoughts all the time is living in illusion and enlightenment is the opposite of that. People who dont believe in enlightenment, in my opinion, are simply people who gave up on the process of gaining control over their minds. Whether one can reach full 100% complete enlightenment and be God in human form in their lifetime is irrelevant. There are benefits to gaining control over your mind long before you attain God-realization.

FOr me, I am not fully enlightened. I still find myself getting carried off by negative thoughts. The difference is now when I become aware of that, I bring my attention back to a calm awareness of the present moment instead of giving all my attention over the negative thoughts and allowing them to make me miserable.

This simple thing is the most valuable thing in my life because it is the only thing which is helpful at all times. All the other joys of life appear and dissappear. Like for example, lets say you had a wonderful beautiful wife that made you very happy. Then she died. What would you do? But if you learn how to live in peace of mind, then no matter what happens you are always better off than you would be with a racing mind.

Quote:


Of course.  I don't think it's all bullshit however, it's just way over promoted as a fix all for life.




It is a fix all but the problem with promoting it as such is that it can be an extremely difficult process that requires one to go through much pain, struggle and frustration before the real benefits are reached. Also, the benefits it offers are not for the ego. So if someone is unhappy, sees a spiritual book promising happiness, it is easy for them to assume the book means happiness for their ego. They are still in the stage of wanting to possess happiness. Then they read the spiritual book, or try going to church and praying or whatever and of course they don't find it making them happy because in the beginning spiritual exercises do not make you happy, they often bring pain as they begin to weaken the ego. The person then gets frustrated and gives up declaring spirituality and religion useless.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Icelander]
    #18578232 - 07/18/13 10:35 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think we are talking classic death anxiety here.  Especially where you said you forgot how old you were. 
:lol:  I have it too but I based my retirement on a suicide within or before 17 years tops. I would have been out of money at that point so it took all my courage and Veritas helped me a lot there with her support.  However since then I've gotten a second and unexpected inheritance that was substantial considering my lifestyle.  Now I've trained myself to rarely even think about how much I have and I spend fairly freely. I put away my yearly budget and just let it ride. However I'm fairly frugal by nature and habit.  I'm sure I have a lot less than you do but I feel completely rich and live day to day. There's a big part of me that wants out of this life anyway. Certainly I'm not very attached on an intellectual level.  This rock sucks imo. :satansmoking:




No death anxiety behind this, just life in a subjective bubble of my own design. I really do appear younger than people I've worked with who are 10 or more years younger than I am, and I still don't seem to think like most people our age. So, it's not just 'looks,' it is how I must carry myself, and I am not a paunchy and resigned to old age. The inner does project the outer. In the first place, since I'm neither parent or grandparent, don't volunteer to show me pics of your grandkids, I'm not interested. I suppose that I'm still interested in the universe, my mind not numbed by the banalities of procreation that society foists as "family is everything." Secondly, there is no telling how long I will live as long as I don't intervene with suicide. No call for that at this point, although, stupidly enough, I had a suicidal impulse just from losing my job. :lol: My great uncle got around fine in Florida, living by himself at 103, and getting Meals-On-Wheels, and probably would've lived longer than 106 if his selfish daughter hadn't moved him to freeze his ass off in Michigan. My dad was a physical disaster, fat, smoked, had countless major surgeries and lived to 86, just as his mother did. Whatever. When you die, you die. If life becomes horrible, I can always end it. :shrug:

I don't love money and I don't like to talk about it. I have realized that all I've ever wanted to do is play. My job was like play for me, which is why it's been such a loss in addition to the income. The income is about meeting my rather dense need for security. I can't stand most of the world of humanity because they do love money. Now, hoarders of money seem to experience death anxiety such that they act as though accumulating wealth can give them extended life. We saw a good number of cars today just grocery shopping. It's madness here: 2 Masseratis a few racy Mercedes, a couple of Jaguars (parked next to one), Lexuses, and we passed by 'Lambourghini of Miami' on the way to the wine store. Oh yeah, almost clipped a parked Bentley at the Publix Supermarket. I don't need race cars to play, fortunately, and the hippy in me laughs contemptuously at these poseurs. I still want to take mushrooms and look for power spots.' I'm easily amused. :grin:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineWithinity
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18578360 - 07/18/13 11:13 PM (1 year, 1 month ago)

All the words , all the meaning , all the terms all of that is an imitation and attempt to describe or capture something else that simply is.

I like what you said about it being there too get people through the day , it comes in the form of another story just like anyone with an ego would tell themselves ,  the only difference is the details and context of the story but none the less same shit! maybe the texture or colour is a bit different but it smells the same.


--------------------


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Withinity]
    #18579789 - 07/19/13 09:18 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Live the life of naked mind and heart. Most of the spiritual crap that people shit is bullshit, actually human shit. That's it. 

Everytime I hear someone talk about their great discovery I first, see how much money it made them, and second, see if they can spend a day in a fucking hot kitchen cooking their ass of for little pay.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: Misto]
    #18579827 - 07/19/13 09:35 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Misto said:
Ive been down this spiritual path for years now, taking psychedelics, studying spirituality, Buddhism, etc, and today i came to the realization that its all bullshit to get people through the day.

Maybe im just having a bad day, maybe its been to long since ive last tripped to see the true beauty of it all. I've tried to "wake up" become enlightened whatever you wanna call it. I've givin my fair share of good deeds and put out good karma all day everyday with nothing to show for it. Nothing ever comes back to me in good ways, i never feel anything different then any other day. Enlightenment is just an illusory mind state, almost a psychosis because you just want it to be that way so badly that you perceive its working when in true reality its not at all.

Maybe now ive truly become enlightened? :rolleyes:

Sorry just had to get this off my chest.

anyone else feeling the same way?







"I've givin my fair share of good deeds and put out good karma all day everyday with nothing to show for it."


This is pure bollocks. If you had done so you would not be writing this post. Reconsider what your idea of "good deeds" and "putting out good karma" is. Good karma is not the act of reducing suffering, it is also the pro-active action of generating anti-suffering/bliss. If I decide to stop slaughtering factory farmed animals tomorrow and eating them, I will have not earnt any good karma but I would have stopped the flood of tortured creature karma my way.



People just don't grasp how damn hard it is to actually earn good karma. A simple smile to a stranger is great, it's good karma. Now how many smiles to strangers does it take to take back a single life taken out by one of your taxpayer dollars? A bullet costs absolutely nothing, a hellfire missile not much more in context. If you calculated your actual real physical karma, I'm willing to bet that you've murdered more people on this planet than you have fed, enslaved far more children on here than you have freed.




Bottom line: keep trucking on. If you are holding onto the idea of goodness to get something in the same fashion as a psychopath, there is no goodness in that. Nature does not like those who pretend, it will brutalise you until you are truly good and then, and only then, will the fruits of good karma display themselves. A psychopath who does good deeds to get back things is not doing it out of innocent nature. If your actions are not innocent and wholesome they will bear little fruit.




Now let me explain... I felt like how you felt for years. All that changed the mere second I breathed fully into my lower Dan Tien for the first time. Prior to that I'd "meditate" but again it would be of spurious fruit, sometimes doing great, sometimes not so. Then when this channel was finally unblocked, all I have to do to meditate now is literally stand or sit with this air channel open and breathe as hard as I can for a little while. Within seconds I'll be annihilated in some way shape or form.


Consider giving through to your body. Work on releasing muscle tensions. I am very sure you are probably carrying around tensions for decades from traumas you have not let go. This is where spirituality is made REAL, where the nitty gets down to the gritty. You have to face your Self and release all your traumas, all your grudges, even those you don't even think are traumas or grudges, all of them.


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker


<i AM breath rippling through water|light reflecting to self with thought AM i>


Edited by crkhd (07/19/13 09:40 AM)


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Starting to think this is all bullshit [Re: crkhd] * 1
    #18579842 - 07/19/13 09:43 AM (1 year, 1 month ago)

I liked the above post (right above). 

But karma is as karma does. The nature of a thing is its karma, and how it interacts is what it is. Sugar is sweet and will not become less sweet.  Making a mountain of sugar will not erase the sad death of anyone. 

On this subject I was never a drug dealer though the money and chipping seemed likable, but still, I never was because the lkarma of drug dealing is to also be addicted and have people all up your ass for chemicals every fucking minute of the day.

Also to never know if someone likes you or the drugs.

My point, you are as you do.  That's karma. If you like pure air, you don't move the Los Angeles or Sao Paulo.

Karma will change in circumstance. Sugar can be carmelized and become less sweet. Driving may have less effect in a clear place.

Killing someone like Hitler will be a good thing. Killing your love won't. 

Karma, good deeds, all that is dualistic and a baffling trap for action.

Use the heart and use the feelings to know your motives. Your motivation (true motivation) is what will tell in the end.


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...or something







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