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InvisibleSOLID BASTARD
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 2
    #18552783 - 07/13/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Last reply. Breaking the security is annoying.

You made a thread about it, in my book that's whining. I'm being condescending because you're attempting to have the rules changed to further restrict what I can say. I will forever and always be against such anal retentiveness. If moderators are not banning people for baiting females with sexist remarks, file a support ticket, or email Ythan if you feel it needs to be escalated that far. Otherwise, this is going to be yet another rule added that will be misconstrued, whether purposefully out of disdain for a user or unintentionally.

For better or worse, I've always noticed you have quite grandiose ideas. Unfortunately, from my perspective, you lack the foresight to see how the practical employment of those ideas would play out in a real world scenario.

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: SOLID BASTARD]
    #18552817 - 07/13/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

It's not whining when it's a constant thing and I make one thread about it. Did you say this when the racism rule was being discussed?

Are you regularly making sexist comments? If not, this wont be "further restricting what you can say."

I can't see how there would be any realistic problems with implementation. If something would be racism if you switched the gender being discussed with a race, then it would obviously be sexism. Just like how moderator discretion is used in racism, the same would be employed in dealing with sexism. One comment that's most likely a joke shouldn't be an issue, however continued misogyny that makes female members feel uncomfortable and asserts their opinions are lesser because they happen to be a certain gender shouldn't be allowed just like general flaming isn't allowed.

Again, I wish you could express your opinion and possible outcomes without trying to discredit me personally. This isn't about me personally, at all. I'm just the one to bring up the issue.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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InvisibleSheekle
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 1
    #18552820 - 07/13/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I agree that there's no reason why sexism should even be in the question on the Shroomery, or anywhere else for that matter. This is the 21st century isn't it?

All jokes aside, only feminists care about such a silly concept as gender equality. Period.


--------------------
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #18552824 - 07/13/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
See, you're treating it like it's a forum with the "ladies' perspective" as the topic, but if we did the same thing for race, it would be clear that it's racism because it would exclude any posts from the perspective of a race other than the chosen one.





To my understanding, the female forum doesn't exclude posts from the perspective of other genders, so I don't think this analogy is accurate.  There was a discussion about this issue at the time, and I don't see a clear sexism problem with that forum.  Its subject discrimination rather than gender discrimination.


I may agree the first rule could be revised, but I don't agree with you as to what it actually means at present.


And no, I don't think it would be racist to have the same rules as applied to a racial group.  If the shroomery wants to have a forum for discussion of some issues related to a particular racial group, that isn't necessarily racist.

Quote:

In any case, you're using a site that has rules referring to women as the "fairer sex."  If sexism bothers you so much, why haven't you protested that?




Doesn't seem like sexism to me to use a figure of speech like that.  I'd feel the same way if the rules referred to women as bitches.  Sexism is hatred or dislike on the basis of gender- using some antiquated langauge doesn't suffice.

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InvisibleSOLID BASTARD
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre] * 2
    #18552874 - 07/13/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill, just like you did when chat was taken away. I'm going to continue to slam both you and the topic of discussion because out of all the active females we have, you're the only one crying wolf about a matter that hasn't even been hinted at as being an area of concern for other women.

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
however continued misogyny that makes female members feel uncomfortable and asserts their opinions are lesser because they happen to be a certain gender shouldn't be allowed just like general flaming isn't allowed.



I would really like to see some examples of this.
If it were actually an issue, I'm sure a moderator would have brought it up in a discussion in the moderator forum. I'm certain one of our S&R mods would have noticed if there was any sort of actual issue with misogyny, as a large portion of our active female userbase are involved in that forum.

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: SOLID BASTARD]
    #18552958 - 07/13/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

How is opening something for discussion "making a mountain out of a molehill"? It seems like you're trying to make it seem like I'm doing that because it supports your feelings on the matter.

I even added a poll, to see how other people feel as a gauge for how widespread sexism is and whether it needs addressed. I'm not exaggerating this, I just want some discussion in regards to the topic. Do you go around accusing anyone who makes a thread about anything of "making a mountain out of a molehill"? :rolleyes:

I guess you missed all the discussion before the Ladies' Forum was created? It was specifically created because of the rampant misogyny in the pub, many female members expressed feeling like sexism was widely accepted in The Pub.

Links for reading so you can better understand how many people feel about it:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17361588/fpart/1/vc/1
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17357775/fpart/1/vc/1


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #18553020 - 07/13/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

As I've said before, I'm ambivalent about the issue.

I'm not ambivalent about the censorship going on in this thread, however.  That shit is completely out of line.


--------------------
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InvisibleSOLID BASTARD
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18553034 - 07/13/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

What you linked sums up my point. Let's just ignore that the consensus on the issue of the Ladies' Forum is..

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
That's sexist bro.



:whatever:

Virgin neckbeards trying to get to see tits and ass happens everywhere, if you can't handle it, you need thicker skin.
Oh and then there's complaint about "DSHSB"? Guess what, women can and do (Crystal G) make similar lewd remarks, and here's the kicker... THEY'RE FUCKING PRAISED FOR IT. "That's so awesome that you're open about sexuality like that!!!!1"

You have nothing poignant to say, this is just a thread whining about a few virgin neckbeards making some off color remarks about showing tits and dry slamming shit boxes. :pm: me when you post something that could change the tide of this discussion, otherwise this thread will go the way of the dinosaur in no time.

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Enlil]
    #18553040 - 07/13/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
As I've said before, I'm ambivalent about the issue.

I'm not ambivalent about the censorship going on in this thread, however.  That shit is completely out of line.




Not really sure what the the censorship topic is about - but if you want to discuss it keep it in another thread so it doesn't change topics please.


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Cyclohexylamine] * 2
    #18553050 - 07/13/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I guess it'd have to be in another thread since certain people have been blocked from posting in this one.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Enlil]
    #18553069 - 07/13/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I guess it'd have to be in another thread since certain people have been blocked from posting in this one.



People can be blocked from commenting in a thread if they are trolling / flaming / etc. It's sometimes easier than banning from an entire forum, as they seem to just have an issue for one thread. I didn't block any people from this thread so I cannot comment, but I can see where it's appropriate. Either way - a support ticket for the person who was blocked or another thread here would be the appropriate action to discuss it.

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
How is opening something for discussion "making a mountain out of a molehill"? It seems like you're trying to make it seem like I'm doing that because it supports your feelings on the matter.

I even added a poll, to see how other people feel as a gauge for how widespread sexism is and whether it needs addressed. I'm not exaggerating this, I just want some discussion in regards to the topic. Do you go around accusing anyone who makes a thread about anything of "making a mountain out of a molehill"? :rolleyes:

I guess you missed all the discussion before the Ladies' Forum was created? It was specifically created because of the rampant misogyny in the pub, many female members expressed feeling like sexism was widely accepted in The Pub.

Links for reading so you can better understand how many people feel about it:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17361588/fpart/1/vc/1
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17357775/fpart/1/vc/1




Well: as of now, if I see a comment that is blatantly sexist / hurtful towards a specific gender I will treat it as I would hate blatant hate homosexuals or an ethnicity.
So if you want to see change, use the notify moderator button. I don't understand why so many people are loathe to use it. If a comment is hurtful it's going to be removed as per Rule 1 and the author disciplined in some way. But we moderators, and I know this is true for most of us, don't read every single post or thread in the Pub. It would be too time consuming, and I also don't even spend most of my time in the Pub. Therefore it's up the users of that forum to use the notify moderator button to alert moderators to inappropriate posts - to make the Pub the place it's meant to be (a welcoming forum).


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Enlil]
    #18553075 - 07/13/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

What do you mean "certain people" have been "blocked" from this thread? Who has been blocked? How do you know? Who are you suggesting blocked them?


Quote:

Cutless said:
What you linked sums up my point. Let's just ignore that the consensus on the issue of the Ladies' Forum is..

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
That's sexist bro.



:whatever:

Virgin neckbeards trying to get to see tits and ass happens everywhere, if you can't handle it, you need thicker skin.
Oh and then there's complaint about "DSHSB"? Guess what, women can and do (Crystal G) make similar lewd remarks, and here's the kicker... THEY'RE FUCKING PRAISED FOR IT. "That's so awesome that you're open about sexuality like that!!!!1"

You have nothing poignant to say, this is just a thread whining about a few virgin neckbeards making some off color remarks about showing tits and dry slamming shit boxes. :pm: me when you post something that could change the tide of this discussion, otherwise this thread will go the way of the dinosaur in no time.



That's not the consensus of the ladies, you completely ignored the TONS of female shroomerites discussing how genuine misogyny bothers them.

Completely missing my point. I'm open about my sexuality as well and I don't give a shit about the neckbeard comments. I'm talking about genuine misogyny, not some thoughtless internet meme that says more about the person using it than anyone else.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18553081 - 07/13/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

As I've said already, any time I've ever notified a mod about serious misogyny the response has been, "well it's not technically against the rules." Or "go to the ladies' forum if you don't like it".


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Cyclohexylamine] * 6
    #18553120 - 07/13/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

The censorship mentioned is an admin, who shall go un-named but who allegedly likes foot pictures, locking a small number of users from ever posting in the thread, i.e. before they ever posted in it.

It doesn't actually work. It just makes it more work.

It's quite childish. The Shroomery would be better served without such childishness.

(or should I say... without such childishness AFOOT)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18553146 - 07/13/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
As I've said already, any time I've ever notified a mod about serious misogyny the response has been, "well it's not technically against the rules." Or "go to the ladies' forum if you don't like it".




It really depends on the post in question. But if someone is being an ass, then notify. If I get it, and it actually is something that would be considered not allowed, then I would take action.
But I can see the point in your post - having official policy would really be best.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #18553194 - 07/13/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Sure, it's heavily dependent upon which mod gets the notification which would still be true with an official policy but at least then "it's not against the rules" wouldn't be a fair response.

I wouldn't have even posted about this, because unlike suggested I'm really not trying to "make it a big deal", until it occurred to me that sexism is really the same thing as racism when you get down to it, so I'm honestly curious as to why some people would be against a sexism rule but okay with the racism rule.

Like I said I just think discussion on this is important, and I appreciate all the contributions thus far.:yesnod:


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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InvisibleSOLID BASTARD
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #18553203 - 07/13/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
As I've said already, any time I've ever notified a mod about serious misogyny the response has been, "well it's not technically against the rules." Or "go to the ladies' forum if you don't like it".



As I've said already, cite this misogyny you speak of. :waits:

Tymoteusz3:

Notice the lack of reply options.

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InvisibleJoieDeVivre
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: SOLID BASTARD]
    #18553212 - 07/13/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I've cited threads where other female shroomerites have expressed similar concerns and you blew that off. I'm not going to spend my time searching for specific instances when it's obvious you're already decided on the issue. I'm not here to convince you personally, I'm interested in the opinion of the community as a whole.


--------------------
Sapere aude

"We cannot live for ourselves alone. Our lives are connected by a thousand invisible threads, and along these sympathetic fibers, our actions run as causes and return to us as results."


UBUNTU- I am because we are.



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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: JoieDeVivre]
    #18554056 - 07/13/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

JoieDeVivre said:
I've cited threads where other female shroomerites have expressed similar concerns and you blew that off. I'm not going to spend my time searching for specific instances when it's obvious you're already decided on the issue. I'm not here to convince you personally, I'm interested in the opinion of the community as a whole.




Well, I don't know what you're talking about either.  If there's some example of conduct that has been reported but not addressed by a moderator, lets see it so that we know what we're talking about.

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InvisibleChairman Meow
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Re: Why is blatant sexism allowed in the Pub? [Re: johnm214]
    #18554150 - 07/13/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

This.^ I feel if there has been unpunished blatant sexism then the moderator was probably not notified. I am curious if there was a certain post that sparked this thread.


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