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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: k00laid]
    #18274290 - 05/16/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
A small impact for the better good is not a large or lasting impact.




says you




And Leo Tolstoy among others, he demonstrated his point with a +1000 page book which is now one of the most well known books in human history.

vs.

"says you"

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274302 - 05/16/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

omg

someone wrote a book about the futility of humans.

they must be right.

cuz they wrote a book about it.


did you see pris#1 links? those are almost better than fictional books.
you know... cuz they arent fictional.


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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18274305 - 05/16/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ganjfather said:
What the fuck makes you think people have any power at all?





what leads you to believe we dont have the power




History  :shrug:  Reality





then clearly you know nothing about either

let me bring you up to speed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement




To me those events all outline my point beautifully, that no one can steer history. All our many perspectives however conflict and we wind up with chaotic circumstances which reflect the will of no single man or organization, but the compromise of events between the many various ideas.

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274312 - 05/16/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
which reflect the will of no single man or organization, but the compromise of events between the many various ideas.





thats the whole point!!!!


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: k00laid]
    #18274315 - 05/16/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:

omg
someone wrote a book about the futility of humans.
they must be right.
cuz they wrote a book about it.


did you see pris#1 links? those are almost better than fictional books.
you know... cuz they arent fictional.




Can you form some sort of argument or are you just reiterating your closed position? The lack of substance in your argument doesn't speak well of how much time or consideration you've put into it.

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274317 - 05/16/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

substance in my argument?

i never really claimed anything.

i just claimed that you arent correct.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: k00laid]
    #18274373 - 05/16/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

It doesn't matter, to restate my argument.

I've only made one point in this thread: no man or institution is capable of making large scale or lasting change. Gandhi was used as an example because he made no large scale change, though he is popularly believed to have done so.

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274396 - 05/16/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
I've only made one point in this thread: no man or institution is capable of making large scale or lasting change.





cool.

so lets get down to the nitty gritty of your claim


what do YOU mean by long lasting, and large scale.



it seems to me that ghandi obviously made a large scale and long lasting change.

you know who he is, right?
i would bet if you went out on the street and asked 10 strangers who leo tolstoy is, you would get 10 blank stares.


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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: k00laid]
    #18274454 - 05/16/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:

cool.

so lets get down to the nitty gritty of your claim


what do YOU mean by long lasting, and large scale.



it seems to me that ghandi obviously made a large scale and long lasting change.

you know who he is, right?
i would bet if you went out on the street and asked 10 strangers who leo tolstoy is, you would get 10 blank stares.




Neither Gandhi nor Tolstoy made any lasting change, they inspired people, educated people, but nothing large scale.

My definition of a large scale change would be something like the Independence of India or the US, a big historical event. When we look at these events though, they aren't steered by one individual or institution, they come along on their own regardless of the actors involved. The will of the people expresses itself in our surroundings, add up all the various wills and we get a collage of events which we live in.

In my opinion all power lies with the people, their will cannot be bent. The people who think they're controlling or even brainwashing the masses come themselves from the masses and only express their will.

A trickier part of that point, is that I don't think one can steer through education either. People will only convince themselves and its hard work to even change one's own mind, impossible to truly change another - only to enable one who was going to think something to think it. So even there the process of educating the masses in women's rights for example, is only telling people what they are looking to hear. If they are not looking to hear it, they reject it. If you don't tell them, they'll get it themselves.

In short we perceive individuals as having influence but they are only filling a void, like Obama, he is not the head of the country but an actor doing what someone else would be hired to do if he were not present.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274458 - 05/16/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_rights_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement




To me those events all outline my point beautifully, that no one can steer history. All our many perspectives however conflict and we wind up with chaotic circumstances which reflect the will of no single man or organization, but the compromise of events between the many various ideas.





lol... so history is predetermined, already written in stone for another 4
billion years. tell is, what will be happening next year, what are the
winning lottery numbers for the next $300mil jackpot

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274469 - 05/16/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Neither Gandhi nor Tolstoy made any lasting change, they inspired people, educated people, but nothing large scale.

My definition of a large scale change would be something like the Independence of India or the US






lol... what's ghandi known for?

what was the american revolution about?

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18274472 - 05/16/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

History is not predetermined, I never implied that. No one has any power to steer history, that is the point I made.

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18274484 - 05/16/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

lol... what's ghandi known for?

what was the american revolution about?




Gandhi is known for something he did not do.
The American Revolution is an event composed of the will of many people.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274503 - 05/16/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

lol... what's ghandi known for?

what was the american revolution about?




Gandhi is known for something he did not do.
The American Revolution is an event composed of the will of many people.





so the 'steering of history', in order to be significant, should be accomplished by a single person

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18274539 - 05/16/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

All the event listed before were significant, but none were steered by any individual or organization.

There's no major event in history I know of which has been the will of an individual or a single institution. WWII is an example, Hitler can be blamed in short-hand but we all know the situation of Germany post WWI among various other circumstances. Go back in time and kill Hitler, the war proceeds under a different guise.

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274708 - 05/16/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
My definition of a large scale change would be something like the Independence of India or the US,...they come along on their own regardless of the actors involved..



Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Go back in time and kill Hitler, the war proceeds under a different guise.





do you really believe this shit?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274731 - 05/16/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
All the event listed before were significant, but none were steered by any individual or organization.




so ghandi didnt steer the movement for the independence for india

maybe you should do some reading

no clue why you insist that significant change has to come from a single person

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: k00laid]
    #18274739 - 05/16/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
My definition of a large scale change would be something like the Independence of India or the US,...they come along on their own regardless of the actors involved..



Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Go back in time and kill Hitler, the war proceeds under a different guise.





do you really believe this shit?




So what individual was responsible for the American Revolution? Do you know the men who made up the Indian Congress at the time of the revolution? Do you know the state of India post revolution and Gandhi's reputation in India?

I've heard some good counter arguments to this concept but none in this thread, coming onto a drug forum and expecting intellectual stimulation is pretty foolish though.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18274748 - 05/16/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
So what individual was responsible for the American Revolution?





the king of england

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Re: Scandals Out The Ass In Obama's Administration..... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18274753 - 05/16/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
All the event listed before were significant, but none were steered by any individual or organization.




so ghandi didnt steer the movement for the independence for india

maybe you should do some reading

no clue why you insist that significant change has to come from a single person




I never claimed such a thing, you quoted insisting the opposite, nice try though.

If you think India was the cause of the Indian revolution you might want to do some reading, I've done my research on the matter.

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