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 Domnomino
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 5
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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 Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! 
#18036950 - 03/31/13 11:32 AM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Alright, SWIM has a couple B+ mono's going. Not his first rodeo.
Rye>Manure/Verm/gypsum at 1/4 spawn ratio about 3" deep, fruited uncased at 101% colonization. Extremely rhizomorphic mycelium
Analog hygrometer calibrated properly reading around 98%, light droplets all over surface. 70-78F at all times
6500 K dual tube fluoro about 4" from tub (hung vertically) about 8-10 hours a day
Gentle air ciruclation, monotubs dialed in in the manner of Frank Horrigan's boss-like method
Looked just peachy at first, pins everywhere BUT
These little pins are open. Dozens of them. All of them. They look fully developed, just super super small (~1/2 inch).
This occurred on 3 separate tubs mixed on separate occasions. The first tub was colonized using the ProfessorPinhead method (tight polyfill, saran wrap lid)
The second two were colonized with tape over holes. All 3 colonized at the same rate.
Many of them have a white ring around the top of the open cap. No spore dropping noticed.
The strange thing is there was no sign of a veil; as if it wasn't there to begin with
Couple of tubs of PESH in the exact same conditions yielded a perfect pinset and many small fruits
PE tubs in same conditions without these symptoms.
What in the actual hell is going on? I searched for hours and found nothing.
Thanks for the help!
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Domnomino]
#18036961 - 03/31/13 11:35 AM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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The light should be on for 12 hours a day.
Fruits maturing too early could be a sign of too much moisture.
--------------------
  
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
 *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK 
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: PussyFart]
#18037001 - 03/31/13 11:48 AM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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pics?
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PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Domnomino
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 5
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: PussyFart]
#18037016 - 03/31/13 11:55 AM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Too much moisture in the substrate or in the air?
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 Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: veda_sticks]
#18037027 - 03/31/13 12:00 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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I had the exact same thing happen with a tub of Orissa. Wall to wall pinset, I mean just crammed in there with NO extra space. Perfectly formed, but no veil. they hit about 1/2-1 inch tall then dropped spores, but lightly. got about an ounce of a few thousand teeny shrooms that were (reportedly) pretty weak.
I can't help you with the cause of it, cuz I never figured it out either. I have grown many tubs, trays and cakes and it's the only one that grew that way. Maybe there was some factor or condition I didn't notice at the time, but in my mind I grew it like every other tub.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Domnomino]
#18037053 - 03/31/13 12:09 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Domnomino said:
Too much moisture in the substrate or in the air?
in the substrate.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: PussyFart]
#18037190 - 03/31/13 12:46 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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It's genes.
The mushrooms are small because their genetics tell them to be. If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
But, if you clone those small shrooms, prepare for more small shrooms.
I've grown fungi on "water-logged" subs. Works fine if it doesn't wetspot.
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Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (03/31/13 12:53 PM)
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Domnomino
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 5
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: PussyFart]
#18037211 - 03/31/13 12:52 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
Domnomino said:
Too much moisture in the substrate or in the air?
in the substrate.
The thing is the substrate prep is the same across all strains. Same substrate brought to field capacity (as per RR videos). Same fruiting conditions yielded normal results for all other strains. PESH looked exactly like your sig, just beautiful.
I'm starting to think it's just genetics.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18037213 - 03/31/13 12:52 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Domnomino said:
Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
Domnomino said:
Too much moisture in the substrate or in the air?
in the substrate.
The thing is the substrate prep is the same across all strains. Same substrate brought to field capacity (as per RR videos). Same fruiting conditions yielded normal results for all other strains. PESH looked exactly like your sig, just beautiful.
I'm starting to think it's just genetics.
Quote:
Violet said:
It's genes.
The mushrooms are small because their genetics tell them to be. If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
But, if you clone those small shrooms, prepare for more small shrooms.
I've grown fungi on "water-logged" subs. Works fine if it doesn't wetspot.
--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Domnomino
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/13
Posts: 5
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18037232 - 03/31/13 12:59 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
It's genes.
The mushrooms are small because their genetics tell them to be. If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
But, if you clone those small shrooms, prepare for more small shrooms.
I've grown fungi on "water-logged" subs. Works fine if it doesn't wetspot.
Sorry, missed your reply.
By wetspot, do you mean contamination?
Also have you ever seen this? Seems to be pretty uncommon.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Domnomino]
#18037259 - 03/31/13 01:05 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Wetspot is referring to a place where water i.e. condensation has pooled on the bottom or side of a substrate stopping mycelia from being able to colonize into it. It's common for tubs in environments with temp differentials that cause lots of condensation on the inside of the tub which falls onto/alongside the sub and gather into wet spots in the sub. These subs that aren't fully colonized usually stall, and will contam instead of fruit. Liners can prevent this, but if the liner touches the side of the tub, water will fall inside the liner instead of outside and potentially cause wetspots just the same.
That's not your issue though.
I have seen subs flush just tiny mushrooms before. It's quite common for spore grows to have lots of little ones mixed with others, too. It happens - spores are a roll of the dice, sometimes you get snake eyes, but in general it's not a great strategy for the species to grow many of those so it's not nearly as common as nicer ones in the matrix pool of genes.
--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18037267 - 03/31/13 01:06 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
It's genes.
The mushrooms are small because their genetics tell them to be. If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
But, if you clone those small shrooms, prepare for more small shrooms.
I've grown fungi on "water-logged" subs. Works fine if it doesn't wetspot.
I understand that genetics can yield a wide variety of individual fruits, but how does genetics account for 2,000 identical, but tiny fruits (from ms) in the same tub?
unfortunately it was from a used print from a member, and I used the last of it for the syringe, so was not able to grow a second tub to see for myself if it was genetics.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Fungal growth]
#18037283 - 03/31/13 01:10 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Fungal growth said:
Quote:
Violet said:
It's genes.
The mushrooms are small because their genetics tell them to be. If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
But, if you clone those small shrooms, prepare for more small shrooms.
I understand that genetics can yield a wide variety of individual fruits, but how does genetics account for 2,000 identical, but tiny fruits (from ms) in the same tub?
The genes in your MS grow are all-over the sub. You get a different degree of genetic variety with each spore inoculation. Usually dominant strains take over and take the largest presence amongst the subs. One MS grow to the next will show less or more variety in each sub, not just variety from one grow to the next. You had a grow with lesser variety, and it was all tiny fruiting genes.
--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Kizzle
Misanthrope
Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,866
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18038190 - 03/31/13 04:36 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
You can and vice versa. The moisture content of the substrate is by far the most significant factor in mushroom size. If a tub was prepared too wet or too dry they can both cause tiny mushrooms.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle 
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Kizzle]
#18038201 - 03/31/13 04:38 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
If this weren't the case, you could clone those mushrooms and future grows with proper moisture would grow larger mushrooms.
You can and vice versa. The moisture content of the substrate is by far the most significant factor in mushroom size. If a tub was prepared too wet or too dry they can both cause tiny mushrooms.
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   It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: cronicr]
#18038266 - 03/31/13 04:49 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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OK, I dare ya to try it. Clone small mushrooms from a batch of small-only mushrooms on an overly wet/dry sub (if you can) and see if it grows big mushrooms on a different circumstance.
Won't happen.
Frankly I don't know where all you peeps get the whole over-wet small-mushi sub thing.
--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!
PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
• Violet's Teks and Posts •
|
PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18038289 - 03/31/13 04:53 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Frankly I don't know where all you peeps get the whole over-wet small-mushi sub thing.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The cause of small fruits is either a low substrate moisture content or too high moisture content. Pick up your cakes and you can tell if they're too wet or too dry by the weight. If as you suspect they're too dry, simply place in a saucer of water overnight. Heck, you could even let them float in a bowl overnight too. If they're waterlogged, let them dry out for a few days.
If your shotgun terrarium is built to spec, disregard your chinese hygrometer reading. They're never accurate anyway.
RR
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17870992#17870992
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
|
Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18038318 - 03/31/13 04:58 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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thanks for that explanation Violet.
Do you think the age of the spores could have been to blame as well?
It was an old print that looked like it was used heavily, so there weren't a lot of spores left. So genetics were much more limited than a new unmolested print.
also, I have seen mini shrooms caused by waterlogged sub, they were different than the Orissa tub I'm talking about, which was again wall to wall, perfect lil mini shrooms. Each one could have been cloned from the next.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: Violet]
#18038365 - 03/31/13 05:05 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
OK, I dare ya to try it. Clone small mushrooms from a batch of small-only mushrooms on an overly wet/dry sub (if you can) and see if it grows big mushrooms on a different circumstance.
Won't happen.
Frankly I don't know where all you peeps get the whole over-wet small-mushi sub thing.
you can clone the best genetics you can, but a dry cake will still perform shitty
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath
Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,352
Loc: Northeast USA 
Last seen: 1 month, 11 days
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Re: Tiny Pins with Open Caps. TC Help!!! [Re: cronicr]
#18038395 - 03/31/13 05:11 PM (11 years, 18 days ago) |
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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
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Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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