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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: Acidreamer] * 1
    #18034922 - 03/30/13 11:12 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

My Mom and I were with him and we were sober.  She was talking to him, asking questions, trying to delve into his psyche.  Talking about their relationship, his childhood, etc.  He didn't enjoy it, there was no euphoria and at one point he bottled up when we got to his mentally ill aunt who used to babysit him when he was a toddler.  My mother thinks there was abuse there that might contribute to his narcissism, passive aggressive behavior, and hurtful behavior to my mom.  Who knows though?  Even if it is true, the old man is near 70 and I have little hope for change.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: joemolloy]
    #18034946 - 03/30/13 11:18 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Joemolloy, does your father have a clinical diagnosis?


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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: QT3BFLEE]
    #18034960 - 03/30/13 11:22 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

No.  My mom has done endless research and believes he fits the label.  I don't doubt it.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: joemolloy]
    #18035575 - 03/31/13 01:54 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Live for yourself and die for yourself, because your own mind is the last thing you'll know before your time comes.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #18036108 - 03/31/13 06:21 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

He could just be an asshole :shrug:, and there's no cure for that.

We will all die eventually, it is something to take comfort in. Fate permitting, he will be forced to face any damages he has caused one day.

The punishment for the wicked is the denial of clean conscience.

For the record, narcissists require a narcissistic supply, often in the form of encouraged praise or reassurance from a family member or friend. To force a narcissist to confront their failures, the narcissistic supply must be cut off or utilized to force the narcissist to confront their failures.

It won't change the behavior, it will just make ya'll feel better. My mother is a diagnosed histrionic, so I'm familiar with the situation (albeit, it's a bit different for a histrionic). I would make some clean bets that your mother supplies a decent dose, even if it isn't readily apparent, of narcissistic supply. The key would then lie with her actions and her thoughts.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: QT3BFLEE]
    #18037002 - 03/31/13 01:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Fate permitting, he will be forced to face any damages he has caused one day.




:orly: 

:peace:PS


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18037010 - 03/31/13 01:53 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I feel like i'm part narcissistic having read the definition hahah only said part but it kinda fits maybe?

I surely feel like I could go on a killing spree at anytime.... :damnwtf:


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: op2kal]
    #18037434 - 03/31/13 03:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Do you live in the U.S.? The national "narcissism" average is much higher in the U.S. than other countries. It is a facet of our culture, if that wasn't already apparent.

Also a number of mental illnesses can represent as narcissistic PD. Borderline PD, bipolar, anti-social PD.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: joemolloy]
    #18039396 - 03/31/13 10:22 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
My father is a narcissist and out of desperation my mother asked me to give him ayahuasca.  He had his first trip, it was physically and mentally challenging as he dealt with the insanity that these drugs bring about.  There were no breakthroughs or really anything of value.  Next we tried shrooms, but the same thing.  He didn't open up, didn't see anything to acknowledge or change his ways.  Perhaps someone would say that we needed a trained psychedelic therapist to get results, but I think a person needs to want to change.  Sometimes they may even want to change but are incapable due to deeply ingrained personality traits that are the result of childhood abuse/trauma as well as hard-wired tendencies.

This is not to say psychedelic therapy can't help, but it didn't in my father's case.




those are the cases i was looking for. That helped a lot.
Yes, one needs to want to change, right. And a Narc can't see it's him (for him it's always the fault of the others) ... even if he could see it's him who causes the problems (which is very rare) - he still wouldn't want (or be able) to change and still try to rationalize in many cases i guess ... as was said by QT3BFLEE (and i remember reading before) narcs are only destabilized by cutting off the supply ... after such a crises it is said that there is a small time-window for therapy if the narc seeks it ... that makes sense ... i have to admit it's my Ex and i see her struggle but i can't have a person like this close to me. She is cut off now from my supply, but is still completely unable or unwilling to see the NPD.
i more than once had the impression she is not there at all - i mean, you talk to that person and she tells you stories ... but it's all a lie ... she lies so perfect, would pass ANY detector-test lying like fuck from A to Z  24/7... so it's hard to even find that person behind the grandios smokescreen ... what you find is a small child after looking hard ... i will wait and see from a distance if she falls into crisis because of lack of supply or if she manages to find the next victim quick enough ... if not, i will take her then on a trip if she wishes to change her exhausting life-situation... you can't expect happening anything as long as the narcissistic supply is there, there is no urgent need to change for the narc ... he/she needs to be in crisis due to lack of supply i am sure. I will let you know with detailed report if it ever comes to that but i doubt ... i don't think many have been bold enough to take a narc, who threatens to kill himself on a trip since most don't even know what they are dealing with when they see a narc ... this disorder is so fuckin screwed! ... just imagine - the narc is whining for weeks that the world is such an ugly place because everybody has turned away and there is nobody left to abuse - he presents himself as the ultimate victim to regain someone to abuse but fails - just in that moment the mushroom hits him like a train ... must show him/her something in this set ... as was said in literature about narcs: what will come out after successful therapie is a very fragile person - might take a while to recover from that ... but i think there is a chance the NPD could get better ... i think the key is to get the narc in the right time in his longterm-cycle: the moment he/she is repulsed by absolutely everyone and is in crisis because of it. Without therapie he/she would be depressed in her/his room for long time; then after recovery starting the cycle again maybe even more cruel.

@thephilosofist :
you seem to be semi-aware of it ... it gives me hope and confirms in a way what i thought.
as i read what you write i understand a bit ... you say "
Psychedelics have torn my ego and built it up enough times to recognize that my lack of shame and ability to 'turn off' empathy is a tool. With great power comes great responsibility."
Right there is your narcissism in plain view as big as it can be ... why would you think your ability to be cold (turn off empathy) towards others gives you any benefits? It doesn't. You are only better in stealing and cheating not making friends on the other hand ... that ability to turn cold have all of us and it is called 'being ignorant' (doesn't make you special) ... and ignorance is not strength, i guess ... this 'tool' is your disorder ... kick that 'tool' out as far as you can since it doesn't give you power it just harms yourself ... replace the gap with real friends and honest, loyal love ... just to show you the error here, don't be angry.

but then you write:
"Through the eyes of mushrooms, I see the importance of networking. I only maintain mutually beneficial relationships with other individuals, rather than parasitism or dominance; my tribe is strong because of this. "
which on the other hand is absolutely not narcissitic ... it sounds as if you understood you were using others ... it let's me hope ... you have been through most of it as you write ... i hope my ex can make the same way (maybe without having the grandious vessel-of-god-thing going too strong) ...

do you realize by the way that your 'tool' of willful non-empathy is just a defense-mechanism you now use for preemptive attack? ... try to find the source of it in the childhood and resolve by forgiving the people who have done you bad if that makes sense at all to you ...

... in the end of the day Ganjustice might just have had the right answer for me ...

... i would still love to hear more cases on shrooms or other hallucinogens from supposed Narcisssists or their close ones ...


Edited by ralf (03/31/13 10:58 PM)


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Offlineralf
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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: ralf]
    #18054439 - 04/03/13 09:54 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

bump for more info


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: ralf] * 1
    #18054630 - 04/03/13 10:28 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I'm going to vehemently disagree with this over psychoanalytic bullshit.  Every single one of us has a hint of narcissism in us.  We all want to be heard and express ourselves, we all have an ego.  We may not take it to extremes such as killing others but it's there. 

You have to ask yourself what is the perfect personality you're trying to achieve with the use of psychedelics?  What is perfect in one persons eyes isn't to someone else.  Say a "narcissist" takes psychedelics then becomes more introverted, quieter and humble.  Then it's, now you have social anxiety disorder or depression. 

You can't fucking win with this bullshit Freudian psychoanalysis.  It's best to embrace that there will never be perfection.  Embrace the things that annoy you about others, that they will always be there.  Stop trying to change them and work on yourself.


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Edited by liberty hunter (04/03/13 10:32 PM)


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: liberty hunter]
    #18054699 - 04/03/13 10:41 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

lol ... check this site to find out what it's like to live with a narc: http://www.menwhoareabused.com/

... everybody has it to some degree, clearly - like it is with any other disorder ... but there are diagnostic criteria ... only because you feel a bit narcicisstic now and then doesn't make you a narc...


Edited by ralf (04/03/13 10:42 PM)


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OfflineMaJiK_420
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Re: Narcissistic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: ralf]
    #18143063 - 04/21/13 04:35 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Interesting discussion. I stumbled across this article ... somehow while searching for something completely unrelated. However this is a great time for a discussion like this in relation to my life... and my on-off-on again girlfriend who I will refer to as J. On again BTW, as of 3 days ago.

Where to start, I have a lot to say. Light, Spark, Inhale, Exhale slowly...... ok haha here we go. Something like 4 years ago me an J hooked up after being friends/best friends for a while. She was my dream girl. Is. And Because of this I know I am Narc Supply, which is something that I obviously have to work on if she is going to get better. We started off as smokin buddies, started hanging around more, then smokin down every day, gettin into x and 2ce 2ci whippits shrooms LSA(morning glory) drinkin, shit we had a quad pod of homies that was down to party every night all night for about 2 years. One day I broke down and told her how I felt and of course it was on from there.

Few months into it, pretty much right after she turns 18(I was 21) she hits up the strip club. And why the fuck not, if it wasn't indecent and disrespectful to post a picture of her, I would just so you would all drop your jaws and agree. fucking 10/10. Of course I battled with myself, and with her on how I felt about her stripping for a while. At first it killed me. Just the horrible sinking feeling ya know? ugh made me sick. Till I went in the first time, and man.... I mean, its a club, loud music, hot bitches, I think I was rollin maybe, and when she is the hottest thing in there by a mile, it feels damn good to know your taking that home, and shes sleeping with me, every night. Watching those guys throw money at her was like "fuck ya buddy lay out those dollars!" Felt good. Still had a problem with it for a while, but after enough time anything can become normal.

It should be obvious at this point in my story how much of a narc supply I have been. Basically worshiped her and the ground she walked on.... and so did everyone else. She became top bitch at the club fast. Her and the other hottest girl ran that place for a while. Started the off cycle(first breakup) and then on later.... She get hooked up in xtc pretty bad, goes on like 1-2 week binges(straight stayin up for 4-5 days and shit, stripping and making bank and partying) Her and her bestie got in deep, but for everything I have said negative about J, she is still smart. She still has something in her that can straighten her out. I hear it and see it in her, she just has to grow up. She got herself out before her bestie got locked in.

Ah... intermission.

Alright, so skip some trivial shit now were pregnant. miscarriage. moving on.... Weird fucking premonition dream after a month of no contact. Dream: Fucking vivid like Fuck(yes it is necessary to curse for emphasis) little girl on a swing playing on a bright sunny day, green grass, blue sky and a warm breeze, pushing her on the swing, WAKE UP! Txt J after a month and a half or two months of no contact. Last time we met I stayed the night and we got busy, then her husband(oh yeah, one of the times she broke up with me she went and got a contract marriage with some army fuck who fell in love with her.) came by early and she kicked me out for him.... Anyway so that was the last time we saw each other(at that point) and I texted her and asked about her period(straight to the point) and I guess she was so shocked that she started crying. She ditches Army boy for me, since I have my shit together and been around longer I suppose and I take care of her pregnancy. Paternity test shes mine(which was a battle legally; since J was married at time of birth, baby is automatically husbands, FUCK THAT SHIT, felt so good to get my girl, I knew she was mine from that dream.

Anyway all goes good for 6 months or so, then J decides she wants "independence." ok what the fuck ever. She moves out for a while, fucks around, gets her van impounded(thus losing any semblance of independence, eat it bitch) and she parties at night and plays zombie mom in the day(later she confessed how bad she felt about this) Blah blah blah we get back together, but at this point, I am just waiting for her to break up with me again, which just makes me not even try. She goes outta state for a wedding and decides to break up with me while she is gone(on her defense, everything short of tragedy happened to her while she was gone, lost her ID got stranded with no family help and no money to get back, ended up having to work at a club down there so she could make money to get back) I talked her into working things out, but of course we didnt.

Sorry about all this relationship shit, didn't mean to go on about it, but I think it all ties together. Anyway After that she stays here while saving money to move out, she slept on the couch, after 2 months I get pissed and basically tell her to get out or lets talk. Here's where it starts to come together to present day. During all the arguments and fights I called her a narcissist a couple times. Now I said this for a few reasons, without researching it at first. Being a super sexy stripper, she is in a prime position to fall in love with herself, boosting her ego around every corner, and being rewarded for it. Add in some drugs and BAM you have some detrimental life issues popping up. Note: both of us have laid off the drugs, me more before the baby, J is just getting out of the "phase" I guess. Both still pop addys some time but whatev. I like to shroom more for spiritual experiences now more than recreational.

Stay on topic now, Damn marijuana. So now that shes grown up a little and had life slap her around a bit, shes starting to realize where things are going for her. This is why I think shes smart, because shes realizes where she is headed. Between me calling her a narc and pointing out other issues like her being emotionally cold or absent, and getting into arguments with her friends, she is starting to see some reoccurring issues that people are having with her. I pointed this out to her and I saw a change in her attitude. Its like, oh man.... if 5 people say one thing about me... and I cant see it myself, that means I need to find a mirror. And this hit her I think. She broke down and admitted that she has been irrational all the times she broke up with me and never really wanted to, but her solution to solving problems is to just make the problem go away. so instead of talking to me and working things out she abandons the relationship, which of course only ends up delaying issues that need to be discussed, as well as adding new ones.

When I would point out things that I felt were issues that she needed to work on she would get defensive, say something like "yeah yeah, or I know, or lets all gang up on me" those kinds of typical defensive statements when someone is afraid to listen to faults of their own. Thinking that she although I saw the issue, she didnt need to change for anyone. When you don't have anyone to change for, or anyone at all.... you start to rethink things. I think her getting lonely helped put things in perspective. Which makes perfect sense I suppose; take away the supply, your left with a broken narc. A broken narc with nothing, no car, no home, no money saved, and no friends willing to help.... this was her other option.

Although we decided to walk and work things out, I knew there was still some tension around me calling her a narc. Until she got curious and found a documentary on narcissism and as she laughed nervously(and almost hysterically) at certain parts she then realized why I have been calling her one. I suppose this now makes her somewhat of a self-aware narcissist. She is just becoming aware because there are issues in her life arousing from this problem that are becoming of serious detrimental value. Still a little tense on the subject but I told her that even though I called her a narcissist, I don't want her to think that I hold it against her, or like I am not trying to insult her or put her down, and she responded with something like "oh no I totally understand now" acceptance on her part.... I then told her about this discussion that I cam across and when she was wondering what steps she could take to work on certain issues. I told her shrooms might be a route to try. She has been bugging me to do some with her for a while(even while separated...?!lol) but I kept putting it off. I always have em since I grow em so its just whenever I feel like it. but after I told her about maybe trying shrooms she sounded intrigued. The last time she shroomed she got so scared she pissed herself on my dads carpet and it scared her away from the fungus for a few years. But with my avocation she has been willing to give it a try for a while. However timing is everything for me, the shrooms have to call me with a lesson.

Mushrooms are an introspective learning tool for me. I have gotten to the point where I prefer to shroom alone. So here is where my story winds down...I am considering shrooming with her just to try and get her to have a good shroom. I'm not going to try and get all psychoanalytical and shit. I read somebody elses story and they said they did shrooms and aya with their 70 yr old dad or whatever and that he was unconfortable and that it wasn't enjoyable.... Now of course this is just my opinion, but I think there is much more progress to be had when something is enjoyable. either way, I gotta warm her up the the shroom, it should speak to her on its own in time, if it works anyhting like it has with me.

I've been wanting to shroom and paint for a while, never done it, but it just sounds like an amazing idea. might be something we try together. One of my favorite shrooms was I went drove downtown to a park, ate my bag in the parking lot, ran hard for 15-20 mins straight, then stopped for a breath and it hit me like severely exaggerated whiplish, instant full on intense all at once come up, absolutely amazing. I continued and found a cpot to meditate on the beach at sunset, I was allowed to paint the sunset to my liking and move the colors with my hands and mind. Just incredible. I want to share an experience like this with her.... That was a life changing event for me.

Anyway, I apologize for being long winded, but I have time to type, maybe you have time to read. Would love to further discuss this topic. Happy 4/20

Edit: on the topic of everyone sometimes being narcissistic, of course. The whole narcissist complex comes from an OVER inflated EGO, Ego of which all healthy people have. Ego, super-ego, id blah blah balh fight for power balance blah. Sure sometimes we get cocky, does that make us a narcissist? no, it means we are displaying narcissistic qualities. Look up a docutmentary on Narcissism(found a full length on youtube) or learn about the 9 identifying traits. Just because someone displays narcissistic qualities doesn't even necessarily mean they are a narcissist. I think its more when it becomes a problem to daily life that it needs to be addressed as narcissism. guy on the documentary had all 9 traits and put himself in self imposed exile because he could not function in society. Obviously extreme. but yeah, ok im done.


Edited by MaJiK_420 (04/21/13 04:42 AM)


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18143076 - 04/21/13 04:41 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s7aieKPyP8c

I think magic mushrooms have quite the potential. The link is to a youtube video explaining how the compound psilocybin (what's in magic mushrooms) works in the human brain. It does it in a "fun" way too, but it is pretty lengthy. Definitely worth the time though!


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OfflineMaJiK_420
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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: Sagescruffy]
    #18143080 - 04/21/13 04:43 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sagescruffy said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s7aieKPyP8c

I think magic mushrooms have quite the potential. The link is to a youtube video explaining how the compound psilocybin (what's in magic mushrooms) works in the human brain. It does it in a "fun" way too, but it is pretty lengthy. Definitely worth the time though!




20 mins? ha I watch documentaries all day lol. Im watching that though nice find.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18143088 - 04/21/13 04:49 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I don't know, some people think 7 minutes is a long video ha ha. The cool thing about it is the type of research that was done to support it.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: MaJiK_420]
    #18143111 - 04/21/13 05:07 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Yeah just finished.... That was great. I am showing this to my Girlfriend haha, I definitely think she could benefit from a mediated shroom trip. I really like  what he said about just mixing things up, and interrupting the daily flow of life(ever see Ink [2009]? Shake the shit outta em!) that becomes monotonous to the point of becoming an issue. Which is one of her problems besides narcissitic qualities, she gets bored with things(our relationship for example) she needs things to be fresh and exciting all the time, which is just hard to do.

Gonna watch that again tomorrow when Im less stoned. ha


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: MaJiK_420] * 2
    #18143150 - 04/21/13 05:35 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Truly stupid people aren't interested in psychedelics because they can't figure out the point. It feeds off intelligence. It's a concioussness expanding drug, if you don't have any concioussness it can't expand it! -Mckenna


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I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: LysergicX7] * 1
    #18143231 - 04/21/13 06:24 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Really be careful to distinguish between Narcicisstic personality disorder,Borderline personality disorder and psychopathy.
With some of these shrooms simply can not help at all because they do not have the mental hardware.
They remain just as dangerous.


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Re: Narcicisstic personality disorder and shrooms [Re: mycot]
    #18148334 - 04/22/13 06:12 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Majik_420 your girl could also be manic depressive. Every checked on that?  ... doesn't quite sound like the evil narc to me ... does she not intentionally hurt you? ... then she might not be a narc ... manic depressions sometimes are confused with narcissism since those are fairly similar in symptoms ... if she is indeed manic depressive she shouldn't touch the shroom i think ... could maybe backfire in large dose ... don't know ... just do your homework propperly ...

good point mycot ... Hannibal Lector on shrooms ... just imagine :P
does he really not have the hardware? ... are there people with absolutely zero positive emotions?


Edited by ralf (04/22/13 06:20 AM)


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