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Offlinesoma_seeker
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Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm)
    #18017704 - 03/27/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

March 6th

Prepared 18 quart jars of WBS.  WBS was soaked overnight with 2% by weight/volume of gypsum.  The following morning the WBS was brought to the boil for 5 minutes, drained and then spread out to air dry for 30 minutes to remove all surface moisture.

The jars were PC'd at 15 PSI for 2 hours.


March 7th

Three agar plates (each containing a different isolate) were used to inoculate 6 quart jars each.  These strains were isolated over a period of several weeks, which involved around 4 transfers.



Two sets of six were inoc'd by transfering 1/6 of the agar plate to the quart jar.  The third set of six were inoc'd by preping an LC syringe from the third agar plate (using the 'slurry' method).

The syringe preparation and inoculation procedures were performed in front of my flow hood.


March 14th

Two jars (each from a different strain) have developed a mould contamination that I've never seen before.  It looks somewhat like cobweb mould but with a brown hue.  These two jars were carefully disposed of.


March 23rd

All jars now appear fully colonised.  No strain performed significantly better than the others.  Neither method of inoculation (wedge or LC) proved more effective than the other.

In the future, the 1/6 agar wedge will be cut into 2 or 3 segments to speed colonisation of the jars.

Based on the fact that the jars were inoc'd using rhizo monocultures I expected the colonisation rate to be more impressive than it was.

Jars will be left for a further 3 days to ensure 100% colonisation.


March 27th

5 from 6 jars of two of the strains colonised completely without contamination, and 6 jars of the third strain succeeded.  5 jars of each strain were used to prepare 3 separate monotubs (the spare 6th jar will be used for prep'ing further substrate via g2g).



The monotubs were prepared by spawning to coir/verm using Damion 5050's coir tek (5 quart jars of spawn, 2 quarts of verm, 3.5L of water, 600g of coir).





The monotubs were each covered with a large black plastic bag to block out the light and put aside to colonise.  Plan to check on their progress in 5 days time and expect full colonisation after 10.



Note: 

Still unsure whether or not to case the tubs.  Current climate and growing conditions make trich contamination fairly likely, so it may be better to avoid this step (it was for this reason I chose not to add coffee to the coir/verm).  One of the three tub's substrate level already reaches the bottom FAE holes of the tub (noticeably higher than the other two), so casing this tub may not actually be possible.  Perhaps will case the other two and simply add a very thin layer of verm to the surface of the third.
If casing is applied, will be 50/50+ using peat moss, verm, oyster shell and calcium carbonate.  Still not sure on exact composition (what percentage of powdered calcium carbonate should I use?).
Regardless of whether a casing layer is applied, I intend to mist/fan the tubs once a day, and also have a small fan in the grow room (which will be on the same 12 hour on/off cycle as the lights).


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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

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OfflineHybridprX
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18017710 - 03/27/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Awesome log op :thumbup:


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Offlinesoma_seeker
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: HybridprX]
    #18017717 - 03/27/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HybridprX said:
Awesome log op :thumbup:




Thanks :smile:

Hopefully will get some awesome results to add to it!


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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

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OfflineHandollaf
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18017894 - 03/27/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Looks great man!  I am actually planning a very similar grow (just inoculated Wednesday 20.  I'm doing a multispore from syringe for my first try but I'm trying to work with some agar right now so i can use an isolate on my next go.

7th day and no signs of growth on Jars or Agar :frown:  ...patiently waiting

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18018301 - 03/27/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Beautiful plates!

:popcorn: :peace:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18018547 - 03/27/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:

The monotubs were prepared by spawning to coir/verm using Damion 5050's coir tek (5 quart jars of spawn, 2 quarts of verm, 3.5L of water, 600g of coir).




I would've used about 5L of water for that, I doubt 3.5L gave you field capacity :shrug:

Also, don't case em, just dial the tubs in right and watch your mycelium sing :awesomenod:

Epic isolates!
:popcorn:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Edited by FrankHorrigan (03/27/13 12:24 PM)

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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18018633 - 03/27/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
HUSTLER
How U Survive This Life Everyday Resourcefully
epic GT mono tub
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17277772

wbs tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11525679
coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:

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OfflineBlake_Shroom
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: tripdawg420]
    #18018688 - 03/27/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Those plates.... :africaface:

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Offlinesoma_seeker
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18019777 - 03/27/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks everyone!

Yeah I'm quite proud of these plates, they are the result of the first series of agar work I've ever done. I tried numerous techniques but what lead to these results was transferring a strand of rhizo myc from a fully colonized WBS jar.  You know the rhizo strands that grow straight up from the substrates surface in search of more material to colonize? I took pieces of this with tweezers and scalpel and then grew them out on agar and performed a further 3 isolations.  Seemed to have worked well :smile:

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:

I would've used about 5L of water for that, I doubt 3.5L gave you field capacity :shrug:

Also, don't case em, just dial the tubs in right and watch your mycelium sing :awesomenod:

Epic isolates!
:popcorn:




Yes perhaps I was a little low on the water content.... last time I thought I used slightly too much, so I worked out the amount based on Daimon's tek and took 10% off (worked out approx. 3.5L).  Hopefully this will be enough.
I was also hoping to get at least two flushes out of them without dunking, considering that trich is a big problem for me and dunking bulk subs seems to increase the odds of trich (doesn't it? maybe only IME).

Thanks for the link. So you don't add anything to the substrate surface?  Not even some verm?  Do you mist/fan? If so how frequently?

I have only prep'd one monotub before, which I did not case or add verm to, and I didn't mist or fan (I wanted to see if i'd get decent results with the 'set and forget' method).  I got a good pinset around the entire perimeter (side pins, despite my black plastic bag liner AND black tape around the tub).  However there were only a handful of fruits on the top surface and several of them aborted (NONE of the side pins aborted).  Clearly there was something wrong with the conditions on the top surface of the substrate.  That is why this time I am keen to both case and mist/fan once daily.

note: The RH in my last monotub sat on a fairly constant 82%.

Any thoughts/suggestions from those with more experience with monotubs would be much appreciated!


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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

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OfflineBig Daddy Kane
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18019961 - 03/27/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Hi Im new to the forum, I had some questions, I could figure out how to start a post so i figured id ask here since this seems to be an active post. First of all I did a pf tek grow somewhat successfully about 2 years ago. Nothing since then. I am looking to start up again but do a bulk monotub. At outgrow.com there are $40 kits with 3 lb of rye, 10 lb of manure and 1 lb casing. This seems to be a good option since I wont have to worry about gathering materials, pressure cooker, jars sterilization etc. So here are my questions.
1) How many cc of spore per 1 lb bag?
2) Once the bags are fully colonized how do you introduce the bulk substrate? It seems that they get combined in the monotub? If so what are the temp/light parameters. Does it work to mix the grain and bulk substrate, add the casing and wait until everything is colonized?
3) How do you keep proper humidity in the monotub? Does the casing provide this?
4) Is it ok to open a monotub or should you keep it closed with the polyfill holes?
5) How do you initiate secondary flushes?

If anyone could help me out or link me to a page that would be great.
Peace

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: Big Daddy Kane]
    #18020618 - 03/27/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

the two teks in tripdawg420's sig should help a lot.

anything not covered there i recommend reading a few different sources to get an idea of the different approaches used. you should use the search engine for this.


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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: Big Daddy Kane]
    #18020652 - 03/27/13 07:41 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Big Daddy Kane said:
...
If anyone could help me out or link me to a page that would be great.
Peace




:pm: me if you'd like. Otherwise, all the info. you need is already on the site. The search engine is your friend.

Let's not detract from soma's awesome thread. It's called hi-jacking 'round these parts, and it's not alright!

On a side note, there is a "Post" link near the middle-right of your screen which will open the menu-box and text-box for posting your own questions. Honestly, though, 95%+ of the questions posed are already answered.

:plur:


--------------------
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My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: Primal Call]
    #18031269 - 03/30/13 12:28 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

March 29th

Prepared 4 mycobags of rye grain (6L of dry grain, which produced 14L of field capacity grain).  Grain was soaked overnight with 2% by weight/volume of gypsum.  The following morning the grain was brought to the boil for 5 minutes, drained and then spread out to air dry for 30 minutes to remove all surface moisture.

The jars were PC'd at 15 PSI for 3 hours.

The following day the bags were inoculated using the one spare fully colonised WBS jar (strain F).


March 30th

Opened the three monotubs to check on their progress today.  Mycelium has reached the surface of two of the three tubs (strains A and E), after 3 days of colonisation.  Still no signs of mycelium in the third tub (strain F).

The mycobags inoculated yesterday are already showing significant colonisation.  I expect they will be ready to spawn after 14 days.


--------------------
Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

Edited by soma_seeker (03/30/13 01:26 AM)

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Offlinesoma_seeker
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18034010 - 03/30/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Note:

I'm thinking I will follow the same fruiting procedure for all three tubs.  Obviously this is the best approach for comparing the performance of the the three isolates.  When the 4 mycobags of strain F are ready to be fruited I will experiment with 4 different approaches to fruiting (i.e. with 50/50+ casing, different mist/fan schedule, etc.).

What I plan to do with these three tubs is to NOT apply any form of casing layer, and place sanitised bubble-wrap immediately on top of the substrate which will be removed once daily to fan the tub.  I don't intend to mist.

Any comments/thoughts/suggestions by those with significant experience in fruiting monotubs would be greatly appreciated.


--------------------
Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

Edited by soma_seeker (03/30/13 05:29 PM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18034044 - 03/30/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Your plates made me oog all over myself.. Those are beautiful. :eek:


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Offlinebrand0n
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: George Sears]
    #18034133 - 03/30/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

how much did you spend on that little flow hood?


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That did it! I am now the anti BRF CAKE! I have had enough! TO HELL WITH BRF! REAL MEN USE SEED! Go now brf younging. Get some seed. COME BACK A MAN!

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Offlinesoma_seeker
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: George Sears]
    #18034332 - 03/30/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tacomandood said:
Your plates made me oog all over myself.. Those are beautiful. :eek:




haha thanks.  Hopefully the results will reflect it!


--------------------
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: brand0n]
    #18034349 - 03/30/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

brand0n said:
how much did you spend on that little flow hood?




Yeh I'm really happy with my flow hood.  Designed it myself using the HEPA filter of an air purifier and a small exhaust fan intended for hydroponic grow rooms.

It set me back about $170, however I expect it would be noticeably cheaper for the same materials in the US (the hood was built in Australia).

I've been planning on doing a little write-up on it but haven't got around to posting.


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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18040847 - 04/01/13 01:32 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

April 1st

Wow... I'm feeling extremely foolish...

I checked on the three tubs today and was concerned that strain F still showed no signs of colonisation.  I couldn't see any mycelium on the surface, nor could I notice its characteristic smell.

I expected contamination and that I may need to dispose of the tub already.  I disturbed the surface of the substrate to realise that no spawn had been added to the tub :S

I had trimmed the black plastic bag more or less to size, but hadn't added the spawn.  What I had done, was add 10 qrt jars of spawn to one of the tubs and none to the third :frown:

No wonder one tub's substrate height was noticeably higher than the others.  I still can't believe I did this without noticing my mistake sooner :S

Anyway, I had an extra mycobag that was fully colonised 3 days ago (of strain A), which I used to inoculate the tub.  I soaked the grain for 5 minutes, then drained it well, before mixing it with the coir/verm.

Unfortunately my experiment of comparing the 3 strains alongside one another under the same conditions is now ruined, but hopefully I'll still produce some good results.

The other two tubs have been colonising for 5 days now, and mycelium is covering about 20% of the tubs' surface.


--------------------
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Offlinebrand0n
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18041099 - 04/01/13 03:31 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

woops


--------------------
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: brand0n]
    #18054359 - 04/03/13 07:43 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

April 2nd

Prepared a fourth monotub using a mycobag inoculated with a golden teacher rhizo isolate (this culture wasn't as visually impressive as the Ecuadorian strains, however I did consider it a rhizo monoculture as well. no photo available.  slants were prepared for all five of these strains used and stored under refrigeration after approx. 3 days of growth). 

The spawn was broken up, examined for contamination (sight/smell), and when deemed clean soaked in water for 5 minutes.  After straining, the spawn was mixed with the same medium as the 4 Ecuadorian tubs (600g coir, 2L of verm, 3.5L water).

The volume of spawn was between five and six quart jars, and had been inoculated (via agar wedge), 19 days earlier.



April 4th

Checked on the progress of the first two monotubs' colonisation.  These tubs were prepared 8 days ago and their surface is now 80-90% colonised.  They will not be ready for fruiting after the expected 10 days, however I expect they will be ready no later than day 14.  I will wait until the surface appears fully developed, at least 3 days after it has been fully colonised.

It is no suprise that these tubs are taking longer than my previous attempt, as this time I made sure that I covered the bulk material with a layer of pure coir/verm.  This layer was at least 1/4", but more likely 1/2" thick.  I wanted to ensure that absolutely no grains were exposed on the surface (to lessen the chance of contamination with trich), and that the entire surface was new growth (unstressed) mycelium (to help promote a stronge even pinset).

I also checked on the other two monotubs (those prepared on the 1st and 2nd), which show initial mycelial growth on their surface.


--------------------
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18054434 - 04/03/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

a picture says a thousand words

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Offlinesoma_seeker
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: thelanzii]
    #18054481 - 04/03/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Nemmies said:
a picture says a thousand words




Yes I was going to snap a couple of photos but I really wanted to limit the time that the tubs were open and exposed until the surface is fully colonised.

Trich has been a significant problem in the past, so I'm being quite pedantic about trying to prevent it.

Will take some shots in the next few days.


--------------------
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070541 - 04/07/13 04:38 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

April 5th

The four mycobags of strain F are fully colonised after only 7 days (!!).  From my recent work using the same strain with both WBS and rye grain, it seems that rye grain colonises noticeably faster.  Also, these bags were inoculated via g2g transfer, which still suprises me how much quicker the colonisation takes off compared to LC.




April 6th

The first two monotubs (the first being strain E and the other which was mistakenly prepared using both strain A and F), have now been colonising for 10 days.  However, I expect that the surface will not be fully ready for fruiting for another week.

Strain E tub.



Strain A & F tub.



The next tub was prepared using strain A five days ago.



The last tub was prepared from my GT isolate 4 days ago.  I've read that GT is known for being a slow coloniser (there are only a handful of small patches of visible myc on the surface).



--------------------
Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!

Edited by soma_seeker (04/07/13 04:48 PM)

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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070551 - 04/07/13 04:45 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
I've read that GT is known for being a slow coloniser



Not true, it is a cube, and a cube is a cube.

The names these vendors give spores is mainly just the region they originated from.

In that one GT syringe, there are millions of possible genetics, some are fast colonizers, some slow, some potent, some not. Same goes for ALL cubes.

To say that a certain variety of cubes colonizes quicker than another is a false statement, because they are all the same, in the fact that there will always be genetic differences when dealing with spores.

This is why we isolate single sector(strain) isolates on agar, so we can move away from the multispore crapshoot genetics, and have better, more predictable, more even flushes, potency, colonization speed, etc.

Edited by PussyFart (04/07/13 04:46 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070564 - 04/07/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Not true, it is a cube, and a cube is a cube.

The names these vendors give spores is mainly just the region they originated from.

In that one GT syringe, there are millions of possible genetics, some are fast colonizers, some slow, some potent, some not. Same goes for ALL cubes.

To say that a certain variety of cubes colonizes quicker than another is a false statement, because they are all the same, in the fact that there will always be genetic differences when dealing with spores.

This is why we isolate single sector(strain) isolates on agar, so we can move away from the multispore crapshoot genetics, and have better, more predictable, more even flushes, potency, colonization speed, etc.




So you're suggesting that although different strains can have vastly different characteristics such as fruit size/shape (consider the difference between a B+ and a KSSS fruit), they will never similarly vary in their rate of colonisation?... Sorry mate but I don't buy that for a second. 

I'm well aware why strain isolation is performed.  Thanks anyway for the input.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070626 - 04/07/13 05:30 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
So you're suggesting that although different strains can have vastly different characteristics such as fruit size/shape (consider the difference between a B+ and a KSSS fruit), they will never similarly vary in their rate of colonisation?



They will always vary, from spore to spore, and there are millions of spores in a single syringe, of any given variety of P. Cubensis.

Do not confuse strain with variety.

A strain is a monoculture or an isolate, a single set of genetics which is a result of 2 spores germinating and meeting, which creates a mycelial network.

This is not to be confused with varieties(Cambodian, GT, PE, KSSS, etc), which are comprised of random spores, or genetics.

Now there are some exceptions, like KSSS and PE, but even they have their differences in appearance amongst themselves.

When injecting something with spores, you are injecting litterally thousands of potential "strains", each of which has it's own characteristics, such as fast colonization, high potency, etc.

There is no way to tell what you will get with spores, it is totally random.

Edited by PussyFart (04/07/13 05:31 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070640 - 04/07/13 05:41 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
They will always vary, from spore to spore, and there are millions of spores in a single syringe, of any given variety of P. Cubensis.

Do not confuse strain with variety.

A strain is a monoculture or an isolate, a single set of genetics which is a result of 2 spores germinating and meeting, which creates a mycelial network.

This is not to be confused with varieties(Cambodian, GT, PE, KSSS, etc), which are comprised of random spores, or genetics.

Now there are some exceptions, like KSSS and PE, but even they have their differences in appearance amongst themselves.

When injecting something with spores, you are injecting litterally thousands of potential "strains", each of which has it's own characteristics, such as fast colonization, high potency, etc.

There is no way to tell what you will get with spores, it is totally random.




Yes I'm not arguing with what you've said here, but it isn't entirely relevant to my point.  My point was that if a specific variety of cube can have specific characteristics (such as fruit size/shape), then this variety could clearly also have a specific tendency towards factors such as rate of colonisation.  Obviously this will be effected when dealing with MS compared to monocultures, but I never argued that it wouldn't.  What I'm suggesting is that is it is entirely possible for a particular variety to display a general tendency towards faster/slower colonisation.  It was my understanding that this is an accepted fact, I've never come across anyone trying to argue to the contrary before...


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070653 - 04/07/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
My point was that if a specific variety of cube can have specific characteristics (such as fruit size/shape), then this variety could clearly also have a specific tendency towards factors such as rate of colonisation.



The fruit size/shape/colonization speed/potency will always differ with spores, even in the same variety.

PE is an exception, because it has mutated characteristics to look like dicks, but some will look like regular cubes as well.

The name the vendors give the syringes does not really matter, because the spores will germinate and do what they want, and it would be completely unpredictable, no matter the name given to the spores.

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
What I'm suggesting is that is it is entirely possible for a particular variety to display a general tendency towards faster/slower colonisation.  It was my understanding that this is an accepted fact, I've never come across anyone trying to argue to the contrary before...



Well now you have, because the name of the spores has absolutely nothing to do with how fast or slow the mycellium will colonize a given substrate.

There is just no way to tell what the genetics will be, until they germinate.

Hence the saying, "A cube is a cube, with the exception of PE"

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070658 - 04/07/13 05:58 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Water content of the substrate, ambient temperature, light exposure, can all have different effects on colonization speeds as well.

Edited by PussyFart (04/07/13 05:59 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070668 - 04/07/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:

Well now you have, because the name of the spores has absolutely nothing to do with how fast or slow the mycellium will colonize a given substrate.

There is just no way to tell what the genetics will be, until they germinate.

Hence the saying, "A cube is a cube, with the exception of PE"




What?.... Of course to some degree the genetics is predetermined, regardless of how the spores germinate.  A KSSS monoculture or MS syringe will fruit short/fat fruits regardless of how the spores pair and germinate.  Other genetic characteristics such as this could clearly produce a general tendency towards faster/slower colonisation of the substrate.

Of course I realise that other factors such as water content, temperature etc. will influence colonisation rates.  Broadening our discussion to cover other areas doesn't help you to argue the point that I'm trying to make here...


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Edited by soma_seeker (04/07/13 06:15 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070684 - 04/07/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
What?.... Of course to some degree the genetics is predetermined, regardless of how the spores germinate.  A KSSS monoculture or MS syringe will fruit short/fat fruits regardless of how the spores pare and germinate.



Not really, there are KSSS fruits that look like "normal" cubes, they just tend to grow small and stubby.

You cannot compare an isolated single set of genetics to thousands, it's just not happening, you have no idea what the genetic make-up of all the spores germinating would be.

There is no way to predetermine gentics....

Do you know what a baby is going to look like before it is conceived?

Both parents could be black, but could have an albino kid, followed by a light complectioned kid, followed by a dark complectioned kid, all growing at different rates and sizes....there is just no way to tell what is going to happen until it happens.

Same thing goes with spores, nothing is for sure.

Edited by PussyFart (04/07/13 06:18 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070697 - 04/07/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Not really, there are KSSS fruits that look like "normal" cubes, they just tend to grow small and stubby.





Sure, they will TEND towards a certain characteristic, just as I am suggesting that likewise a certain variety can have a genetic tendency towards faster/slower colonisation....

You keep suggesting different arguments that are related but not inherent to the point I'm trying to make. 

Anyway - if I haven't clarified this for you yet, repeating myself again obviously wont help.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070718 - 04/07/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
Sure, they will TEND towards a certain characteristic, just as I am suggesting that likewise a certain variety can have a genetic tendency towards faster/slower colonisation....



Wrong, sorry, but again, colonization speed cannot be determined by a name given to spores.(meaning variety)

That is like saying a man who grew fast, and a woman who grew fast, will have a baby and it will grow fast...it just doesnt work like that.

Sorry for making references like that, but I do not know how else to explain it.

There is nothing that can connect a name a a variety to a certain colonization speed it will grow out at.

That is determined by the genetic make-up that has not been created yet, among all the other variables.

Just because the certain variety sometimes has certain aesthetic characteristics, this in no way has anything to do with the speed at which it will colonize a substrate.

The genetics will differ from fruit to fruit, and from spore to spore.

Just like children differ, so do mushrooms.

Now, this is getting out of hand, we have a rule and a strain thread dedicated to stuff like this.

6.  Do NOT ask strain questions in cultivation.  There is a sticky thread at the top of the page for such nonsense.  'Strain' in mushrooms is not the same as strain in pot growing, thus we keep 'strain talk' sequestered in it's own dungeon so people won't think it actually matters.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14960167

I am done here, please do some up to date research....a cube is a cube.

Anyone who says a certain variety will colonize faster than another variety obviously does not know much about the subject matter.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070731 - 04/07/13 06:48 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Its become clear neither one of you know wtf you're talking about. Two morons locked in an endless debate over subject matter they understand not.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: IveBeenRecycled]
    #18070734 - 04/07/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

So can u answer his questions, or are you another moron who just jumped into an endless debate for nothing?

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070740 - 04/07/13 06:51 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

You still haven't convinced me of the one point I'm arguing here, but I've no interest in keeping this up either. Guess we'll agree to disagree..

Cheers anyway.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: IveBeenRecycled]
    #18070743 - 04/07/13 06:52 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

IveBeenRecycled said:
Its become clear neither one of you know wtf you're talking about. Two morons locked in an endless debate over subject matter they understand not.




haha how constructive of you!


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070751 - 04/07/13 06:57 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
You still haven't convinced me



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14525776#14525776

Read

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18070767 - 04/07/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14525776#14525776

Read




Thanks, did. Don't think there is anything there that directly refutes the point I was trying to make though?...

Anyway, thanks for the link.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18070781 - 04/07/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I wish I could explain it better, sorry, just trying to help.

Not sure what answer you were looking for here was/is, but multispore is a genetic crapshoot lottery, no matter the variety.

You could have slow genetics, and fast gentics, in the same syringe...so :shrug:

Edited by PussyFart (04/07/13 07:18 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18074446 - 04/07/13 10:06 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
I wish I could explain it better, sorry, just trying to help.

Not sure what answer you were looking for here was/is, but multispore is a genetic crapshoot lottery, no matter the variety.

You could have slow genetics, and fast gentics, in the same syringe...so :shrug:




Yeh, thanks.  The thing is I understand completely everything you've said, I just disagree with your argument that a specific race/variety cannot have a genetic tendency towards faster/slower colonisation/growth.  Of course I realise that in a single multispore solution there are an almost infinite number of genetic combinations which will strongly influence characteristics such as colonisation rate (I've never disputed that), but that doesn't mean that a specific race/variety cannot display a characteristic tendency towards faster/slower colonisation than another race/variety.

Take this quote for example from the very source you suggested that I read.

Quote:

The Truth About The Fastest Growing Cubes:
Some cube races and varieties are known to grow at a faster or slower rate, on average, than others. There is evidence which suggests the fastest cubensis races produce the smallest shrooms and the slower races and varieties produce the most bulky fungus. Ultimately it all seems to even out in the end (with a few exceptions). Also, the slow cubes more frequently display unique macroscopic characteristics (in other words, they are more likely to look noticeably different from other races) while the fast ones usually look like average (or smaller than average) cubes. It tends to take more time to grow a large or unique cube. If you are looking for a cube which produces a LOT of quick bulk, you may be looking for a long time... and you'd better work with agar.





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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18074635 - 04/07/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I took a mushroom hunting/identification class at the local highschool one time and I was taught that there are main families of mushrooms, then you have a bunch of different kinds of mushrooms with similar characteristics (sub-strain) that fall into that family like you have psilocybe cubensis as kind of like a category (parent family) and then all the deviations fall under psilocybe cubensis (b+,PE,Ecuador ect...)
that's the way I was taught and if you think about it it makes sense because all living things are in categories called kingdoms.

but alas im not trying to jump into your argument here haha


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: kinkaku]
    #18074744 - 04/07/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:
but alas im not trying to jump into your argument here haha




haha maybe you can take my place in it...


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18074781 - 04/07/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
Quote:

kinkaku said:
but alas im not trying to jump into your argument here haha




haha maybe you can take my place in it...




sorry man some of us just have die on the cross :cool:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: kinkaku]
    #18074830 - 04/07/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:
sorry man some of us just have die on the cross :cool:




haha


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18075434 - 04/08/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
To say that a certain variety of cubes colonizes quicker than another is a false statement, because they are all the same, in the fact that there will always be genetic differences when dealing with spores.





Using a MS of 2 different "races/variety" can and does produce statistically differing results at times, and no amount of argument can disprove that.  If you have millions of spores from 2 "races" and create IDENTICAL conditions ONE may exhibit differences due to simple genetic limitations.  In that situation, even though you are using MILLIONS of spores, you are getting a general show of what the "race/variety" has.  Yes they are mushrooms, but there are certainly differences.  Penis envy is a good example.  It is a cube, but even through spores produces similar traits as the "parent".  The obvious argument is that "Not all of the mushrooms look like dicks", but there is certainly a predisposition toward phallic looking mushrooms.  This is a great example of selection, and it came about within the lifetime of a human being. 

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
These unique cubes can be selectively bred until these unique traits become common, even via multispore inoculation. This new, unique cube may be marketed as a new 'Strain' but it is really just a unique 'Variety' of cubensis spawned from its original race. Still, many vendors market each unique variety as a new 'Strain'. In general, every single commercially available cubensis 'RACE', is actually a domesticated VARIETY of the original specimen. Domesticated cubes contain intentionally limited genetics in order to increase the likelyhood of achieving the desired results, sort of like dog domestication and subsequent breeding.




This supports the claim that one "race" may colonize slower than another through genetic limitations...Either by intentional "breeding" or via environmental effects.  While I agree in the general taxonomy of the mushroom(s) in question are IDENTICAL, I agree totally that some "strains/race (Whatever you want to call it)" are simply a product of selectively choosing "winners"...either naturally through conditions presented throughout generations, or through man's interventions. 

tl:dr

Some varieties will colonize slower than others.  I agree.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18075440 - 04/08/13 05:17 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the input Whippy.

To be honest I really didn't expect a debate on the topic...


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18075447 - 04/08/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
Some varieties will colonize slower than others.  I agree.



Ok, ill bite this time.

Got any examples?

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18075524 - 04/08/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Got any examples?




Quote:

Whippy said:
Penis envy is a good example.  It is a cube, but even through spores produces similar traits as the "parent".  The obvious argument is that "Not all of the mushrooms look like dicks", but there is certainly a predisposition toward phallic looking mushrooms.  This is a great example of selection, and it came about within the lifetime of a human being. 





If PE looks like a dick consistently, Even though it is a cube for all genetic purposes, ANY other "variety" can demonstrate traits that are "learned" over the course of generations.  Does a tub of PE grow as fast as a tub of "Tazmanian"?  They are both the same genetically.  I didn't post what I posted to further derail the thread, just to point out something very simple that RR has specifically stated.  Im sorry that you don't seem to believe that genetic isolation can happen.  What you seem to be proposing is that any variety will produce statistically identical fruits under the same fruiting conditions.  Were this true, a Tub of PE would colonize at the same rate as any other cube and produce a similar fruit, under the same conditions.  I see where people post "A cube is a cube, unless it is PE", but at the end of it all, Yes they are all cubes, but differ due to genetic variances.  Some have a higher probability of growing in "X" manner, be it slower or faster, or with slightly larger fruits etc.  I think a better way to look at it would be that "Cubes can look and grow the same".  By stating that there is no difference, you are denying the fact that there is any evolution whatsoever.  Its simple statistical probability coupled with a creature's pre-programmed desire to eat, breed, and collectively survive based on external conditions.  What is good for one "variety" is not good for another for some reason or another.  I would wager through domestication, we can make the variables more pronounced.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #18075541 - 04/08/13 06:44 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I was not talking about looks, I was talking about colonization speed, of a certain variety vs another.

I also never said there was no difference, they are all the same in the effect that they are all different.

Give me an example of a variety that  is known to colonize faster than another variety(names), and I will stick my foot in my own mouth, on camera.

Edited by PussyFart (04/08/13 06:45 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18075543 - 04/08/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
I was not talking about looks, I was talking about colonization speed, of a certain variety vs another.

I also never said there was no difference, they are all the same in the effect that they are all different.

Give me an example of a variety that  is known to colonize faster than another variety(names), and I will stick my foot in my own mouth, on camera.




isn't golden teacher on average supposed to colonize pretty fast? just asking


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: kinkaku]
    #18075549 - 04/08/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Not really.

You can have a fast GT isolate and a slow one, they could both look alike when fruited.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18075554 - 04/08/13 06:57 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Not really.

You can have a fast GT isolate and a slow one, they could both look alike when fruited.




I agree with this but what point are you trying to make? (sorry to be repetitive)


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: kinkaku]
    #18075555 - 04/08/13 06:58 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Read the thread bro....

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18077875 - 04/08/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Give me an example of a variety that  is known to colonize faster than another variety(names), and I will stick my foot in my own mouth, on camera.



:standingby:

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18079624 - 04/08/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Not really.

You can have a fast GT isolate and a slow one, they could both look alike when fruited.




By saying this, you're basically using this idea to try and disprove any evidence that was just presented to you. Yes, certain environmental factors and genetics can affect colonization speed, but the fact is that some varieties of p. cubensis tend to be much more aggressive in terms of mycelial growth and fruiting. Example? Tasmanians. Those fuckers colonize and fruit like crazy. It seems the second you pull off the first flush there is no period in between the next, and they fruit almost immediately once again. As for colonization, I've had rye jars colonize in about 10-12 days being the longest, which is slightly faster than the "average" 14-21 days. Of course, your said "fast and slow genetics" could also be a result of the syringe/print you may have recovered or received from a vendor.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: George Sears]
    #18079809 - 04/08/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tacomandood said:
By saying this, you're basically using this idea to try and disprove any evidence that was just presented to you.



True, because there is no evidence that would suggest GT is faster than any other cube variety, when dealing with MS.

So just to get this straight, what your saying is that if I acquire a Taz print/syringe from somewhere, your saying chances are I will see faster colonization speeds when compared to other MS varieties? Like my GT and PE6?

I do not buy that for a second, I need to see some evidence to support this claim. Links, quotes, something.

I am sure there are people out there who have experience with the tazmainian variety that will disagree with that claim as well.

I had MS PE that ripped thru agar and grains really fast, faster than my previous GT or PE6 did, then the next time I used that same PE spore syringe, I saw super slow growth in my master jars/dishes. Slower than my previous GT and PE6 grows.

Why was this? Temps and grain prep were the same.

There is no way to predetermine anything.

Why am I even bothering anymore?

Edited by PussyFart (04/08/13 10:55 PM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18079840 - 04/08/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Think about it, you are dealing with a bunch of isolates, that have not yet been created, stuffed into a syringe or print.

100s if not 1000s of them, no matter the variety.

How would it be possible to say a certain group of spores would perform better than another group of spores, before they have even germinated and shown their potential?

I mean you would have to be a psychic or be able to tell the future, to be able to know how the mycelial genetic structure that hasn't even been created yet will perform, just based off a name of a certain group of spores.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18080262 - 04/09/13 01:52 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Why am I even bothering anymore?




Probably a better topic to debate....

Also, your comment to kinkaku was completely unwarranted, as he was politely pointing out that once again you made a true general statement that has precisely nothing to do with the actual argument...

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Not really.

You can have a fast GT isolate and a slow one, they could both look alike when fruited.




Really?! Wow, thanks for schooling us :laugh:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18080528 - 04/09/13 05:38 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

April 9th

13 days after preparing the first two monotubs neither of them have fully colonised the surface.  Only a very small uncolonised patch remains on each, which is still progressing and I expect will be covered in the next day or two.

I don't plan to introduce the tubs to fruiting conditions for at least several days after the surface is fully colonised, as it clearly has to progress further to achieve consolidation.  At the moment the myc shows no signs of knotting.

The tubs were introduced to a 12 hour lighting cycle yesterday.  I think in the future I will do this initially and not cover the tubs with black plastic.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18081086 - 04/09/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Bulk does not require a consolidation period, you could fruit right at 100% with great success.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18090815 - 04/11/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

April 10th

These first two tubs have now been colonising for 14 days.  They each have a small stubborn patch that is taking its time to fully colonise.  You can see from the closeup photo that the myc layer on the surface is quite thin and in no way consolidated.  I expect to give them another few days at least before introducing to fruiting conditions (cutting the tape from the holes and replacing with polyfill, applying a bubble-wrap casing layer, misting/fanning once a day).

As I mentioned previously, I used quite a bit of pure coir/verm as a top layer to prevent any grains being exposed.  This layer was probably about 1/2" thick, which has obviously contributed to the longer colonisation period.  It seems worth the wait however, as none of the four tubs show any signs of trich so far.



The next photo is the GT tub that was prepared 8 days ago.  I can't see or smell anything that would indicate contamination, so I'm hoping it is just a slow coloniser and will complete eventually.



The last photo is of the tub prepared 9 days ago.  It appears to be progressing in the exact same manner as the first two.



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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18090901 - 04/11/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

your a busy man huh? awesome, your gona be bangin-out some faties any day now!!


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: first time expert]
    #18095830 - 04/12/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Jesus Notahacker, Calm down.  Soma_Seekers just argued that GT had a TENDENCY to colonize slower.  The key word is tendency, which in my mind equals probability.  All of your arguments after this are mute, unless you can say that any different MS variety (GT,PE,B+,KSS....) will not have a tendency (or probability) to follow what it was selectively derived from.  Why would we have a market for different varieties of MS if they all had an equal chance of being the same old a cube is a cube?

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: gtx4406]
    #18095889 - 04/12/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gtx4406 said:
Jesus Notahacker, Calm down.  Soma_Seekers just argued that GT had a TENDENCY to colonize slower.  The key word is tendency, which in my mind equals probability. 



But that's just the thing, you cannot prove that GT has a tendency to colonize slow.

Prove it...quote a TC saying it...something to make me beleive it, because I do not.

Otherwise your just adding to the pile of shit that we call bad info.

Everyone keeps saying I am wrong but refuses to back uop their claims with actual evidence.

Quote:

gtx4406 said:
Why would we have a market for different varieties of MS if they all had an equal chance of being the same old a cube is a cube?



Because mushrooms that come from different regions were given certain names, but they are all the same species, and all share the same genetic differences.

Just link me to a credible source that backs up these statements, and I will shut up.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18097380 - 04/12/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

if yithan came in here and told us we would have to follow his every command for he is the great creator :mushroom2:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: kinkaku]
    #18099741 - 04/12/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, I respect NotaHacker420 for his cultivation skills and general knowledge if cultivation, but seriously dude?
You're saying that everyone else's argument is nothing but crap information being passed around, but the fact of the matter is that your idea of "a cube is a cube and genetics determine everything" is nothing more than a theory.
The same kind of theory that different sub-varieties of cubensis will colonize and fruit at different rates. If YOU can back up what you're saying with real, scientific information, then I'll be willing to accept that genetics are the 100% determining factor in mycelium colonization.
That's like saying "all humans develop and grow at the same speed because of their genetics; a human is a human". Yes, genetics does play a measurable role in development, but environmental factors and adaptations to living conditions can also affect that growth. I believe that sub-varieties of cubensis can adapt and evolve to better fit their environmental conditions as well. Just my two cents.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: George Sears]
    #18099877 - 04/12/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tacomandood said:
I believe that sub-varieties of cubensis can adapt and evolve to better fit their environmental conditions as well. Just my two cents.



Sure, so do I, but any varriety can do this.

When a noob makes a post and asks which variety he should choose, and that he is in a hurry, do we recommend a variety that will colonize quickly?

Or do we say a cube is a cube, and just pick whatever?

I mean if there were certain varieties that had a tendency of colonizing quicker than normal, I think we would be recommending these varieties to noobs that are in a hurry(so to speak), dont you?

Someone earlier said they thought GT was a slow colonizer, but it is one of the most popular varieties out there, why?

All I am asking for is to link me to where you guys learned this from...that is unless you pulled it out of your ass, no offense.

It's not that hard for me to prove my "theory", I can quote TCs saying a cube is a cube all day long, and that it's all a big crapshoot.

But it is seemingly impossible for you to prove yours, seeing as no one has linked me to any credible source yet, after 3 pages of goin back and fourth.

Acceptance is the first step, and I will accept ANY credible source...I am very open to being PROVED wrong.

I am not trying to argue here....just back up your statement....if you can.

Edited by PussyFart (04/12/13 09:48 PM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18101249 - 04/13/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
But it is seemingly impossible for you to prove yours, seeing as no one has linked me to any credible source yet, after 3 pages of goin back and fourth.





I'd say the closest to validating my point was the source that you suggested I read - seemed pretty clear to me that you actually hadn't. 

I guess anyone who knocks up 9000 posts in a year has plenty of experience in fuelling spurious arguments...


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18101273 - 04/13/13 04:09 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

"""""""The Truth About The Fastest Growing Cubes:
Some cube races and varieties are known to grow at a faster or slower rate, on average, than others. ."""""""

That post was very very vague, and it was not said by a TC.

It also did not specify which varieties were faster or slower, just "some varieties".

I would like to know what varieties he was referring to, if any in particular.

If there was a specific variety I think he would have mentioned it/them, or is he keeping that a secret? :confused2:

So again, still need something that disproves the saying "a cube is a cube", when referring to just colonization speeds and nothing else.








(Hint Hint, there is none, or someone would have posted it by now)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18101376 - 04/13/13 05:06 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I have a 6 jars of ms p.cube, same syringe, same innoc date, same location, same temp, same light, same brf and verm, same everything yet 3 jars are almost at 100% and the other 3 are at about 40-50% colonized. What does this mean?:mypleasure:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: first time expert]
    #18101391 - 04/13/13 05:14 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

first time expert said:
I have a 6 jars of ms p.cube, same syringe, same innoc date, same location, same temp, same light, same brf and verm, same everything yet 3 jars are almost at 100% and the other 3 are at about 40-50% colonized. What does this mean?:mypleasure:



Obviously not one of the secret unnamed fast colonizers....  :paranoid:

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18101400 - 04/13/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Oh but they are!! :ninjawe:


Thats what "THEY" told me!!:somefunnyshit:


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Edited by first time expert (04/13/13 05:21 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: first time expert]
    #18106572 - 04/14/13 03:29 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

April 14th

It is now 18 days since the first two tubs were prepared and I still don't consider the surface adequately consolidated to introduce to fruiting.  As a compromise, I replaced the tape over the top holes in the tub with very loose polyfil and set up a fan in the room (which is blowing at the height of the tubs near them, but not directly at them).  I did this for the first two tubs and the second two (which have been colonising for 10 and 11 days).

Hopefully I will be happy with their progress and will fully introduce fruiting conditions (i.e. replace the tape on the bottom holes with polyfil, add the bubble-wrap casing layer and start fanning twice a day).


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18106579 - 04/14/13 03:35 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

You should not be waiting on consolidation, I think you meant colonization.

And you might have just fruited it.

You want high co2 and no FAE during colonization, but now air is passing thru the top holes in the tub, taking out the co2, and replacing it with fresh, less humid air, which is also allowing for evaporation to happen.

Fruiting is the act of getting rid of the co2 and replacing it with fresh air, which is what is happening in your tub right now.

There is no partial fruiting, there is colonization, then there is fruiting, not really a middle ground here.

Edited by PussyFart (04/14/13 03:35 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18106672 - 04/14/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
You should not be waiting on consolidation, I think you meant colonization.

And you might have just fruited it.

You want high co2 and no FAE during colonization, but now air is passing thru the top holes in the tub, taking out the co2, and replacing it with fresh, less humid air, which is also allowing for evaporation to happen.

Fruiting is the act of getting rid of the co2 and replacing it with fresh air, which is what is happening in your tub right now.

There is no partial fruiting, there is colonization, then there is fruiting, not really a middle ground here.




No.  I didn't.

And yes, there is a middle ground.  If you don't think that bulk subs require a period of consolidation that's fine, but I disagree.

I appreciate your input, but you've added nothing that I don't already know.  Many of the the topics you have raised indicate to me that it is you who doesn't understand my intentions.

Again, thank you for your opinion, but please realise that your explanations of simple topics that I'm already aware of are completely unnecessary.


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Edited by soma_seeker (04/14/13 05:00 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18106682 - 04/14/13 05:12 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
And yes, there is a middle ground.  If you don't think that bulk subs require a period of consolidation that's fine, but I disagree.



The consolidation period is not considered partial fruiting, that is part of the colonization phase, and I was not talking about that.

There is no middle ground between fruiting and colonization/consolidation, what you have done when you stuffed polyfill lightly in the top holes and run a fan in the room, is most likely put it into fruiting conditions, that's all I was saying.

When you said "I still don't consider the surface adequately consolidated", that threw me off, because I never look for consolidation of the surfae, I look for surface colonization, and then wait for consolidation of the entire substrate, not just the surface. So I thought u meant colonization, because what you said made no sense to me.

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
please realise that your explanations of simple topics that I'm already aware of are completely unnecessary.



I can't tell.

I have never heard of anyone waiting for the surface to "consolidate" before fruiting.

Waiting for the surface to colonize yes.

Waiting for the entire substrate to consolidate, yes.

Waiting for the surface to consolidate, no.

Do you see where what you said is kinda confusing? lol

Edited by PussyFart (04/14/13 05:12 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18106746 - 04/14/13 05:55 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Based on the fact that the jars were inoc'd using rhizo monocultures I expected the colonisation rate to be more impressive than it was...

Yeah I'm quite proud of these plates, they are the result of the first series of agar work I've ever done. I tried numerous techniques but what lead to these results was transferring a strand of rhizo myc from a fully colonized WBS jar.  You know the rhizo strands that grow straight up from the substrates surface in search of more material to colonize? I took pieces of this with tweezers and scalpel and then grew them out on agar and performed a further 3 isolations.  Seemed to have worked well :smile:




Aerial myc is kind of freaky, it's not exactly what I'd choose to isolate from. :shrug:  OTOH since you saw more normal colonization speed on the rye it worked.  Those plates in the first post are freaking unreal. :thumbup:

Quote:

These first two tubs have now been colonising for 14 days.  They each have a small stubborn patch that is taking its time to fully colonise.  You can see from the closeup photo that the myc layer on the surface is quite thin and in no way consolidated.  I expect to give them another few days at least before introducing to fruiting conditions (cutting the tape from the holes and replacing with polyfill, applying a bubble-wrap casing layer, misting/fanning once a day).

As I mentioned previously, I used quite a bit of pure coir/verm as a top layer to prevent any grains being exposed.  This layer was probably about 1/2" thick, which has obviously contributed to the longer colonisation period.  It seems worth the wait however, as none of the four tubs show any signs of trich so far.




Yowzer, coir/verm as a top layer is not such a good plan - either go case them nonnutritively (like you mentioned, BTW use enough lime to reach pH 8.5) or just mix everything thoroughly.  Leaving unmixed coir on the top is kind of like an open door to contams over a long colonization/consolidation stage. 

It may not matter as if you've provided enough FAE their fruiting mode has been triggered and you can't turn that off.  The next few days should be interesting. :thumbup:

Uhm, not to derail the argument in progress of course. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18106782 - 04/14/13 06:25 AM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Aerial myc is kind of freaky, it's not exactly what I'd choose to isolate from. :shrug:  OTOH since you saw more normal colonization speed on the rye it worked.  Those plates in the first post are freaking unreal. :thumbup:





I'm starting to think it may have been a poor choice too :S 

But yes, they look impressive, and the 4 mycobags I prepared via g2g were fully colonised after only 7 days (!).

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Yowzer, coir/verm as a top layer is not such a good plan - either go case them nonnutritively (like you mentioned, BTW use enough lime to reach pH 8.5) or just mix everything thoroughly.  Leaving unmixed coir on the top is kind of like an open door to contams over a long colonization/consolidation stage. 





Yes it seems that there are two schools of thought here;

1. Mix the material thoroughly so that there is a high ratio of spawn and the surface will colonise more quickly (and have less time highly exposed to contamination).

2. Layer some coir/verm above the mixed material so that no grains are exposed (since it is the grain that is FAR more susceptible to contamination than coir/verm).

I used to use approach 1 and trich always ended up being a problem (often sooner rather than later).  Now I'm using the second approach.  Out of 8 monotubs I have colonising so far none show any signs of contamination (touch wood..).  I think I definitely overdid it with the coir/verm layer, which is causing the long colonisation time, but if it means I'm successfully preventing trich contamination then I'm happy to wait.

Also, I do intend to case at least a couple of my tubs, however I would still use the extra unmixed layer approach (again as an attempt to further prevent contamination) and add the casing after it is fully colonised.

Thanks for your input.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18108168 - 04/14/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

2. Layer some coir/verm above the mixed material so that no grains are exposed (since it is the grain that is FAR more susceptible to contamination than coir/verm).




Not IME. But results may vary.  I use casing at the time of laying out the tubs, unless I don't have it ready. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18108643 - 04/14/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
I use casing at the time of laying out the tubs, unless I don't have it ready. :lol:

:peace:PS




Oh ok, I've never come across that approach. 

Anyway, will see what happens for me over the next few days as you said.

Cheers


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18109296 - 04/14/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Good Post

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: hauserss]
    #18111633 - 04/15/13 06:16 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

April 15th

Decided to go ahead and fruit the first two tubs and see how they go.  This was probably an impatient and incorrect choice, since at least the second tub is clearly not ready to pin (despite having been colonising for 19 days now).



All 8 of the monotubs I have colonising are doing so very slowly, which I think is almost entirely due to the significant coir/verm layer I added above the mixed spawn.  My previous monotub, in which I didn't add such a layer but otherwise prepared in the same manner from MS Ecuadorian spawn, colonised in 10 days.  For the remaining tubs I intend to just keep waiting until their surface appears completely ready for fruiting (which I expect may take up to 25 days!).  Hopefully this won't be too long to have the tubs sealed up (the high CO2 concentration is obviously good for colonisation, but at what point will it become a problem?..)

The first two tubs now have polyfil stuffed very loosely in the top holes (so loosely that vigorously fanning the tubs will cause it to fall out), and very tightly in the bottom holes.  The fan next to the tubs is on the same 12 hour cycle as the light.  The bottom tubs are the second set of two, which are still colonising, however I chose to stuff polyfill tightly in the top holes (rather than leave them covered with tape).  The second set of two tubs have now been colonising for 10 and 11 days (one is an Ecuadorian - the surface of which is almost completely covered with a thin layer of sparse myc, the second is the Golden Teacher isolate and is still less than 50% colonised on the surface).



The fruiting tubs each have a layer of bubble wrap on the surface.  I intend to mist (only the walls of the tub and not the substrate) and fan twice a day.



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Edited by soma_seeker (04/15/13 07:44 PM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18115920 - 04/15/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
April 15th

Decided to go ahead and fruit the first two tubs and see how they go.  This was probably an impatient and incorrect choice, since at least the second tub is clearly not ready to pin (despite having been colonising for 19 days now).






Pinning will proceed from the more colonized layer underneath if you induce it, when I case I only wait until the myc starts breaking through the casing before initiating pinning (unless it's destined for extended consolidation where it might sit with only GE for months first). 

I think you'll see pins in that right quickly. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18117168 - 04/16/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Pinning will proceed from the more colonized layer underneath if you induce it, when I case I only wait until the myc starts breaking through the casing before initiating pinning (unless it's destined for extended consolidation where it might sit with only GE for months first). 

I think you'll see pins in that right quickly. :thumbup:

:peace:PS




This little post concisely answered several different questions that I haven't been able to find answers to.

Cheers :thumbup:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18117880 - 04/16/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

How are you planning to induce 2nd and 3rd flushes? I only ask cause I'm new to bulk grows and I am confused on weather its even possible to produce more than one flush with coir. Any help you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: hauserss]
    #18117893 - 04/16/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

hauserss said:
How are you planning to induce 2nd and 3rd flushes?



Harvest first flush, dunk for a few hours, put back into fruiting and wait.

Just like cakes, except bulk only needs a few hours of soaking.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18118333 - 04/16/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

This little post concisely answered several different questions that I haven't been able to find answers to.




:mushroomgrow:  Yogi Berra said ""You can observe a lot just by watching." :lol:

:peace:PS

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18119034 - 04/16/13 03:47 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
:mushroomgrow:  Yogi Berra said ""You can observe a lot just by watching." :lol:

:peace:PS




Maybe you can answer this as well... In your experience with monotubs have you ever had a tub pin very well around the perimeter (some side pinning, but many just around the very edge)?  My last tub did this, the pins on the side ALL grew to maturity, but the bulk of the surface grew only about 10 pins - most of which aborted about halfway through their growth.

I'd expected that it might be a lack of surface evaporation (I didn't fan the tub), that's why this time I've opted to use the bubble wrap casing approach and fan twice a day.

Any thoughts?


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18119170 - 04/16/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
:mushroomgrow:  Yogi Berra said ""You can observe a lot just by watching." :lol:

:peace:PS




Maybe you can answer this as well... In your experience with monotubs have you ever had a tub pin very well around the perimeter (some side pinning, but many just around the very edge)?  My last tub did this, the pins on the side ALL grew to maturity, but the bulk of the surface grew only about 10 pins - most of which aborted about halfway through their growth.

I'd expected that it might be a lack of surface evaporation (I didn't fan the tub), that's why this time I've opted to use the bubble wrap casing approach and fan twice a day.

Any thoughts?




When pins occur mainly on the sides it's usually because your conditions in the center of the tub are not ideal.
I recommend set-n-forget after you have your holes stuffed right and a fan running :thumbup:
Bubble wrap serves no real purpose in monos. You can get your RH @ 98% with the right amount of poly in the right holes and a fan running...the trick is to increase FAE while retaining that RH. A faux casing layer just serves to smother the sub with pockets of stale air.
24/7 passive FAE tends to provide better results than fanning a few times a day.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18120754 - 04/16/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Right on! Thanks for the help

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18121115 - 04/16/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Any thoughts?




Casing.  Pins appear where the microclimate is most favorable, and if that's the sides and they can get air and proper RH that's where they form. Casing lets them form inside the casing layer or on the surface, with little pockets and what not, kind of like dirt. :thumbup:

OR RH and FAE control, as mentioned. :thumbup:

Yeah I know cubes don't need casing... :shrug:

:peace:PS

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18121143 - 04/16/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
When pins occur mainly on the sides it's usually because your conditions in the center of the tub are not ideal.



:whathesaid:

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18121198 - 04/16/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

:popcorn::getstoned:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18121727 - 04/17/13 01:09 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
When pins occur mainly on the sides it's usually because your conditions in the center of the tub are not ideal.




Yep, realise that thanks.  What I'm not sure of is how best to rectify it.

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
I recommend set-n-forget after you have your holes stuffed right and a fan running :thumbup:
Bubble wrap serves no real purpose in monos. You can get your RH @ 98% with the right amount of poly in the right holes and a fan running...the trick is to increase FAE while retaining that RH. A faux casing layer just serves to smother the sub with pockets of stale air.
24/7 passive FAE tends to provide better results than fanning a few times a day.




This was the process I used last time when I had the issue.  I know some people swear by 'set and forget' but the more I read the more I find people who oppose it.  Obviously I'm not arguing for one way or the other, I'm just trying to find what works for my set of circumstances. 'Set and forget' gave me poor results last time, so this time I'm trying something different.

Cheers


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Edited by soma_seeker (04/17/13 01:10 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18121742 - 04/17/13 01:14 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Casing.  Pins appear where the microclimate is most favorable, and if that's the sides and they can get air and proper RH that's where they form. Casing lets them form inside the casing layer or on the surface, with little pockets and what not, kind of like dirt. :thumbup:





Yeh I figured this would be the popular response.  Would like to give it a go, but in my growing environment the risk of trich contamination is really high (60 year old house with wall to wall carpeting and nearly 40 degree celcius temperature maximums). 

This is why I'm trying the bubble wrap casing tek.  Hoping to get some of the benefits of casing with less of the contam risks.

Cheers.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18123043 - 04/17/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Alright then :shrug:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18124026 - 04/17/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Alright then :shrug:




I do appreciate your input. I have another set of tubs colonising. I think I will make at least one of these 'set and forget' (if just for the reduced exposure to open air), and see how they compare.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18148356 - 04/22/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

April 22nd

Four days ago both of the first two tubs developed a small area of trich mould.  Both tubs still had a small area where the surface was weakly colonised and this is where the contam appeared.

As I've said, with my growing environment trich mould is a constant issue, particularly with bulk grows, so I'm not suprised that this occurred.  Rather than toss the tubs I cut out a section approximately 4 times larger than the contaminated region.  Over the next couple of days a very small spot regrew on each tub and was removed in the same way.  It seems like it is under control.

Obviously I know the risk of further polluting my growing environment and am not suggesting that this is a good approach, but it is what I decided to do. 

Anyway, one of the tubs is just starting to show the development of primordia (the tub that was mistakenly prepared using two isolate strains), and the second has more primordia than I've ever seen before.  There are literally thousands covering the entire surface, several of which had developed into pins this morning.



I'm continuing a 12 hour light and fan cycle, as well as hand-fanning and lightly misting twice a day.  The substrate is constantly covered with bubble wrap (except when hand fanning).

If even a small fraction of these primordia develop into full-size fruit-bodies it will be quite a successful tub :smile:


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Edited by soma_seeker (04/22/13 04:32 AM)

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18148376 - 04/22/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:


If even a small fraction of these primordia develop into full-size fruit-bodies it will be quite a successful tub :smile:



Very nice, congrats.

That is a shit ton of primos.

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18148381 - 04/22/13 04:42 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Very nice, congrats.

That is a shit ton of primos.




Cheers mate :smile:

Yeh when they first developed I was convinced that it must have actually been some kind of strange contamination that I wasn't familiar with.  I couldn't believe the quantity of them.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18148393 - 04/22/13 04:49 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

just curious how many days after inoculation is that beautiful site appearing , got my first tub incubating ,  3 days so far

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: MetalCavs]
    #18148409 - 04/22/13 04:59 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

This has been a fairly strange grow, colonisation took quite a long time.  I had it colonising for 19 days and I introduced the tub to full fruiting conditions a week ago.  So the tub was prepared approx. 26 days ago.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: MetalCavs]
    #18148411 - 04/22/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MetalCavs said:
just curious how many days after inoculation is that beautiful site appearing , got my first tub incubating ,  3 days so far



Why are you incubating bulk substrate?

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
    #18148466 - 04/22/13 05:56 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Not bulk  ,  grow kit has 12 jars

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: MetalCavs]
    #18149372 - 04/22/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MetalCavs said:
Not bulk  ,  grow kit has 12 jars




Good luck with it.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18149717 - 04/22/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Told ya. :lol: :thumbup:

:peace:PS

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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18150672 - 04/22/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Told ya. :lol: :thumbup:

:peace:PS




Yeh, cheers.

Can't figure out why the second (which had looked like the weaker of the two), is doing so well but the first isn't.... Maybe it will pick up.  Surely having two strains rather than one wouldn't have such a huge difference?


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18184772 - 04/29/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

April 29th

Today I harvested the tub with the huge amount of primordia.  The result was a little disappointing, at only 500g (approx. 18 oz).  Hopefully after dunking the tub for 3 hours the second flush will be an improvement...



The second tub is only fruiting around the edge (the same problem I had with my previous monotub).  It had seemed to me that the bubble-wrap casing layer had resolved this problem when the first tub produced such a large number of primordia, but the second tub was treated in exactly the same way.  I'm not sure what caused one to succeed and the other not.

One thing I decided however, was to case my next set of tubs (despite my concerns about trich mould and the extra exposure adding a casing layer will involve).  The composition I used was;

- 30% Verm
- 30% peat moss
- 8.5% oyster shell
- 2.5% calcium carbonate
- 29% water

However, I found that this was FAR too much water and expect that I ended up using only half that amount.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18185852 - 04/29/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Have you tried stuffing the bottom holes tightly and top holes loose?
You won't need to case at all then :shrug:


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18187281 - 04/29/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Have you tried stuffing the bottom holes tightly and top holes loose?
You won't need to case at all then :shrug:




Yep, I read your link thanks.  I stuff the bottom holes as tightly as I can, and the top ones as loosely as I can (any looser and they would fall out from the air-flow of the fan).

I can't understand what is causing the problem, but I'm hoping that casing will help :shrug:

cheers


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18187490 - 04/29/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

500g wet or dry? Still looks nice man.


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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: MushPower]
    #18188121 - 04/29/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushPower said:
500g wet or dry? Still looks nice man.




haha wet. 500g dry for one flush would be a record!

cheers :smile:


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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18225751 - 05/07/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Today I harvested the second flush of my first tub that had the huge amount of primordia (isolate strain E).  Between flushes an area became contaminated with trich and was removed, leaving the tub half it's original size.  The wet mass of the harvest was 650g (23 oz).



I also harvested the first flush of one of my new set of tubs (strain F).  This tub produced an almost complete canopy of very thick and healthy looking shrooms :smile:  Hopefully they will be nice and potent :mushroom2:
The wet mass of the harvest was 1.3kg (46 oz).



My only disappointment with the second tub is that the surface was almost completely destroyed during harvesting.  I attempted to twist them off as gently as possible, but nearly the entire surface was covered with thick networked stalks and large chunks came away with them. 
Any thoughts on how I could try and get the most out of this tub from here on?....


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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18227900 - 05/07/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

This is a pic of the second tub, as you can see the surface is in quite a bad state.  Any suggestions?

Cheers :smile:



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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18230098 - 05/07/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

That's when I use kitchen shears or a sharp knife, you don't have to get them right down to the sub but it prevents the damage. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18231273 - 05/08/13 05:25 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
That's when I use kitchen shears or a sharp knife, you don't have to get them right down to the sub but it prevents the damage. :thumbup:

:peace:PS




Yeh I did consider trying that, but I figured the area of growth left wouldn't be able to pin (which would be most of the surface), and plus I'd also risk that material rotting.... :confused:  You think it is a better approach?


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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18231688 - 05/08/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

soma_seeker said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
That's when I use kitchen shears or a sharp knife, you don't have to get them right down to the sub but it prevents the damage. :thumbup:

:peace:PS




Yeh I did consider trying that, but I figured the area of growth left wouldn't be able to pin (which would be most of the surface), and plus I'd also risk that material rotting.... :confused:  You think it is a better approach?




Stumps won't rot if you have good FAE for your second flush. The mycelium will just grow back over.
And pins will form around / on stumps or in divots.
Mold likes to grow in divots first though, so it's best to cut at the base :thumbup:


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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: soma_seeker]
    #18233261 - 05/08/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yeh I did consider trying that, but I figured the area of growth left wouldn't be able to pin (which would be most of the surface), and plus I'd also risk that material rotting.... :confused:  You think it is a better approach?




Believe it. :thumbup: You only cut them off at the stumps, you don't remove anything other than the actual fruit you're harvesting.  They don't rot, they just get reabsorbed. Whereas when you pull chunks out of the sub, there goes your next flush too.

I do it differently depending on the flush - larger but fewer that will twist off get picked that way, dense flushes like that one get sheared at the root. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: Grow log: Harvest Pics :) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #18233469 - 05/08/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks guys I'll definitely take that approach next time.  I had a scalpel with me at the time to use to and decided not to :crazy:

If I get very little for a second flush I'm thinking I might actually cut the substrate in half, remove the bag and put each half in a different tub.  That way there will be a lot more fresh surface area that might fruit.

Cheers :smile:


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