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 soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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 Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm)  [Re: soma_seeker]
#18080528 - 04/09/13 05:38 AM (11 years, 10 days ago) |
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April 9th
13 days after preparing the first two monotubs neither of them have fully colonised the surface. Only a very small uncolonised patch remains on each, which is still progressing and I expect will be covered in the next day or two.
I don't plan to introduce the tubs to fruiting conditions for at least several days after the surface is fully colonised, as it clearly has to progress further to achieve consolidation. At the moment the myc shows no signs of knotting.
The tubs were introduced to a 12 hour lighting cycle yesterday. I think in the future I will do this initially and not cover the tubs with black plastic.
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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
#18081086 - 04/09/13 09:58 AM (11 years, 9 days ago) |
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Bulk does not require a consolidation period, you could fruit right at 100% with great success.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
 *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
#18090815 - 04/11/13 06:41 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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April 10th
These first two tubs have now been colonising for 14 days. They each have a small stubborn patch that is taking its time to fully colonise. You can see from the closeup photo that the myc layer on the surface is quite thin and in no way consolidated. I expect to give them another few days at least before introducing to fruiting conditions (cutting the tape from the holes and replacing with polyfill, applying a bubble-wrap casing layer, misting/fanning once a day).
As I mentioned previously, I used quite a bit of pure coir/verm as a top layer to prevent any grains being exposed. This layer was probably about 1/2" thick, which has obviously contributed to the longer colonisation period. It seems worth the wait however, as none of the four tubs show any signs of trich so far.
  
The next photo is the GT tub that was prepared 8 days ago. I can't see or smell anything that would indicate contamination, so I'm hoping it is just a slow coloniser and will complete eventually.
The last photo is of the tub prepared 9 days ago. It appears to be progressing in the exact same manner as the first two.
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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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first time expert
practice makes perfect
Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 1,246
Loc: top of mount washington 
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
#18090901 - 04/11/13 07:33 AM (11 years, 8 days ago) |
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your a busy man huh? awesome, your gona be bangin-out some faties any day now!!
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gtx4406
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/13
Posts: 5
Last seen: 11 years, 6 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: first time expert]
#18095830 - 04/12/13 05:05 AM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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Jesus Notahacker, Calm down. Soma_Seekers just argued that GT had a TENDENCY to colonize slower. The key word is tendency, which in my mind equals probability. All of your arguments after this are mute, unless you can say that any different MS variety (GT,PE,B+,KSS....) will not have a tendency (or probability) to follow what it was selectively derived from. Why would we have a market for different varieties of MS if they all had an equal chance of being the same old a cube is a cube?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: gtx4406]
#18095889 - 04/12/13 05:51 AM (11 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
gtx4406 said:
Jesus Notahacker, Calm down. Soma_Seekers just argued that GT had a TENDENCY to colonize slower. The key word is tendency, which in my mind equals probability.
But that's just the thing, you cannot prove that GT has a tendency to colonize slow.
Prove it...quote a TC saying it...something to make me beleive it, because I do not.
Otherwise your just adding to the pile of shit that we call bad info.
Everyone keeps saying I am wrong but refuses to back uop their claims with actual evidence.
Quote:
gtx4406 said:
Why would we have a market for different varieties of MS if they all had an equal chance of being the same old a cube is a cube?
Because mushrooms that come from different regions were given certain names, but they are all the same species, and all share the same genetic differences.
Just link me to a credible source that backs up these statements, and I will shut up.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!
Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Россия
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
#18097380 - 04/12/13 01:33 PM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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if yithan came in here and told us we would have to follow his every command for he is the great creator 
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 George Sears
43rd President of the US
Registered: 02/23/13
Posts: 1,477
Loc: New Mexico
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: kinkaku]
#18099741 - 04/12/13 09:24 PM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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Ok, I respect NotaHacker420 for his cultivation skills and general knowledge if cultivation, but seriously dude?
You're saying that everyone else's argument is nothing but crap information being passed around, but the fact of the matter is that your idea of "a cube is a cube and genetics determine everything" is nothing more than a theory.
The same kind of theory that different sub-varieties of cubensis will colonize and fruit at different rates. If YOU can back up what you're saying with real, scientific information, then I'll be willing to accept that genetics are the 100% determining factor in mycelium colonization.
That's like saying "all humans develop and grow at the same speed because of their genetics; a human is a human". Yes, genetics does play a measurable role in development, but environmental factors and adaptations to living conditions can also affect that growth. I believe that sub-varieties of cubensis can adapt and evolve to better fit their environmental conditions as well. Just my two cents.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: George Sears]
#18099877 - 04/12/13 09:47 PM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tacomandood said:
I believe that sub-varieties of cubensis can adapt and evolve to better fit their environmental conditions as well. Just my two cents.
Sure, so do I, but any varriety can do this.
When a noob makes a post and asks which variety he should choose, and that he is in a hurry, do we recommend a variety that will colonize quickly?
Or do we say a cube is a cube, and just pick whatever?
I mean if there were certain varieties that had a tendency of colonizing quicker than normal, I think we would be recommending these varieties to noobs that are in a hurry(so to speak), dont you?
Someone earlier said they thought GT was a slow colonizer, but it is one of the most popular varieties out there, why?
All I am asking for is to link me to where you guys learned this from...that is unless you pulled it out of your ass, no offense.
It's not that hard for me to prove my "theory", I can quote TCs saying a cube is a cube all day long, and that it's all a big crapshoot.
But it is seemingly impossible for you to prove yours, seeing as no one has linked me to any credible source yet, after 3 pages of goin back and fourth.
Acceptance is the first step, and I will accept ANY credible source...I am very open to being PROVED wrong.
I am not trying to argue here....just back up your statement....if you can.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (04/12/13 09:48 PM)
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
#18101249 - 04/13/13 04:00 AM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
But it is seemingly impossible for you to prove yours, seeing as no one has linked me to any credible source yet, after 3 pages of goin back and fourth.
I'd say the closest to validating my point was the source that you suggested I read - seemed pretty clear to me that you actually hadn't.
I guess anyone who knocks up 9000 posts in a year has plenty of experience in fuelling spurious arguments...
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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
#18101273 - 04/13/13 04:09 AM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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"""""""The Truth About The Fastest Growing Cubes:
Some cube races and varieties are known to grow at a faster or slower rate, on average, than others. ."""""""
That post was very very vague, and it was not said by a TC.
It also did not specify which varieties were faster or slower, just "some varieties".
I would like to know what varieties he was referring to, if any in particular.
If there was a specific variety I think he would have mentioned it/them, or is he keeping that a secret? 
So again, still need something that disproves the saying "a cube is a cube", when referring to just colonization speeds and nothing else.
(Hint Hint, there is none, or someone would have posted it by now)
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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first time expert
practice makes perfect
Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 1,246
Loc: top of mount washington
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
#18101376 - 04/13/13 05:06 AM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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I have a 6 jars of ms p.cube, same syringe, same innoc date, same location, same temp, same light, same brf and verm, same everything yet 3 jars are almost at 100% and the other 3 are at about 40-50% colonized. What does this mean?
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: first time expert]
#18101391 - 04/13/13 05:14 AM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
first time expert said:
I have a 6 jars of ms p.cube, same syringe, same innoc date, same location, same temp, same light, same brf and verm, same everything yet 3 jars are almost at 100% and the other 3 are at about 40-50% colonized. What does this mean?
Obviously not one of the secret unnamed fast colonizers.... 
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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first time expert
practice makes perfect
Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 1,246
Loc: top of mount washington
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
#18101400 - 04/13/13 05:20 AM (11 years, 6 days ago) |
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Oh but they are!! 
Thats what "THEY" told me!!
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Edited by first time expert (04/13/13 05:21 AM)
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: first time expert]
#18106572 - 04/14/13 03:29 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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April 14th
It is now 18 days since the first two tubs were prepared and I still don't consider the surface adequately consolidated to introduce to fruiting. As a compromise, I replaced the tape over the top holes in the tub with very loose polyfil and set up a fan in the room (which is blowing at the height of the tubs near them, but not directly at them). I did this for the first two tubs and the second two (which have been colonising for 10 and 11 days).
Hopefully I will be happy with their progress and will fully introduce fruiting conditions (i.e. replace the tape on the bottom holes with polyfil, add the bubble-wrap casing layer and start fanning twice a day).
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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
#18106579 - 04/14/13 03:35 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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You should not be waiting on consolidation, I think you meant colonization.
And you might have just fruited it.
You want high co2 and no FAE during colonization, but now air is passing thru the top holes in the tub, taking out the co2, and replacing it with fresh, less humid air, which is also allowing for evaporation to happen.
Fruiting is the act of getting rid of the co2 and replacing it with fresh air, which is what is happening in your tub right now.
There is no partial fruiting, there is colonization, then there is fruiting, not really a middle ground here.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (04/14/13 03:35 AM)
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PussyFart]
#18106672 - 04/14/13 05:00 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
You should not be waiting on consolidation, I think you meant colonization.
And you might have just fruited it.
You want high co2 and no FAE during colonization, but now air is passing thru the top holes in the tub, taking out the co2, and replacing it with fresh, less humid air, which is also allowing for evaporation to happen.
Fruiting is the act of getting rid of the co2 and replacing it with fresh air, which is what is happening in your tub right now.
There is no partial fruiting, there is colonization, then there is fruiting, not really a middle ground here.
No. I didn't.
And yes, there is a middle ground. If you don't think that bulk subs require a period of consolidation that's fine, but I disagree.
I appreciate your input, but you've added nothing that I don't already know. Many of the the topics you have raised indicate to me that it is you who doesn't understand my intentions.
Again, thank you for your opinion, but please realise that your explanations of simple topics that I'm already aware of are completely unnecessary.
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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
Edited by soma_seeker (04/14/13 05:00 AM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
#18106682 - 04/14/13 05:12 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
soma_seeker said:
And yes, there is a middle ground. If you don't think that bulk subs require a period of consolidation that's fine, but I disagree.
The consolidation period is not considered partial fruiting, that is part of the colonization phase, and I was not talking about that.
There is no middle ground between fruiting and colonization/consolidation, what you have done when you stuffed polyfill lightly in the top holes and run a fan in the room, is most likely put it into fruiting conditions, that's all I was saying.
When you said "I still don't consider the surface adequately consolidated", that threw me off, because I never look for consolidation of the surfae, I look for surface colonization, and then wait for consolidation of the entire substrate, not just the surface. So I thought u meant colonization, because what you said made no sense to me.
Quote:
soma_seeker said:
please realise that your explanations of simple topics that I'm already aware of are completely unnecessary.
I can't tell.
I have never heard of anyone waiting for the surface to "consolidate" before fruiting.
Waiting for the surface to colonize yes.
Waiting for the entire substrate to consolidate, yes.
Waiting for the surface to consolidate, no.
Do you see where what you said is kinda confusing? lol
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (04/14/13 05:12 AM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: soma_seeker]
#18106746 - 04/14/13 05:55 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Based on the fact that the jars were inoc'd using rhizo monocultures I expected the colonisation rate to be more impressive than it was...
Yeah I'm quite proud of these plates, they are the result of the first series of agar work I've ever done. I tried numerous techniques but what lead to these results was transferring a strand of rhizo myc from a fully colonized WBS jar. You know the rhizo strands that grow straight up from the substrates surface in search of more material to colonize? I took pieces of this with tweezers and scalpel and then grew them out on agar and performed a further 3 isolations. Seemed to have worked well 
Aerial myc is kind of freaky, it's not exactly what I'd choose to isolate from.  OTOH since you saw more normal colonization speed on the rye it worked. Those plates in the first post are freaking unreal. 
Quote:
These first two tubs have now been colonising for 14 days. They each have a small stubborn patch that is taking its time to fully colonise. You can see from the closeup photo that the myc layer on the surface is quite thin and in no way consolidated. I expect to give them another few days at least before introducing to fruiting conditions (cutting the tape from the holes and replacing with polyfill, applying a bubble-wrap casing layer, misting/fanning once a day).
As I mentioned previously, I used quite a bit of pure coir/verm as a top layer to prevent any grains being exposed. This layer was probably about 1/2" thick, which has obviously contributed to the longer colonisation period. It seems worth the wait however, as none of the four tubs show any signs of trich so far.
Yowzer, coir/verm as a top layer is not such a good plan - either go case them nonnutritively (like you mentioned, BTW use enough lime to reach pH 8.5) or just mix everything thoroughly. Leaving unmixed coir on the top is kind of like an open door to contams over a long colonization/consolidation stage.
It may not matter as if you've provided enough FAE their fruiting mode has been triggered and you can't turn that off. The next few days should be interesting.
Uhm, not to derail the argument in progress of course. 
 PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects:  Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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soma_seeker
Stranger in aStrange Land
Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 367
Loc: Down under
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Grow log: 3 monotubs from 3 Ecuadorian rhizo isolates (WBS spawned to coir/verm) [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18106782 - 04/14/13 06:25 AM (11 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Aerial myc is kind of freaky, it's not exactly what I'd choose to isolate from. OTOH since you saw more normal colonization speed on the rye it worked. Those plates in the first post are freaking unreal.
I'm starting to think it may have been a poor choice too :S
But yes, they look impressive, and the 4 mycobags I prepared via g2g were fully colonised after only 7 days (!).
Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Yowzer, coir/verm as a top layer is not such a good plan - either go case them nonnutritively (like you mentioned, BTW use enough lime to reach pH 8.5) or just mix everything thoroughly. Leaving unmixed coir on the top is kind of like an open door to contams over a long colonization/consolidation stage.
Yes it seems that there are two schools of thought here;
1. Mix the material thoroughly so that there is a high ratio of spawn and the surface will colonise more quickly (and have less time highly exposed to contamination).
2. Layer some coir/verm above the mixed material so that no grains are exposed (since it is the grain that is FAR more susceptible to contamination than coir/verm).
I used to use approach 1 and trich always ended up being a problem (often sooner rather than later). Now I'm using the second approach. Out of 8 monotubs I have colonising so far none show any signs of contamination (touch wood..). I think I definitely overdid it with the coir/verm layer, which is causing the long colonisation time, but if it means I'm successfully preventing trich contamination then I'm happy to wait.
Also, I do intend to case at least a couple of my tubs, however I would still use the extra unmixed layer approach (again as an attempt to further prevent contamination) and add the casing after it is fully colonised.
Thanks for your input.
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Taking a psychedelic is analogous to life, if you dwell on reaching the end you'll never enjoy the trip!
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