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sansa
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc?
#17976967 - 03/18/13 10:27 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Can you make jars that have nothing but coir and use them to test LCs? That is will the LC grow on sterilized coir if there's nothing else in there?
Would adding some verm make any difference?
This is for grain LC, would it make any difference if it's a sugar LC?
Edited by sansa (03/18/13 10:28 PM)
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: sansa]
#17976993 - 03/18/13 10:31 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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It should work, people have had great success using sterilized coir has a substrate before.
I think the growth/contams would be easier to spot on a BRF cake though
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: It should work, people have had great success using sterilized Pasteurized coir has a substrate before.
I think the growth/contams would be easier to spot on a BRF cake though
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977052 - 03/18/13 10:48 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
MoGrow said:
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: It should work, people have had great success using sterilized Pasteurized coir has a substrate before.
I think the growth/contams would be easier to spot on a BRF cake though
LOL
dude please don't correct my quote if you're going to be wrong.
I completely understand the difference between pasteurization and sterilization.
If I meant to say pasteurization I would have.
I have no problem if I mistype sometimes and mess up a post hence my sig.
However in this case people find great results with sterilizing coir as a substrate to spawn to.
Edited by Intelligentxfruit (03/18/13 10:53 PM)
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sansa
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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I agree. Since the contents of the jars are not being exposed to normal air, I don't think there should be a need to use pasteurization since there isn't any need to preserve the beneficial organisms.
I would think sterilization would give a more reliable test of whether the LC is pure or not.
Edited by sansa (03/18/13 11:21 PM)
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said:
Quote:
MoGrow said:
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: It should work, people have had great success using sterilized Pasteurized coir has a substrate before.
I think the growth/contams would be easier to spot on a BRF cake though
LOL
dude please don't correct my quote if you're going to be wrong.
If i knew i miss read the posting why would i have corrected this?? Because being wrong feels right? no. Yea it was a brain fart and i miss read i appologize for that, not for correcting what i precieved as wrong.
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: I completely understand the difference between pasteurization and sterilization.
I never said you didnt.
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: If I meant to say pasteurization I would have.
rereading this thread im sure you would have.
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: I have no problem if I mistype sometimes and mess up a post hence my sig.
However in this case people find great results with sterilizing coir as a substrate to spawn to.
Ive never seen coir sterilized as a bulk substrate.
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
Edited by MoGrow (03/18/13 11:27 PM)
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sansa
Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 647
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977229 - 03/18/13 11:27 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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This is not a bulk substrate. This is a test jar.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977233 - 03/18/13 11:28 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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i have seen plenty of sterilized bulk including coir and for a test jar i think sterilized is the way to go
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: sansa]
#17977235 - 03/18/13 11:29 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
sansa said: This is not a bulk substrate. This is a test jar.
I know that now, thus the brain fart comment.. my posting was not directed at you.
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977237 - 03/18/13 11:29 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: i have seen plenty of sterilized bulk including coir and for a test jar i think sterilized is the way to go
Yea now that you mention it i guess your right ... in bags.
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977250 - 03/18/13 11:34 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
MoGrow said:
Yea now that you mention it i guess your right ... in bags.
Not even in bags, mold does not like coir. By sterilizing the coir it cooks it, allowing the myc to decompose it easier for food. Myc loves sterilized coir for this reason.
However sterilizing bulk substrates such as straw and poo would most likley end up with contams because they don't hold the contamination resistance that coir does.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977253 - 03/18/13 11:35 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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i think sterile is your only bet to see if it's clean because a pasturized sub might not show a contam in your lc but a sterile one would
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said:
Quote:
MoGrow said:
Yea now that you mention it i guess your right ... in bags.
Not even in bags, mold does not like coir. By sterilizing the coir it cooks it, allowing the myc to decompose it easier for food. Myc loves sterilized coir for this reason.
However sterilizing bulk substrates such as straw and poo would most likley end up with contams because they don't hold the contamination resistance that coir does.
Not even in bags what ?
Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: mold does not like coir.
Tell that to all the people that get trich from improperly pasteurized subs.
So basically what your saying here is we should all be spawning to sterlized coir? not pasteurized coir?
Guess all our TC have been wasting alot of time and energy.
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977282 - 03/18/13 11:46 PM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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First I do not recommend the majority of people sterilzing their substrates. OBVIOUSLY contam rate is higher....
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
After all, some of the very best grows I've ever seen were on sterilized(yes sterilized) coir and sterilized manure/straw. I know of no beneficial microbes which survive sterilization, nor do I know of any beneficial microbes useful to cubensis. The beneficial microbes in a substrate help to prevent molds, which coir is very resistant to in the first place.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
It's damned hard for mold spores to germinate on coir. I've left wet coir doormats on my porch all year without mold. I've also had wet coir in a bucket for weeks without it molding. When one sterilizes coir either with a pressure cooker or boiling water, they effectively cook it so the mycelium can get a foothold. Since mold can't easily germinate on coir, this works. If you try it with horse manure or straw, you'll be lucky to get to first flush. RR
Yea I guess they have been wasting their time?
thank god for RR, hes a well of knowledge and takes time out of his busy day to educate us all.
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: First I do not recommend the majority of people sterilzing their substrates. OBVIOUSLY contam rate is higher....
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
After all, some of the very best grows I've ever seen were on sterilized(yes sterilized) coir and sterilized manure/straw. I know of no beneficial microbes which survive sterilization, nor do I know of any beneficial microbes useful to cubensis. The beneficial microbes in a substrate help to prevent molds, which coir is very resistant to in the first place.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
It's damned hard for mold spores to germinate on coir. I've left wet coir doormats on my porch all year without mold. I've also had wet coir in a bucket for weeks without it molding. When one sterilizes coir either with a pressure cooker or boiling water, they effectively cook it so the mycelium can get a foothold. Since mold can't easily germinate on coir, this works. If you try it with horse manure or straw, you'll be lucky to get to first flush. RR
Yea I guess they have been wasting their time?
thank god for RR, hes a well of knowledge and takes time out of his busy day to educate us all.
At least quote in context, and yea im sure you do recomend pasteurizing over sterilizing it since it was in RR's post.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Well, aren't you cute?Perhaps you'd be so kind as to enlighten us ass-speakers exactly what beneficial microbes are in manure that cubes love so much. After all, some of the very best grows I've ever seen were on sterilized(yes sterilized) coir and sterilized manure/straw. I know of no beneficial microbes which survive sterilization, nor do I know of any beneficial microbes useful to cubensis. The beneficial microbes in a substrate help to prevent molds, which coir is very resistant to in the first place.I don't recommend sterilizing to noobs because it's more prone to contamination, but for people with flowhoods and experience, they can darn sure pull it off.Now, if you haven't been a member here long enough to see some of Damion5050s coir grows or LargeDose's coir grows, or many others which are the equal of horse manure, then it would be wise to avoid accusing those of us who have of talking out our ass. RR
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Something everybody seems to be missing here is that pasteurization and sterilization accomplish something besides killing off the bad guys. The heat 'cooks' the substrate, making the cellular material within easier for the mycelium to break down. This is why when people do no heat treatment at all with coir, they hardly ever reach full colonization.
It's damned hard for mold spores to germinate on coir. I've left wet coir doormats on my porch all year without mold. I've also had wet coir in a bucket for weeks without it molding. When one sterilizes coir either with a pressure cooker or boiling water, they effectively cook it so the mycelium can get a foothold. Since mold can't easily germinate on coir, this works. If you try it with horse manure or straw, you'll be lucky to get to first flush. RR
I did not and never will argue that coir is much more resistant to mold than other subs, this shows nothing when quoted in full other than the fact that pasteurization and sterilization "cook" coir. which im sure we all knew. And since coir is innately resistant to contams youll have more success with a full sterilization than w/ poo. but its not reccomending you sterilize it nor does it suggest you should. Just because you can do open air G2G's and have some success, it dosent mean you should or that its a good practice. (this isnt a burn on giz, who mentioned doing open air GTG)
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
Edited by MoGrow (03/19/13 12:11 AM)
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977367 - 03/19/13 12:15 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Lol you're angry bro, and I did quote in context. Thanks for arguing my point for me...finally
Goodjob, looks like you learned something, glad I could give you the information we all have access too.
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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lol sure... thats what happened.
you say im mad? im not mad. im reposting this here .. i posted it in the other thread as well.
"Im just trying to clarify things, all i know is when i use bucket tek i get contams, and partial sterilization was the only thing i could come up with. ive since switched to proper pasteurization and i dont see any contams before 3rd flush. maby im wayyy off base here. I know almost everyone ive chatted w/ that had issues with 5050 tek and changed to PP had no more issues, consensus? I know people like NAH420 have stated several times that they use damion5050 with great success, but out of every 4 tubs contaming wasent a good ratio for me. since switching to PP i get 3/3. "
^^ still sound mad?
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
Edited by MoGrow (03/19/13 12:20 AM)
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977382 - 03/19/13 12:22 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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but i'm saying sterile here because he want to test a lc and a pasturized sub might not show a contamed lc. actually i probly wouldn't even use coir to test a lc now that i think about it, a pf cake would give you more accurate results
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977391 - 03/19/13 12:24 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: but i'm saying sterile here because he want to test a lc and a pasturized sub might not show a contamed lc. actually i probly wouldn't even use coir to test a lc now that i think about it, a pf cake would give you more accurate results
I know Cronicr, and your talking about jars, which i posted above i missread the thread. my bad on that after all thats what got all this started. IMO coir = cheaper than BRF.. ive never used coir for test jars, since i still had BRF laying around from my PF grows, tho i think i will for my GLC's.
P.S. sansa - sorry for the
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
Edited by MoGrow (03/19/13 12:29 AM)
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977394 - 03/19/13 12:26 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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I think the issue was somewhere in the conversation you presumed I recommend/thought sterilizing coir was better than pasteurizing no matter what. When actually I just mentioned people getting good results.
but its all good and Nope you sound like you've calmed down a bit lol
have a beer, take a rip, join the club
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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lets just jack this thread for the night! op is probly asleep anyway
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: have a beer, take a rip, join the club
Been there, still doing that, i think it was the 60mg of addy that got my head all twisted and had me miss reading in the first place.
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977430 - 03/19/13 12:33 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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Hahah I think mush cult needs its own dedicated side chat thread. I wish theyed bring the chat boxes back.
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
Intelligentxfruit said: Hahah I think mush cult needs its own dedicated side chat thread. I wish theyed bring the chat boxes back.
ohh how i miss chatterbox. i get all amped up and like back and forth conversation.
If anyone ever feels like chatting hit me up in a PM.
On a side note, sorry for any bad vibes these posts have caused, that wasent my intention at all.
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: MoGrow]
#17977455 - 03/19/13 12:41 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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too much of a stoner to know bad vibes....they are hard to come by lol
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977465 - 03/19/13 12:43 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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-------------------- THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977469 - 03/19/13 12:45 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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hahaha i feel you
and yeah I kinda of baited you with telling you not to correct me...just set everything off bad.
but like cronicr says, we get bored and its either make fun of noobs putting choirs in their substrate or argue about pointless shit. Im usually the one being the asshole about it haha
last night it was about slugs tripping.
we always find something to entertain us.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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holy fuck! only took 11 posts for this site to get to that dude who just got banned! lol just posting here cause the threads locked lol but seriuosly if coir is that contam resistent do you think it's a good idea to see if a lc is clean using it?
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Intelligentxfruit
Earth Hippy
Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 1,545
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977525 - 03/19/13 01:01 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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lol yeah i was laughing my ass off reading his post and seeing the come out.
and Not really and I feel itd be a bitch to see any contams grow on it.
speaking on how contam resistant is, that drunk grow I fruited still hasn't contamed and its didn't finish colonizing has open sub all over it.
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MoGrow
Lysergic Funeral Procession
Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 1,356
Loc: Da Sunshine State
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Can you use coir-only jars to test grain lc? [Re: cronicr]
#17977526 - 03/19/13 01:02 AM (11 years, 12 days ago) |
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im psure you can use any substrate to test LC's in jars. If your testing spores (i know your not just tossing it out there) u need to use a sub that will allow for germination.
On a side note. Will spores germinate on sterilized coir? Im guessing not for the same reasone we were arguing above, coir is contam resistant. I know spawning to coir works because its living culture. Ive never used intentionally sterilized coir so FIIK
-------------------- Trades Current Contest! My current mono (pics) Ghetto Bulk Dehydrator Tek How I Made My Alcohol Lamp Oeric McKenna said: "My innoculant is heavily contaminated with mushroom mycelium"
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