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OfflineChevelle
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Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 23
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
spiritism= druggery?
    #1788963 - 08/07/03 04:49 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I have an interesting moralistic dillemma. I was brought up, reading and believing in the bible, and I would like some input as to what others think about this, so next time I get high, maybe I won't feel so damn guilty.In Galatians 5:19-21, it states,"Now the works of the flesh are manifest and they are...practice of spiritism....revelries and things like these...Those who practice such things will not inhereit God's kingdom."
Now, the literal meaning of the greek word, pharmakia, here rendered,"practice of spiritism", is druggery....
AND at Titus 3:1: "Be in subjection and be obedient to government and authorities as rulers."..Im many locations, possession or use of certain drugs is a violation of the law.
But yet, on the flip side, Jesus himself drank alchohol, which is also a drug, and the bible says its fine to use in moderation, so would you conclude that using drugs in moderation is the same as drinking? Help me shed some light on this subject, i'd be happy to hear from anyone who maybe has the same problem or advice for me....


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Offlineneutralizer
Spiritual beinghaving a Humanexperience
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 635
Loc: This Planet Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1788992 - 08/07/03 04:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Alcohol itself is a drug, my friend.  So are any medicine you get from the doctor.  I see two perspectives you could take:

1.  You follow the laws that man has created to govern ourselves, therefore you don't smoke weed because it is against the law, or

2.  You decide for yourself what is good/bad for you, and don't let silly things like the laughable War on Drugs concern you.  You know you aren't hurting yourself, anyone else, you're not supporting terrorism and you won't run over little girls on bikes as you drive through McDonald's (although your government cares about you enough to lie to you about these things).  You basically decide what you want to do, for yourself.

I say go with #2 :smile:  Keep in mind, too, that almost everything has the potential to be abused (not just drugs!), and that many things (if not abused) can be beneficial and very helpful and/or eye-opening to people if used properly.  It is definately and entirely possible to enjoy cannabis intoxication while keeping your body physically healthy, just as it is definately and entirely possible to enjoy an ethanol intoxication and maintain a healthy body.

I'm not making an attempt to judge you or anything, but I am curious:  do other things that are in the New Testament of the Christian Bible that you do, yet are condemned in said book, bother you?  Or does this one stick out?  Don't answer if you don't want to; I am just curious because when I was a Christian my homosexuality bothered me, and it was the "big" thing that I saw wrong/incongruous with christainity.  Just wondered if you were in a similar situation with weed.


--------------------
There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


Edited by neutralizer (08/07/03 05:09 PM)


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1788995 - 08/07/03 04:57 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I hate the way society seems to seperate legal and illegal drugs. I started a new job today, and they said no drugs on site, and if your found under the influence you will be dismissed. Just 10 minutes before the dude sent us on a coffee break.

I think If jesus used alcohol, which chnages your state of mind, then im sure he wouldnt have minded more spiritual drugs.


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineSole_Worthy
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: neutralizer]
    #1789011 - 08/07/03 04:59 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, I speak to this harcore christian online, and I always tell him when im something, and his argument is always, it is wrong because it is againt the law.

I agree, we should decide for ourselves, as Bob Dylan said "it's not aimed at anyone"


--------------------
get it all together get like birds of a feather


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Sole_Worthy]
    #1789072 - 08/07/03 05:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

You guys all make a really good point, which I will take into consideration.
I know that everything I do, is my choice, and I have to be responsible about the decisions I make..of course.
The part in the bible about respecting the government is very hard to do, considering, like you said,they lie to you...over and over and over..so it is RATHER hard to respect that.
but then again, my moral dilemma comes into place and I find myself stressed about it..the bible says to respect them, but how can you possibly? Not that I live my life by what the rest of the bible says, this seems to be such a sensitive subject for me and it sucks.
and honestly, no where in the bible does it clearly state.."do not do drugs." that would be nice if it did, to clear up some of my guilt.


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Offlineneutralizer
Spiritual beinghaving a Humanexperience
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 635
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1789113 - 08/07/03 05:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chevelle said:
no where in the bible does it clearly state.."do not do drugs." that would be nice if it did, to clear up some of my guilt. 




True.  Though it wouldn't be nice, it would suck :tongue:

I think that as long as you feel your are keeping your body "clean" and "pure" you should be okay.  If smoking weed bothers you about those things, though, try comparing it to other parts of your life.  Do you have premarital sex?  Smoke cigarettes?  Drink alcohol?  If you're having a tough time trying to figure out how you feel about it, try looking at how you feel about similar issues, and why you feel that way.


--------------------
There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: neutralizer]
    #1789138 - 08/07/03 05:45 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

LOL...yes, actually if it clearly stated not to drugs, that would suck...and I would probably go do it anyways.
Yes...I do all of the above..smoke, fornicate and much to my disgust, drink...why oh why? I think I have some deep seeded mental issue. I do smoke weed amongst other things too...its just the guilt man, 90% of the time I end up writing about issues and get all sketchy about the world coming to end and me dying in it. but you've helped a wee bit...:)


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OfflineSpokesman
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Registered: 08/05/03
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1789223 - 08/07/03 06:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

DUDE , READ MATHEWS AND ANY BOOK THAT SPOKE ABOU JESUS!! HE BROKE THE LAW!!, Jesus once found people selling stuff infront of a church(not long before being crucified) and instead of giving his usual peaceful message teaching, he flipped out and flipped every table in that biatch, u this is one of many, u ever see "Jesus of Nazareth" the movie???


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1789236 - 08/07/03 06:17 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm...you know..I knew that too...He flipped out and actually started cursing at the people in authority...Hmmm...excellent point my good sir...do you usually call girls dudes, by the way? lol! No , never seen the movie.


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1789252 - 08/07/03 06:22 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chevelle said:
do you usually call girls dudes,




Sorry bout that, lol.


--------------------


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1789296 - 08/07/03 06:33 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Okay. so now you have me questioning EVERYTHING. Jesus DID break the law by flipping out...yet it says we're not 'supposed' to..so where do we draw that line?
And is it really up to us to decide whats best for us? Because we haven't been doing so good on our own, and the bible is 'supposed' to be a set of guidlines for his creation to follow.....i dunno...


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OfflineMindTrap
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Registered: 08/02/02
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1789331 - 08/07/03 06:42 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It would be innacurate to assume that Jesus was a pacifist.

Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to casy peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

He was an instigator for change. He showed his disdain towards the religeous leaders of the time because they defied God's will.

In the instance of the market place they had disrespected God by carrying on materialistic endeavors in his own house.


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: MindTrap]
    #1789348 - 08/07/03 06:47 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

pardon my ignorance..what is the definition of pacifist?


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OfflinePyronate
Prying open mythird eye

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 100
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Spokesman]
    #1789355 - 08/07/03 06:49 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Spokesman said:
he flipped out and flipped every table in that biatch




Not only that, but he sat down and wove a whip, which he then used to flog the merchants with.


Assault and battery with a deadly weapon... spiritual indeed.


--------------------
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom... keep that in mind at all times."

--Bill Hicks (RIP)


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OfflineMindTrap
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1789367 - 08/07/03 06:51 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

pac?i?fism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ps-fzm)
n.
The belief that disputes between nations should and can be settled peacefully.

A. Opposition to war or violence as a means of resolving disputes.
B. Such opposition demonstrated by refusal to participate in military action.

It was used loosely. I was just trying to say that he was not the lovey dovey man that many people imagine him to be.


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Offlineneutralizer
Spiritual beinghaving a Humanexperience
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 635
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Pyronate]
    #1789371 - 08/07/03 06:52 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

A pacifist is someone who is against armed confrontation.

From m-w.com:
Quote:

1 : opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes; specifically : refusal to bear arms on moral or religious grounds
2 : an attitude or policy of nonresistance




--------------------
There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: neutralizer]
    #1789386 - 08/07/03 06:56 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for clearing that up


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OfflineFunguy
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Chevelle]
    #1789612 - 08/07/03 08:05 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

It wasn't just a whip, it was a cat-of-nine-tails. It had lots of little whips which had bits of rock and broken pottery tied at the ends.
Jesus also defied Pharisee "law" by doing works on the Sabbath.
Speaking of "drugs," Paul said that all things are permissible, but not all are beneficial." I do occasionally smoke Ganja, use HBW, and other sacred plants, but I do so to achieve a state of awakeness where I am closer to God. This is not for all Christians to do. Before I embark on any journey, I pray that God guides me and shows me what he wants me to learn.
Even though I feel this way, I do not go preaching my beliefs to young Christians concerning these sacrements. I am spiritually mature enough to handle what I am doing, many of them are not. It is something they must pray about, as I did for months before I ever picked up a spliff.
Remember that these plants are sacred and not to be abused. Our society is constantly engaged in hedonistic activities, not caring about their spiritual life. I do not think my friends could handle an intense HBW journey.


--------------------

OTD UNDERDOGS

Is attention your retarded heroin?


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Offlineneutralizer
Spiritual beinghaving a Humanexperience
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 635
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: Funguy]
    #1789619 - 08/07/03 08:07 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

I always wondered how long it took for him to sit down and create from scratch a nice cat-o'-nine-tails with which to smack up the people. Then again, I guess he did have JesusFingers? so maybe it didn't take him very long.


--------------------
There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison


Edited by neutralizer (08/07/03 08:08 PM)


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OfflineChevelle
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Re: spiritism= druggery? [Re: neutralizer]
    #1789633 - 08/07/03 08:13 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

what is HBW? never heard of it....am I a complete moron?


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