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OfflineEllis Dee
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Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids
    #17780299 - 02/10/13 11:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

For a long time America was a land of freedom and opportunity. Now America has become a land of tenant slaves much like the nations it's immigrants fled. Debtors prisons are back. I'm glad. Americans deserve this and more suffering for failing to be vigilant against tyranny and oppression. Let the wailing commence.

:lol:









Arkansas law jails tenants who don’t pay their rent

By David Ferguson
Saturday, February 9, 2013 13:05 EST



Under a state law in Arkansas, renters can be imprisoned for failing to pay their rent. According to a report by Human Rights Watch, titled “Pay the Rent or Face Arrest: Abusive Impacts of Arkansas’s Criminal Evictions Law,” hundreds of tenants each year are taken to court, fined and jailed under the state’s “failure to vacate” law.

“The failure-to-vacate law was used to bring charges against more than 1,200 Arkansas tenants in 2012 alone,” read the report. “This figure greatly understates the total number of people impacted by the law. The vast majority of tenants scramble to move out when faced with a 10-day notice to vacate rather than face trial — and with good reason.”

The report continued, “Making matters considerably worse, the law strongly discourages accused tenants from pleading not guilty. Those who do are required to deposit the total amount of rent they allegedly owe with the court, which they forfeit if they are found guilty. Tenants who are unable to deposit the rent amount but plead not guilty anyway face substantially harsher fines and up to 90 days in jail. Tenants who plead guilty face none of this.”

Landlords and corrupt public officials have frequently abused the law, which is unlike landlord-tenant law in any other state in the union. HRW reported, “Several of the tenants interviewed for this report were confronted at home or at work by police officers who had warrants for their arrest. One woman was berated in open court by a district judge, who compared her to a bank robber.”

Another woman was repeatedly charged under the law based on false reports from the man she bought her house from, even though she had paid for it in full. In another situation, “Human Rights Watch interviewed one tenant whose landlord got an arrest warrant issued against her just three days after ordering her to move out.”

According to the Arkansas Times, a state commission recommended changes to the law in January. Calling Arkansas landlord-tenant law “significantly out of balance,” the non-legislative study group urged 15 major reforms “intended to even the playing field between landlords and tenants.”

[image via Shutterstock]


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/02/09/arkansas-law-jails-tenants-who-dont-pay-their-rent/


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #17781649 - 02/11/13 07:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Good for Arkansas.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #17781853 - 02/11/13 09:52 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"When the world is going down, you make the best of what's still around" -Sting


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InvisibleHammurabi
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Icelander]
    #17781904 - 02/11/13 10:12 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I see no problem with this the debtors can work for free for the state to pay off there debts. Everyone wins except the fiscally irresponsible.


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Ellis Dee] * 3
    #17782172 - 02/11/13 11:45 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

This is just a bunch of rhetoric.  This isn't "debtor's prison."  They aren't jailed for failure to pay the rent.  They are jailed for refusing to vacate after not paying rent.  At some point, continuing to keep possession without an intent to pay rent is theft, and I don't see a problem with prosecuting them for it.

Tenants that don't want to go to jail are free to vacate the unit.


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Offlinemm.
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Enlil]
    #17783449 - 02/11/13 04:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

I don't know how it works in other US states, but here in England if a tenant doesn't pay the rent the landlord applies for a court order to evict them, so they'll have at least one month's notice to quit.

Once evicted the landlord can take the tenant to a civil court to recover the outstanding money, if they tenant still doesn't pay the court can make a deduction from earnings or order assets to be seized.

I don't see why jail should be necessary in such proceedings.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: mm.]
    #17783611 - 02/11/13 04:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Why should a landlord have to wait a month? It's OK for the tenant to steal from the landlord?

(it's basically the same here. tenants have a license to steal)

Someone who steals belongs in jail.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #17783706 - 02/11/13 04:44 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)



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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Ellis Dee] * 3
    #17784510 - 02/11/13 07:11 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?


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InvisibleHammurabi
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: gluke bastid]
    #17784521 - 02/11/13 07:13 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?



How are the people who aren't making rent payments benefiting america?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: gluke bastid] * 1
    #17784556 - 02/11/13 07:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?



:facepalm:Once again they are not being sent to jail for not paying the rent.  They may be sent to jail for not getting the fuck out when they are told to get the fuck out.


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Hammurabi]
    #17784559 - 02/11/13 07:18 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Hammurabi said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?



How are the people who aren't making rent payments benefiting america?




Who said they are?


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InvisibleHammurabi
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: gluke bastid]
    #17784563 - 02/11/13 07:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Hammurabi said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?



How are the people who aren't making rent payments benefiting america?




Who said they are?



:ohyou:


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Hammurabi]
    #17784578 - 02/11/13 07:21 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Hammurabi said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
Quote:

Hammurabi said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?



How are the people who aren't making rent payments benefiting america?




Who said they are?



:ohyou:




People who use animated gifs instead of making points in political discussion should receive mandatory sentencing, that's for damn sure.


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OfflineAlanWatts
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids *DELETED* [Re: mm.]
    #17785272 - 02/11/13 09:16 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by AlanWatts

Reason for deletion: meh



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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: AlanWatts]
    #17785286 - 02/11/13 09:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Way to ignore facts.


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Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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Offlinemm.
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #17787492 - 02/12/13 05:33 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Why should a landlord have to wait a month? It's OK for the tenant to steal from the landlord?

(it's basically the same here. tenants have a license to steal)

Someone who steals belongs in jail.




Stealing requires an intention to permanently deprive someone of something.

Being late in payment of rent is not stealing. Otherwise all companies who've paid invoices late are committing criminal acts.


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: mm.]
    #17787558 - 02/12/13 06:15 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

You seem to have missed the point completely...no one is going to jail for paying the rent late. They are going to jail for staying in the rental unit after being given notice to vacate.  Every day that they do this deprives the owner permanently of possession of that unit for the day.  The product that a landlord deals in is possession rights for a period of time.  If a tenant deprives the landlord of a day of possession rights, that's permanent....he's not getting that day back.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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Offlinemm.
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: Enlil]
    #17787630 - 02/12/13 06:56 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You seem to have missed the point completely...no one is going to jail for paying the rent late. They are going to jail for staying in the rental unit after being given notice to vacate.  Every day that they do this deprives the owner permanently of possession of that unit for the day.  The product that a landlord deals in is possession rights for a period of time.  If a tenant deprives the landlord of a day of possession rights, that's permanent....he's not getting that day back





You misunderstand the law relating to theft, and also the difference between civil and criminal law. Depriving someone of something for a day is not depriving someone of something permanently. If I am a day late paying a loan back, I am not committing theft by depriving the lender of money for a day - it is a civil not a criminal matter. If I hide a self-employed workers tools and prevent him working for a day, I am not stealing a day's labour from him. Sure he might take me to a civil court to get compensation, but it's not criminal theft.

Theft aka stealing requires a dishonest intention to permanently deprive, and would only be relevant for property if say, someone other than the owner commits fraud in order to sell the property and have it demolished.


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Offlinemm.
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Re: Welcome back to the dark ages America, debtors prison for you and your kids [Re: zappaisgod]
    #17787640 - 02/12/13 06:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

gluke bastid said:
The American obsession with throwing more and more people in jail for more and more crimes for longer and longer amounts of time is short-sighted and emotional and cripples our progress as a Nation.

How the fuck does our country benefit at all by sending people to jail for not making rent payments?



:facepalm:Once again they are not being sent to jail for not paying the rent.  They may be sent to jail for not getting the fuck out when they are told to get the fuck out.




Surely getting them the fuck out should be sufficient? The landlord can always take them to court for damages if he think it's appropriate.

Do you think people should be jailed for returning a rented vehicle an hour late?


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