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Anonymous
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 DiMiTriSouljah
No left turn unstoned
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 1,119
Loc: ked in a Skin Pinata
Last seen: 5 months, 29 days
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Peace everyone. There's no need for all this nonsense. We have established the things that needed to be debunked and now it's just degrading into a schoolyard hair-pulling contest.
-Coricidin can be very dangerous, especially for someone lacking the cytochrome P450-2D6 liver enzyme (7% of caucasians have a highly inefficient version of this enzyme). The people lacking this enzyme seem to metabolize DXM differently and the users don't experience any of the effects of DXO (which could be desirable for some) because it converts the DXM into 3-methoxymorphinan (3MM) using the P450-3A4 and/or P450-3A5 enzyme as a catalyst. From there it converts into 3-hydroxymorphinan (3HM) via the (less efficient) P450-2D6. So the cycle goes DXM-DXO-3HM for people with functional cytochrome P450 enzymes, and DXM-3MM-3HM for people with deficiencies. (1)
-People have taken Coricidin in recreational doses many times and have not immediately shown adverse effect. Any negative effect from pure DXM seems to negate itself with time. However, to my knowledge, there have been no conclusive studies done on the reversibility of DXM + CPM induced brain damage (if there even is any).
1 - The Dextromethorphan FAQ, William E. White: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dxm/faq/dxm_physiological.shtml#toc.9.5
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In the end, my friend, we will all be together again.
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,086
Loc: London
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
Phencyclidine said:
Quote:
YellowPurpleHills said: Cordicidin is the choice if you want to experience dxm without having to drink that nasty shit. Just take about 12-16 of the Cordicidin Pills and you will be gone for a long long time.
VERY BAD ADVICE.
Each Coricidin pill has 4mg of Chlorpheniramine maleate. 12 to 16 of these pills would include 48mg to 64mg of Chlorpheniramine maleate. That's a substantial overdose of an antihistamine / anticholinergic drug. Coricidin has killed people, as well as made people bleed from every orifice of their body. The problem with Chlorpheniramine is that you can't predict if you're hypersensitive to it, it has an extremely long half-life (12 to 15 hours) and it inhibits CYP-2D6.
Get a clue.
all true, except the bit about chlorpheniramine (generic name, no Capital needed unless call call it Piriton) inhibiting 2D6, which it doesn't.
but yes, you'd be an idiot to go messing around with large doses of antihistamines (sedative) or with large doses of opiates, for that matter.
get over the ratings, yellowpants. don't whine about them - change yourself, go earn some better ratings to put those 1s in the shade and in the past. if i click on your name, it tells a tale at the moment. i ain't gonna rate you down for what i read, but i sure ain't gonna give you any credit for it.
 to phencyclidine for stopping anyone followin your sorry opiate addict footsteps 
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meh
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 Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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Quote:
all true, except the bit about chlorpheniramine (generic name, no Capital needed unless call call it Piriton) inhibiting 2D6, which it doesn't.
Wrong.
These studies:
In Vitro Characterization of Cytochrome P450 2D6 Inhibition by Classic Histamine H1 Receptor Antagonists
Bettina A. Hamelin, Asm?a Bouayad, Beno?t Drolet, Anne Gravel, and Jacques Turgeon
Drug Metabolism and Disposition
Vol. 26, Issue 6, 536-539, June 1998
CYP2D6 is the principal cytochrome P450 responsible for metabolism of the histamine H1 antagonist promethazine in human liver microsomes.
Nakamura K, Yokoi T, Inoue K, Shimada N, Ohashi N, Kume T and Kamataki T
Pharmacogenetics
(6), 449-457, 1996
Say that it is in vitro. Since the mechanism isn't understood, and it's only been recently confirmed to inhibit 2D6 in vivo, it doesn't usually appear in pharm. chem books.
and this study:
Inhibitory effects of H1-antihistamines on CYP2D6- and CYP2C9-mediated drug metabolic reactions in human liver microsomes.
He N, Zhang WQ, Shockley D, Edeki T.
European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology
Volume: 57, Issue 12, February, 2002, 847-851
says that chlorpheniramine inhibits 2D6 in vivo. I'd be happy to send you the full text.
Of course, both the in vivo and in vitro studies are done on humans (enzymes).
As for the capitalizing, thanks for telling me.
Quote:
to phencyclidine for stopping anyone followin your sorry opiate addict footsteps
Depending on how you use the term opiate, DXM may not be an opiate. "Opiate" is typically defined as something that has morphine-like structure and effects like morphine. DXM does not possess traditional opiate-like effects, nor does it bind to opiate receptors. DXM is not considered an opiate the vast majority of the time.
DXM is not known to be physically addictive.
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,086
Loc: London
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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hmm, well i have to respectfully disagree. if chlorpheniramine is a 2D6 inhibitor in vivo (the only time it matters) then its effects are clinically insignificant. i'd love to see the paper you mention. i work in this field.
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meh
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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I will either send you a .PDF, attach it here, or convert the .PDF to .JPG and post it.
I agree that the in vivo study is the only one that's relevant.
Perhaps I should be a little more cautious. I accidentally stumbled across the in vivo paper recently, so that's the only reason why I knew about. However, I will retract my statement and say that I don't call it a 2D6 inhibitor as a given fact, only that one study has observed it to do so in vivo, and thus it is likely to turn out to be a 2D6 inhibitor.
BTW, since you work in this field, do you happen to know if polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (such as benzo[a]pyrene) induce 2D6 strongly? I have only read that they induce P-450, but with no specifics.
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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Here's the file converted from .PDF to .JPG
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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Sorry if it's tough to read. You might want to copy and paste it to a paint program so that you can zoom in.
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,086
Loc: London
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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there are no known 2D6 inducers. this is the only clinically interesting isoenzyme of this superfamily for which this is the case. 
you may be interested to know, though, on a slight tangent, that ecstasy (MDMA) 'poisons' all the body's 2D6, and a single pill can effectively render somebody into a 'poor metaboliser' for around 2 weeks, until they can regenerate more of the enzyme.
aromatic hydrocarbons (like those formed after barbecuing meat) may be implicated in the induction of several P450s, most commonly quoted as being 'nonspecific induction' though sometimes 1A2 (which is also induced by cigarette smoking and by brussels sprouts!) is named.
many substances are substrates as well as being inhibitors as well as being inducers of one or a handful of enzymes, and this action may be as a receptor agonist (partial, complete or 'reverse'), antagonist, mixed picture, or by some non-receptor mechanism. the subject is VAST!
hope some of this was interesting to you. i do not claim to know the subject inside out and am often wrong. 
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meh
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,086
Loc: London
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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cool,thanks. i'll read and learn too 
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meh
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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Quote:
shirley knott said:
there are no known 2D6 inducers. this is the only clinically interesting isoenzyme of this superfamily for which this is the case.
Wow. Crazy. There must be a steroid that they'll find soon. Apparently pregnant women have elevated levels.
Quote:
many substances are substrates as well as being inhibitors as well as being inducers of one or a handful of enzymes, and this action may be as a receptor agonist (partial, complete or 'reverse'), antagonist, mixed picture, or by some non-receptor mechanism. the subject is VAST!
Yes, it's all very complicated and hard to sort out sometimes. One enantiomeric product may inhibit the metabolism of the other enantiomer and lead to the build up of toxic effects. It's neat, even if it is complicated. I'm amazed by the heroic efforts the body puts into getting rid of foreign molecules.
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,086
Loc: London
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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i just managed to print that out, and will read it later when i have my microscope and fuzzy eyes in! thankyou.
i believe that pregnant women have elevated levels because of the placenta's role in metabolism - it contains P450 enzymes. the state of being pregnant is supposed to be an enzyme inducing state, but whether this is the reason i am not sure.
cyP450 enzymes also play a part in cholesterol and steroid synthesis and metabolism among other roles. some members of the family are among the most conserved proteins between life forms (?phyla) - mammals, reptiles, plants, fungi, protozoa etc etc.
all quite fascinating, to me at least. i also rambled and droned on about this subject in a post containing the word 'grapefruit' in the FAQ forum a few months ago, if you want to do a search.
 sk
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meh
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bluedolphin
member
Registered: 07/09/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Wow this really got out of control.
The point is that have the choice of taking DXM safely (pure DXM or Tussin Max Cough) or you can make your DXM experience possibly life threatening.
Why be a complete dumbass and eat Corcidin when there are safe ways to use DXM?
Yes, people have died from E. But I don't know of any people that have died from pure mdma in an appropriate environment. Think of Corcidin as E laced with PMA, it is very easy to overdose. So why not just take the pure product, considering that its so easily available?
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Phencyclidine
Molecule
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 2,915
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When you read it tell me what you think, or if anything noteworthy sticks out to you. You're probably more educated in the field than I am if you actually work in this area.
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YUN_ONE
Stranger
Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 35
Loc: MEXICO
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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whoever does coricidin why dont just go and by keyboard duster and huff it.
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