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Offlinekoods
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #18576938 - 07/18/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No state has ever seceded, and none ever will.




I assume you mean successfully.


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OfflineJohnny Depp
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost yo [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #18577006 - 07/18/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

.

Edited by Johnny Depp (12/19/14 05:19 PM)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: koods]
    #18577068 - 07/18/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I assume you mean successfully.



I mean at all.

Southern states tried to secede, but they were always a part of the U.S.  They just thought they weren't.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #18577079 - 07/18/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

That's probably what the ROC says about the PRC and visa versa :smilingpuppy:


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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: twighead] * 1
    #18577208 - 07/18/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

The winner gets to write the history books.


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Invisible4runner
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: justinpierceec]
    #18577298 - 07/18/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

justinpierceec said:
That’s because your state receives far more back from Uncle Sam in government spending than you pay in federal taxes. If you go it alone, you’ll have to make up the difference yourselves.




I think it's funny how the feds cut off our supplemental income (fed $$$) and now counties in southern Oregon are going bankrupt. Can't even keep jails open so now someone that breaks into a house, get's caught, released, and does again, no worries. Fuckers are getting caught twice a day. Other areas are forming "posses", as the media calls them, basically armed neighborhood watch. Why did this all happen. Because the Feds stopped the logging. Then they gave us an allowance. Now they stopped. Places like Cave Junction where a mill was just closed ended up putting over 85 people out of work. 85 might not sound like much, but when the population is under 2000, and the nearest large town is 30 miles away, plus add another 30 miles to the biggest city in Southern Oregon, which is medford, all of which have a crappy economy... That town is fucked.

Fuck the feds.

This shit needs to happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
We'll grow all your pot, and well log wisely.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: 4runner]
    #18577477 - 07/18/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I don't know much about logging in Oregon, but as a general rule, when you have an overwhelming economic interest in a resource that can be depleted, that resource will be depleted. It happens with fishing, crabbing, logging, etc... The people who rely on that resource will milk it until it has been completely consumed. People who can't regulate themselves need external regulation.


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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisible4runner
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: koods]
    #18577504 - 07/18/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

It can be done properly here.
Lot's of land.
It just has to be done "properly".

Besides, the green would be the cash crop if Jefferson State happened.

Edited by 4runner (07/18/13 06:05 PM)

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: koods]
    #18577517 - 07/18/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Saying they did not secede is like saying someone who broke out of jail and was recaptured never broke out of jail. The usual idiotic circular logic.

We need to form a new union and the next one should have a sunset provision in all laws passed by congress. They should also outlaw payola also known as campaign contributions, honoraria, speaking fees, etc and so on.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18577634 - 07/18/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Anyone can claim to be an independent nation, but unless it has the force of law, it's meaningless.  The SCOTUS has already ruled that the confederate states' secession had no legal force.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18577637 - 07/18/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Saying they did not secede is like saying someone who broke out of jail and was recaptured never broke out of jail. The usual idiotic circular logic.

We need to form a new union and the next one should have a sunset provision in all laws passed by congress. They should also outlaw payola also known as campaign contributions, honoraria, speaking fees, etc and so on.




Sunset provisions are one of the main sources of dysfunctional government. It means difficult decisions must be made over and over, and that even if a law is working, it will end. If something doesn't work, change it.


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Invisible4runner
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #18577761 - 07/18/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The SCOTUS has already ruled that the confederate states' secession had no legal force.




That's why we need more militias.

Crap, then NATO would come in huh?

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: 4runner]
    #18581617 - 07/19/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

People can kiss scotus ass until their lips turn brown but scotus is as wrong as the rest of the system.

The confederate states operated as independent states, passed their own laws, did not obey the union and otherwise comported as part of an independent country. As for scotus, see my comment above.

koods, i didn't say sunset them after a year or so but do you really want some idiotic law to stand forever unless overturned? And anyone with an ounce of honesty will admit much of the laws passed by congress in the last 5 years or so have been idiotic. Perhaps longer than that.

Then you have extralegal actions such as signing statements by the pres who signs a law saying he will not follow it. Where is the impeachment process when you need it most?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18581929 - 07/19/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

States have been free to pass their own laws since before they were states.  That's irrelevant.  The fact is that they tried to secede and got their butts kicked.  If they had been successful, they wouldn't be a part of the U.S. today.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #18582271 - 07/19/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Mr talk in circles is changing his tune slightly. Now instead of saying they never seceded, he says they didn't succeed. Wait, are you going to tell us the south lost the war? :facepalm: any other news flashes?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18582314 - 07/19/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

They never seceded.  They tried, but they failed.  There is no means by which a state can secede.


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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #18584052 - 07/20/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

They did secede. They were independent states for a matter of years. The union forced them back in but saying they never seceded is like saying a prisoner who escaped and lived free for several years and was recaptured, never escaped. That is your position. Those years of doing whatever they wanted to were imaginary. Or like when slaves escaped and were forced back into slavery, you will tell them they never escaped in the first place.

It happened once and it can happen again. There is no need for a war, simply let the new union live in peace.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18584179 - 07/20/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

They were never independent states, and they never had years of doing whatever they wanted.  On the contrary, they were constantly in a state of battle over it.  Saying they were independent states is like saying that you're exempt from the law because you can do whatever you want, and all the state can do is punish you for it.

It will never happen.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #18585444 - 07/20/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

>They were never independent states

Yes they were


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #18585467 - 07/20/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Snappy comeback, bro.  It doesn't make it true, however.


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