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Offlinejustinpierceec
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What seceding from the U.S. will cost you?
    #17246924 - 11/19/12 04:41 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-seceding-from-the-us-will-cost-you-2012-11-16?link=MW_story_popular/


Your state wants to secede from the union. What will this mean for your taxes?

I have good news and bad news. The good news is really good. But the bad news is really, really bad.

We’ll get to them in a moment.

Talk of secession is in the air. The White House this week confirmed that residents in all fifty states had submitted petitions asking to leave the union. Will the last one left please turn out the lights?

Residents in seven states, all in the former Confederacy, submitted more than 30,000 signatures each — enough that some hapless bureaucrat or intern will now have to take a look at their petitions.

The news comes 150 years after the Civil War, and just in time for Steve Spielberg’s biopic of Abraham Lincoln, the man whom we have to thank — if that’s the word I want — for the continued forcible marriage of the once-independent states.

It’s only a couple of years since Texas governor Rick Perry hoisted a rhetorical secessionist flag in response to Obamacare. In the last few years, anti-federal “10th Amendment” resolutions, emphasizing the primacy of states’ rights versus those of the union, have passed the legislatures of 12 states in the South and West. In five states, the governors signed them, too. (The 10th Amendment to the Constitution says states’ rights come before those of the federal government. The last time anyone in Washington actually paid attention to it, the ink was still wet.)

But what would any of this actually mean for your taxes?

The upside is you will be liberated from the sheer living hell of the federal tax code.

I don’t care where you live, and how badly run your local state government is. Nothing could be worse than this monstrosity. I once calculated that it was three times as long as the complete works of William Shakespeare. The instruction booklet for citizens, once two pages long, is now pushing 200.

The federal tax code is the kind of punishment victors used to impose on conquered peoples, along with the gouging of eyes and the rack. That was in the days before the Geneva Convention. I still don’t understand why, in this country, people are simultaneously considered so monumentally stupid that everything has to come with idiotic warnings on the side (“Caution: Do not jab fork repeatedly in eye, or injury may result”), and yet are considered so brilliant that they can maneuver through Schedule C, Schedule F, Schedule X, calculate your passive losses, divide by the shoe size of your sixth grade primary school teacher, carry the 7 unless it’s a Thursday, and multiply by the square root of the I.Q. of the guy next to you on the bus, and so on.

It’s not the total amount of federal tax dollars I pay which makes me want to put on a grey uniform, it’s the awful, awful process.

Secede, and you will never have to file a federal tax return again. Bliss. That’s the good news.

Alas, there’s also some bad news.

For most of you in the New Confederacy of the South and West, if you secede you will end up paying more in taxes than you do now, and you will get fewer government services. Forget the so-called “fiscal cliff.” We’re talking about a fiscal Death Star. Your economies will go into recession, and fast.

That’s because your state receives far more back from Uncle Sam in government spending than you pay in federal taxes. If you go it alone, you’ll have to make up the difference yourselves.

Take Alabama. (No jokes, please). It’s among the seven states whose secession petition has landed 30,000 signatures. Its legislature has also passed, and its governor signed a 10th Amendment Resolution. But at the last count, Alabama got back about $1.66 in federal spending for every dollar its citizens paid in federal taxes. The gap — the subsidy the rest of America paid to Alabama — totaled about $3,800 for every person in the state.

Louisiana is also among the seven petitioning for secession. A 10th Amendment resolution has passed both houses of its legislature.

At the last reckoning, Louisiana got back about $1.78 from Uncle Sam for every dollar its citizens pay in. That was about $4,200 per resident.

These figures are admittedly long in the tooth. They date back to 2005. They used to be calculated every year by the Tax Foundation, a conservative-leaning, albeit independent, Washington think tank. Alas, the Foundation says funding dried up for the research. Conservative-leaning donors became reluctant to pony up. You can see why.

While the foundation is no longer doing the math, the general trend has remained the same. The allegedly “low tax,” conservative red states of the South and West are heavily subsidized every year by the federal government. In other words, they are subsidized by the New Union: the states of the Northeast and the West Coast.

The picture was astonishingly consistent year after year as the Tax Foundation did the study.

Take the seven states which have gathered 30,000 or more signatures to secede: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

In the last year for which the Tax Foundation ran the numbers, their residents paid about $473 billion in federal taxes and received about $533 billion in federal spending. In other words the seven states which want to secede the most pocketed a $60 billion subsidy from Uncle Sam. That works out at about $700 for every household in the rest of the country.

Meanwhile, most states in the Northeast, around the Great Lakes and on the West Coast paid in more than they got back. Californians paid $1,300 more in taxes than they got back in federal spending at last count, according to the Tax Foundation. New Yorkers paid $2,200. New Jerseyans: $3,200.

The real mystery is why voters in these states continually vote for more federal programs. They’re turkeys voting for Thanksgiving.

Some years ago, over lunch, I put this to a Massachusetts Congressman. He had no response.

Bottom line?

If you live in the New Confederacy, and the local secession movement really gathers momentum, you may want to make two smart financial moves.

The first is to sell your home, and rent.

The second is to withdraw your money from your local bank before it gets forcibly converted into Confederate dollars. Can I recommend Swiss francs?



I saw someone posted the petition to succeed in the news feed about a week ago and i sign it as well. i figured it might be a good read for some of you. What is your opinion on the matter


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"The two enemies of the people are criminals and the government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first" Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAdmon420
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: justinpierceec]
    #17247287 - 11/19/12 05:51 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Fuck Texas and Texans, I'm moving to colorado, the feds will be too busy fighting the new confederacy to bust potheads


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Registered: 09/19/09
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Admon420] * 2
    #17248410 - 11/19/12 09:08 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

My thought about people who want to succeed because of this election; fuck off ignorant clown.

They are the same people screaming about patriotism, how their America is decaying, so the answer to this is to perform the most unpatriotic, and most antithetical idea to anything concerning being proud of being a citizen, that they could possibly do, say, or think. In Texas they are so patriotic about America...but America is a mix of all sorts of creeds and colors, and since the country does not conform to their pissing and moaning, they think they can just peace out?! wtf!? So patriotic that they are LEAVING? They don't even know what they want they are so stupid :facepalm::suicide:

Fucking idiots. If you REALLY hate this country, being a citizen in it, you can go somewhere else :shrug:. The idea that the US government would LET a state succeed, is ludicrous. The last time it happened it started a little war, ya know, only the most bloody conflict to ever take place on US soil. O yea, but these uber conservative pricks cannot move ANYWHERE; they hate western "liberal" Europe, communist China, soviet Russia, Canada, Mexico...now they hate the states too! Where can they go? hmm...

to hell


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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OfflineWayne420303
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Admon420]
    #17248750 - 11/19/12 09:55 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Colorado is one of the states that wants to secede as well .


--------------------


The Psychonaut


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Offlinekman980
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Wayne420303]
    #17249759 - 11/20/12 12:30 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Texas have a balanced budget? If they got subsidies they're only getting the money they sweated for back. The idea that the government is doing you a favor by returning your money is ridiculous.


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OfflineIllyabo
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Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: kman980]
    #17250322 - 11/20/12 02:37 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Right why let them inflate the fuck out of everything and keep printing up money, we defiantly have no services and state laws from state to state suck up tax money.


--------------------
Education and Recovery Based Sentencing
http://www.petitiononline.com/LERA/petition.html
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www.viennadeclaration.com
Penitentiary can be traded for wit and creativity.


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: kman980]
    #17250905 - 11/20/12 08:26 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

kman980 said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Texas have a balanced budget? If they got subsidies they're only getting the money they sweated for back. The idea that the government is doing you a favor by returning your money is ridiculous.



Having a balanced budget is unrelated to government subsidies.  Texas gets money from the government for all kinds of things...apparently they get more than they give.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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OfflineRabid Jelly Bean
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Registered: 01/26/10
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #17251178 - 11/20/12 10:36 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

kman980 said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Texas have a balanced budget? If they got subsidies they're only getting the money they sweated for back. The idea that the government is doing you a favor by returning your money is ridiculous.



Having a balanced budget is unrelated to government subsidies.  Texas gets money from the government for all kinds of things...apparently they get more than they give.



There's no state income tax currently and if Texas was it's own country, they would have federal income tax money going to them.


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Rabid Jelly Bean]
    #17251211 - 11/20/12 10:43 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

That would have to pay for an army to somehow defeat the US army.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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OfflineShroomacabra
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Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 804
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #17251336 - 11/20/12 11:27 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

kman980 said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Texas have a balanced budget? If they got subsidies they're only getting the money they sweated for back. The idea that the government is doing you a favor by returning your money is ridiculous.



Having a balanced budget is unrelated to government subsidies.  Texas gets money from the government for all kinds of things...apparently they get more than they give.



You are assuming Texas does because other states do. Show proof or you are lying. Texas gets very little in the way of federal subsidies. Companies and organizations that do business in Texas may get some federal help, but Texas as a state is pretty self reliant. If I had to say anything nice about Dick Perry at all, is that he has refused funds from the feds many, many times. I think the only time Texas generally ever accepts federal money is for disasters like hurricanes.


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InvisibleLongStrangeTrip
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 5,382
Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Shroomacabra]
    #17251423 - 11/20/12 11:53 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Shroomababra
Quote:

Companies and organizations that do business in Texas may get some federal help, but Texas as a state is pretty self reliant. If I had to say anything nice about Dick Perry at all, is that he has refused funds from the feds many, many times. I think the only time Texas generally ever accepts federal money is for disasters like hurricanes.





:lmafo:

Texas, Run by Secessionist Guv, Has Received More Federal Disaster Relief Than Any State

6.2   Federal Spending on Aid and the Shape of State Bureaucracies

Quote:

In fiscal year 2004 a little over one-third (35 percent) of Texas state revenues came from the federal government for a total of $21.9 billion. Given the size of these federal funds and the fact that they are distributed by specific federal agencies for use in particular areas, there can be no doubt that they shape what the Texas bureaucracy does and its overall structure.




Texas Gov. Rick Perry laments lack of federal aid for wildfires

Quote:

"You see hundreds of thousands of acres of Texas burning and you know that there will soon be emergency declarations, and we did that now a couple of weeks ago, but still no response from this administration," he told local news radio station WOAI in an interview.

Perry requested a federal declaration for emergency in Texas on April 16 after destruction from wildfires reached 252 counties in the state. An emergency declaration from the president would clear the path for federal aid to Texas.







Yea, you don't need the feds, you will be fine on your own.

Perry cannot ask for ENOUGH Federal dollars, on top of the huge amount Texas takes annually minus disaster relief. See, ignorance is bliss!

:lolocaust:


--------------------
Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~

"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~  (Grateful Dead)

"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony

"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero



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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Shroomacabra]
    #17251525 - 11/20/12 12:16 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomacabra said:
Show proof or you are lying.



Lol...You are a man of extremes...

No, i will not show proof, because as the article clearly points out, current data doesn't exist...and that's why i prefaced my guess with the word "apparently."

Now go cry about what a liar I am.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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OfflineStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #17253377 - 11/20/12 05:53 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

If the feds didn't stick their nose into every aspect of our business from telling us what drugs we can use to drones in the sky, people would not be so quick to secede. The blasted commerce clause apparently can be stretched to include anything, any damn thing at all. Plus they ignore the constitution whenever it pleases them. Where does it say a president can conduct a war without authorization from congress? He does it all the time. Supposed to get a warrant before reading our emails or mail but they have a huge data center just for saving all our emails to use against us.

Lets secede and form our own govt from the ground up. No electoral college, no unlimited corporate funding, clean up the whole shebang.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #17253389 - 11/20/12 05:55 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

That's not going to happen, of course.  A state doesn't have the option of seceding.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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OfflineStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #17253547 - 11/20/12 06:22 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

> A state doesn't have the option of seceding.

How quickly we forget


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #17253560 - 11/20/12 06:25 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

They failed before and there's every indication that they would fail again.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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OfflineStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #17253678 - 11/20/12 06:48 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

But they did secede whether or not they won the war. After the war they were forced back into the union.

What i'd like to see is a new union with a constitution that forbids unauthorized foreign wars and interventions, forbids spying on citizens, forbids assassinations, forbids extrajudicial incarceration or other acts. Direct election of president, lower taxes with a simplified code, forbid "campaign contributions" aka bribes, and many other goodies. The rest of the country may one by one join it. I can see obama campaigning in the last remaining state, probably ny, saying "please stay in the union so i can be president" Or maybe cali, mass, ny and one or two others will stay in?

What should we call our new country? United stoners of america? Don't tread on me? Freeman's country?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #17253761 - 11/20/12 07:01 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

No...they didn't secede.  See Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869)

They tried to secede...They thought they seceded...They never did.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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OfflineStonehenge
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Enlil]
    #17254107 - 11/20/12 07:58 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Regardless of what the country they left had to say about it, they did indeed leave and form their own country. Ignore that if you wish but it is a fact none the less. You can call the confederacy illegal but it was a govt and exercised the powers thereof. Quibbling about terms does not change any of that. Or do you deny the civil war took place?

Who would like to see a new country built out of the remains of this one? One with freedom to use, sell or grow any drug you wish long as you are over 18. A country in which big bankers fear the little guy instead of the other way around. In which congressmen and senators tread lightly because a recall election can be easily organized. The rest of the world would not have to fear our meddling because we would treat all with respect. We would pay as we go and only finance major infrastructure, never to build up an over powerful war machine. Taxes would start at zero and go up to 10% on 50k or more, 20% on 250k or more.

Instead of throwing money down a rat hole to pursue the wod, we would grow and export pot, coke, and shrooms, among other things.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


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InvisibleEnlil
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Re: What seceding from the U.S. will cost you? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #17254128 - 11/20/12 08:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

If they seceded, it would have just been a war...not a civil war.


--------------------
Fuck the Amish

Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"


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