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Thadeous said:
Indeed.  Will you share with us the details of your experiment?  (spawn recipe, strain, methods, and all that goodness.

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Gobblin said:
For colonization I would keep it in the dark so you dont have premature pinning. I keep mine in a bag until it's time to fruit.

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This is old information.
Mycelium benefits from light at all stages of growth.
Ambient light will not cause premature pinning.
I keep all my jars, tubs, etc. in ambient 12/12 lighting.

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TranscendingLife said:
Use a gallon of water & it doesn't have to be distilled. Tap water is actually better.
Depends on what type of verm you're using. If Fine verm, 3 quarts, medium 2.5 & coarse 2.
Let the bucket sit for 45-60 minutes. I let mine sit for the full hour.
I recommend, at the largest, 2" holes for monotubs. Also, you want 2 holes as high as possible on the ends of the monotubs.
Just dump your entire bucket in your tub then the spawn then mix it all up really well.
Make sure to tape up the holes for colonization & keep the tub in ambient lighting for colonization.

GL, I like the idea. Hope it works out.

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Gobblin said:
About how many quarts of spawn are in each bag?

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Gobblin said:
Cool man, I keep mine in the dark with no problems, so it looks like each way is effective!

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TranscendingLife said:
As long as your city water isn't super bad, you can use it for all parts of mycology.
The only thing I used distilled water for anymore is MS syringes for long term storage.

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Gobblin said:
Cool man, I keep mine in the dark with no problems, so it looks like each way is effective!

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Mushrooms have a circadian rhythm just like animals.

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SleeveOfWizard said:
Chlorine evaporates out of water pretty quickly if youre worried about it. A full gallon of standard city water in my surrounding area will be chlorine free if let sitting in the open for about 10hrs.
Heat greatly increases its evaporation speed as well.

But in general I wouldnt worry about it. Unless it smells VERY strongly of chlorine, like a public pool, it should be safe for any stage of a cubensis grow. Some species are more delicate, but even they can withstand some.
So filtered tap water should be all good..

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Thadeous said:
Sounds like this will be a good experiment!  Shame it's multi-spore though, as they can be unpredictable.  Look forward to the process.  Best of luck!

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SleeveOfWizard said:
Chlorine evaporates out of water pretty quickly if youre worried about it. A full gallon of standard city water in my surrounding area will be chlorine free if let sitting in the open for about 10hrs.
Heat greatly increases its evaporation speed as well.

But in general I wouldnt worry about it. Unless it smells VERY strongly of chlorine, like a public pool, it should be safe for any stage of a cubensis grow. Some species are more delicate, but even they can withstand some.
So filtered tap water should be all good..

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weiliiinmyyard said:
Thats really interesting.. where did you learn that? If this is true I will start keeping a tub of water going with a bubbler for my water changes on my fishtank and stop buying dechlorination chems.
I was going to buy some RO water for my tub.

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SleeveOfWizard said:
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in this little endeavor.

Seems more reasonable than adding tryptamines, and hopefully the results prove better as well..

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SleeveOfWizard said:

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weiliiinmyyard said:
Thats really interesting.. where did you learn that? If this is true I will start keeping a tub of water going with a bubbler for my water changes on my fishtank and stop buying dechlorination chems.
I was going to buy some RO water for my tub.

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My dad works at the dept of drinking water, so I know my local area waters levels of all their chems.
I also used to work at a private pool for a few summers. I had to add chlorine and pH additives 2 times a day, and I did it on the heavy side too..


I used to put an air bubbler in my water back when I was growing weed too, trying to aerate it and remove chlorine.
But I was lucky enough back then to be able to borrow testing kits from the pool, so I could be sure there was no Cl.
But you can buy those kits, maybe even walmart or home depot would have them..

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magnifier661 said:

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SleeveOfWizard said:
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in this little endeavor.

Seems more reasonable than adding tryptamines, and hopefully the results prove better as well..

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Well technically Humic and Fulvic acids are great because of their library of elements bound to it.  It is basically fossilized carbon life; which is clean and easily available for life to use.

It has a 1:1 hydrogen-to-carbon ratio and has benzene rings in it.

I mean look at the available chemicals available!
Carbon (187), Hydrogen (186) Oxygen (89) Nitrogen (9) Sulfur (1).  It's got everything you need for the make-up of new life!

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Looks like somebody paid attention in science class... Props. I really am excited to see how this works with P.cubensis. super duper excited...

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TrippinArnold said:

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magnifier661 said:

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SleeveOfWizard said:
Yeah, I'm definitely interested in this little endeavor.

Seems more reasonable than adding tryptamines, and hopefully the results prove better as well..

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Well technically Humic and Fulvic acids are great because of their library of elements bound to it.  It is basically fossilized carbon life; which is clean and easily available for life to use.

It has a 1:1 hydrogen-to-carbon ratio and has benzene rings in it.

I mean look at the available chemicals available!
Carbon (187), Hydrogen (186) Oxygen (89) Nitrogen (9) Sulfur (1).  It's got everything you need for the make-up of new life!

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Looks like somebody paid attention in science class... Props. I really am excited to see how this works with P.cubensis. super duper excited...

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puffpuff23 said:
Where could I obtain this? I would love to try this.

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Look around man.  I would give you my work's product, but I would rather remain anonymous. 

The key is to find good humics and fulvics.  It sound be of very fine powder and the price is usually 9-20 per lbs.  If there is anything out there less than that, then it's a terrible product.

I just jumped online and found one pretty easy.  looking at the photo; this looks of high quality.

http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=3030



No wonder poo works so well!

"KIS SP-90 Soluble Humate Powder 1 lb [Item # KIS-SP-90]

$12.50 / each
Estimate Shipping
· Match Price


$12.50 Quantity:



Click to enlarge
TeraVita Humic Acids

SP-90

Humic acids are primarily found in manure, peat, lignite coal, and leonardite. Leonardite is a highly oxidized form of organic matter and the source for our humic acids. Humic acids work great as a food substrate and food for beneficial microorganisms in your compost tea. Humic acids have been shown to increase seed germination rates and percentages, assist in breaking up compacted soils and clay, assist in transferring micro-nutrients from the soil to the plant, and enhance water retention. If you are having disease problems or wish to increase the fungal component in your tea, we highly recommend adding humic acids. Only 1 Tablespoon of SP-85 or SP-90 is sufficient in our 5 gallon brewer. Please call for amounts in our larger brewers. Humic acids can also be applied in a separate application as a soil amendment. Go to www.teravita.com for more information."

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Mush 4 Brains said:
Old info but still accurate IMHO.  Ambient light causes premature pinning every time in my jars and tubs.

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Thadeous said:

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Mush 4 Brains said:
Old info but still accurate IMHO.  Ambient light causes premature pinning every time in my jars and tubs.

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And how do you know it is the light that cause the premature pinning? hmph.

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Penis Envy said:
Goodluck!  In for results

Is this safe though?

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Veil said:
Thank you for doing this experiment and sharing it with us.

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Study: Increase Yield by 300%

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RogerRabbit said:

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Study: Increase Yield by 300%

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I'm not buying into this. 

Increase by 300% over what?  What is their baseline for the 300% increase?  My oyster substrates could not possibly have even a 100% increase in yield because there would not be physical room on the substrate blocks for them to form.  I just wonder what they were doing wrong to get such poor results on their baseline.
RR

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Mush 4 Brains said:
Ive had fully colonized jars sit in a dark closet for months with no pin formation.  I leave it on my desk with only a little ambient light from the window and a few days later i have pins.  I have a jar i did a g2g with a few days ago, I only used half of the quart.  I let it sit on my desk instead of in the darkness of my closet, and guess what?  A few days later, Pins!

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Indeed. While I don't doubt the validity of your claim, their may be other factors at work.  Mayhaps the indirect light raised the air temperature in the jars, causing it to rise, thus inducing FAE.  Who knows.  I just think that your experience, though not the ONLY experience like it, is the exception rather than the rule. 

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magnifier661 said:
My question is:  "do you use manure as a sub?". If so there is supposed to be quite a bit of humic already present.  That could be one reason why your normal grow is better?  I seriously don't know.

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magnifier661 said:
That's why I'm using coir since it has zero nutrients in it.  I'm setting up a control and test group.  Hopefully the results will be awesome!

I'm probably not going to start this until this weekend.  I am building my grow room and want to showcase it.

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TranscendingLife said:
Coir has nutrients, so does verm.

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Thadeous said:

Nevertheless, excited for the weekend.  They will be spawned to bulk at that point, correct?

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TranscendingLife said:
Coir has nutrients, so does verm.

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magnifier661 said:

My question is:  "do you use manure as a sub?". If so there is supposed to be quite a bit of humic already present.  That could be one reason why your normal grow is better?  I seriously don't know.

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RogerRabbit said:

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magnifier661 said:

My question is:  "do you use manure as a sub?". If so there is supposed to be quite a bit of humic already present.  That could be one reason why your normal grow is better?  I seriously don't know.

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Of course.  My standard oyster recipe is 1/3 sawdust, 1/3 straw, and 1/3 composted horse manure. pH balanced with wood ashes, and gypsum added for minerals.
RR

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magnifier661 said:

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TranscendingLife said:
Coir has nutrients, so does verm.

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My apologies. 

http://www.agrococo.com/Bethke/NUTRIENT_ANALYSIS_OF_AGROCOIR.pdf

I already knew Verm had nutrients though.

I looked it up and regular coco coir has in dry weight: 0.51% N, 0.08% P, 1.87% k, 0.15% Ca, 0.10% Mg, 0.07% S.

It also has in PPM 237 Fe, 9.79 Mn, 18.12 B, 15.99% Cu, and 9.03 Zn

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RogerRabbit said:

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magnifier661 said:

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TranscendingLife said:
Coir has nutrients, so does verm.

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My apologies. 

http://www.agrococo.com/Bethke/NUTRIENT_ANALYSIS_OF_AGROCOIR.pdf

I already knew Verm had nutrients though.

I looked it up and regular coco coir has in dry weight: 0.51% N, 0.08% P, 1.87% k, 0.15% Ca, 0.10% Mg, 0.07% S.

It also has in PPM 237 Fe, 9.79 Mn, 18.12 B, 15.99% Cu, and 9.03 Zn

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NPK is irrelevant for growing mushrooms.  Mycelium breaks down substrates at the cellular level, and coir is an organic substrate.
RR

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deformedreality said:
Cant forget to mention that worm castings is a source of humic acid as well.. amongst other good things. Sounds like there is already a good majority that are one way or another adding humic acid to their mix anyways.

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sgfcchamber said:
A study done in 1984 yielded similar results:
http://agris.fao.org/openagris/search.do?recordID=TH9121541

"Effect of humic acid on yields of oyster mushroom was studied by mixing saw dust with humic acid at the concentration of 0, 5, 10, 15 and 20 ml/water 1 litr. 10 ml humic acid gave the maximum yield of 153.65 gm. per bag while that of the control was 115.09 gm per bag. However, there was no difference in terms of total number of fruiting bodies per bag. As for 15 ml humic acid, it was found to give the lowest yield (100.89 gm per bag)."

My anecdotal evidence supports the claim that humic acid results in better yields.  My grows are done using coir, verm, gypsum & then a large amount (50% of the total substrate volume) of homemade compost (made from straw, horse manure & a variety of produce).  Compost naturally contains large amounts of humic acid.

Note what I bolded in the quote above, that there is no difference in the number of fruiting bodies, but yet yields are increased.  Well, my grow that are done using the compost yield mushrooms that are as dense as number 2 pencils.  When dried, they are actually difficult to snap (seriously), and when they do snap, it's with the sound of a snapping branch.

In comparison, my old grows that were coir/verm or coir/verm/gypsum/coffee grounds, I would occasionally get dense mushrooms, but more often than not, they were hollow stipes.

Now that my substrates are largely composed of the homemade compost, I do occasionally get a hollow stiped mushroom, but more often than not it's the other way around.

My yields have definitely increased, but the number of mushrooms I'm getting has not.  In fact, in some cases, the number of mushrooms & even the size of them is decreased, but each individual fruit when dried weighs substantially more.

Again, this is only anecdotal evidence, but I highly doubt that their highly controlled scientific experiment was so flawed that you can immediately discount the experiment.

Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned something along the lines of "I wonder what they did to have such low yields in the first place".  Well, that's the magic of the scientific method.  It doesn't matter how poor their control group was in terms of maximizing yield.  Since it was a control group, all other groups were given the exact same conditions, with the exception of the addition of varying amounts of humic acid.  That means that gains are gains, regardless.  It's not like they put the control group in crappy growing conditions, then put the others in better conditions & added the humic acid, which would obviously negate their results entirely.

And to RR:  You said that there is no possible way that you could even fit more mushrooms on your substrate blocks, and therefore could probably not see any way to increase yield.  Well, if you look at their chart, you'll notice that the ash & moisture content percentage remained nearly unchanged across the board, and with slight fluctuations in protein.  However, where the largest increase is in fiber content (it over doubled in comparison to the control group).  The fiber is what constitutes the majority of the mass of the mushroom.

If you read the document, they did not determine the fiber content for every mushroom that grew, but rather on a "representative sample".  That means that the mushrooms that grew were denser than those without the addition of humic acid, not that there were more of them.

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magnifier661 said:
I fucking love the substrate calculator you have in your signature!  That is awesome!!!! Thanks for sharing that and I love your explaination on the results as well!

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Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate it

I worked pretty hard on that so I really enjoy hearing nice things about it & that it's helping other people.

Also, I truly can't wait to see your results from this experiment.  Please follow through with it & post your results

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sgfcchamber said:

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magnifier661 said:
I fucking love the substrate calculator you have in your signature!  That is awesome!!!! Thanks for sharing that and I love your explaination on the results as well!

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Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate it

I worked pretty hard on that so I really enjoy hearing nice things about it & that it's helping other people.

Also, I truly can't wait to see your results from this experiment.  Please follow through with it & post your results

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