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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,217
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims  [Re: bloodsheen]
#16747940 - 08/28/12 02:41 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Honestly idk what more you people want in a study. If you want a study to tell you weed is all coolio and magical then fine, look for that study. But this sounds pretty legit to me.
Exactly. You won't find a more pro-cannabis person than me, but truth is truth, even when it works against me.
This study is not one of the government funded shills from the past. It's done by independent researches who, as far as I can tell, used good methodology, accounted for all the variables possible, and published the results as revealed.
Kids' brains are still developing into the early 20s. There are unimaginably complex interrelated sets of biochemical reactions happening as the brain develops and matures. It's not the least bit of a stretch to think that any subtle derangement of that chemistry could lead to faults in the brain's development and THC is very definitely a chemical thrown into the mix.
It's funny that typical human behavior is everywhere. When a republican reads an anti-democrat study, he pounces. When it's an anti-republican study, he pooh poohs it even if it's done with the same rigor. And here in this forum, every pro-cannabis study is held up as a shining example of outstanding research, but any similarly-valid study showing negative results is criticized on the flimsiest of grounds.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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 mushiefeet
Iron Lung420
Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 369
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Diploid] 1
#16748051 - 08/28/12 03:04 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Soooo wait I started at 18? I'm safe but if I did it at 17 or my last month of being 17 Lols I would lower my IQ? Damn what bull shit makes me 
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,217
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: mushiefeet] 2
#16748204 - 08/28/12 03:33 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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That post is a perfect example of the cognitive deficit and drop in IQ that results. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 4,163
Last seen: 12 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Diploid]
#16748208 - 08/28/12 03:34 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
That post is a perfect example of the drop in IQ that results.
I think he typed like that ironically.
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Your god is dead, and i killed him.
The moment you refuse the human rights for just a few, what happens when that view includes you?-Chuck D.
The X I got won't find you treasure, it'll leave you rollin so hard you leave in a stretcher-Chris Webby
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer
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Posts: 1,791
Last seen: 30 days, 5 hours
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: mushiefeet]
#16748233 - 08/28/12 03:39 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Here's the study:
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/08/22/1206820109
Is there anyone who can get past the pay wall that would copypasta the study?
Some qualms I have: it doesn't appear they controlled for alcohol & other drug use (which are going to be correlated with marijuana use, and even more strongly correlated with regards to users who started out as adolescents), there don't appear to be any controls for mental illness (which is also going to correlated with marijuana use), and it seems odd that cannabis damage would be largely reversible for post-adolescent users but not for those who started while in their teens. The brain does most of its developing before adulthood, but it continually develops and some significant changes occur even in your 20's - it seems really weird that 18 would be some magic age where weed doesn't cause permanent brain damage. It would be nice to see the actual results instead of having to read the tea leaves in the science-illiterate media...
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,217
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#16748246 - 08/28/12 03:41 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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it doesn't appear they controlled for alcohol & other drug use
I read a separate news story from BBC that says they did control for confounding influences like other drugs, dropping out of school, home environment and so one. I'll see if I can find it again and post a link.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,217
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: King Klick]
#16748281 - 08/28/12 03:48 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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I think he typed like that ironically.
It's not the typing style I'm critiquing. It's the complete misunderstanding of what the study (and I) are saying. It looks to me like a reading comprehension defect in the guise of sarcasm.
What's sad (and supportive of the study's conclusions) is that he doesn't even realize his mistake.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 4,163
Last seen: 12 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Diploid]
#16748287 - 08/28/12 03:49 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
I think he typed like that ironically.
It's not the typing style I'm critiquing. It's the complete misunderstanding of what the study (and I) are saying. It looks to me like a reading comprehension defect in the guise of sarcasm.
What's sad (and supportive of the study's conclusions) is that he doesn't even realize his mistake.
Eh. If he doesn't notice something is wrong, is anything really wrong?
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Your god is dead, and i killed him.
The moment you refuse the human rights for just a few, what happens when that view includes you?-Chuck D.
The X I got won't find you treasure, it'll leave you rollin so hard you leave in a stretcher-Chris Webby
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,217
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: King Klick]
#16748328 - 08/28/12 03:59 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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The point is that he may not notice anything wrong, but it may nevertheless have a negative impact on his life long-term.
If I could have had a less depressing life without drugs as a kid, but I'm not aware of this, it doesn't change the fact that I had a depressing life that could have been happy if I'd known the effects when I made the decision to use drugs as a kid.
By ignoring this study, you ignore the possibilities. You ignore the Truth. That is the definition of a closed mind.
If you decide to take drugs as a kid, that's your call. I would not get in anyone's way. A kid who's passed puberty is an adult in my eyes in so far as decisions that affect them. And I believe adults have a right to make stupid decisions.
That said, I think any adult who summarily dismisses evidence when it goes against their desires and embraces evidence only when it aligns with their desires is a moron.
But again, adults have a right to be morons. Your mileage may vary. Have at it.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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King Klick
That Guy Everyone Knows
Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 4,163
Last seen: 12 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Diploid]
#16748343 - 08/28/12 04:02 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
The point is that he may not notice anything wrong, but it may nevertheless have a negative impact on his life long-term.
If I could have had a less depressing life without drugs as a kid, but I'm not aware of this, it doesn't change the fact that I had a depressing life that could have been happy if I'd known the effects when I made the decision to use drugs as a kid.
By ignoring this study, you ignore the possibilities. You ignore the Truth. That is the definition of a closed mind.
If you decide to take drugs as a kid, that's your call. I would not get in anyone's way. A kid who's passed puberty is an adult in my eyes in so far as decisions that affect them. And I believe adults have a right to make stupid decisions.
That said, I think any adult who summarily dismisses evidence when it goes against their desires and embraces evidence only when it aligns with their desires is a moron.
But again, adults have a right to be morons. Your mileage may vary. Have at it.
I have nothing against these studies. I think theres more to it, but still, 5 years, it will be obsolete. Kids shouldn't smoke weed, eh...yah, the can. Should they smoke a lot, probably not. If i could go back to being 12 i would do it all over again.
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Your god is dead, and i killed him.
The moment you refuse the human rights for just a few, what happens when that view includes you?-Chuck D.
The X I got won't find you treasure, it'll leave you rollin so hard you leave in a stretcher-Chris Webby
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Spiderbaby
?
Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 1,221
Loc: Ireland 
Last seen: 3 days, 13 hours
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: aj123]
#16748522 - 08/28/12 04:37 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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I got the paper, it's here for anyone interested in the research or for any dumbass burnouts who think they know better than the scientists who publish in a top tier journal, enjoy 
edit, fixed link
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Theres a time and a place for everything and its called college,
Edited by Spiderbaby (08/29/12 06:20 PM)
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Humility
Working on it
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,696
Last seen: 30 days, 9 hours
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Spiderbaby]
#16749304 - 08/28/12 06:39 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Hasn't the UK also released a bunch of shit about how cannabis is super-harmful just in general? Like how it's more carcinogenic (lol how can something that's never produced cancer in an individual be "carcinogenic) than tobacco and how it leads to physical ailments.
I'd say people that smoke cannabis are less likely to give a shit about things like IQ scores, or taking government tests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Richard_Branson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates *not confirmed, strongly hinted at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Steltzner
Cannabis has nothing to do with academic proficiency.
IQ tests do not test mental faculty, cleverness, ability to improvise, etc. etc with any degree of accuracy. They test proficiency in answering very specific questions in very specific realms of life. IQ tests have value, but very little. They are FAR from being tests that measure intelligence, or survival ability which is what's being posited here.
This test was biased from the get go, and what were the sample groups again?
To even begin to make such assertions you'd need to provide reams of evidence. Given the fact that many of the world's most prominent academics drink a substance that's a known toxicant, quite regularly, I'll go ahead and call this what it is:
Bullshit.
Btw, my IQ is around 130. Most people who are in Mensa will tell you that IQ tests are full of shit and find myriad ways to challenge themselves and occupy their time here. Mathematics and Reading Comprehension only take you so far.
I'm in the mood for some Tilapia and rice, though I'm short on the lemons. How about ya'll?
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SpiralHaze
Astral Voyager
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Posts: 193
Loc: Material Plane
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Humility]
#16749326 - 08/28/12 06:46 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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This study shows nothing to prove that cannabis alone made those people lose their level of intelligence. They realized some of the social educational norms were not worth their effort. It did not prove that it altered the chemistry of their brain to make them slightly less smart. A study of only 1000 people is quite small also. Cannabis is still basically harmless.
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Humility
Working on it
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Posts: 6,696
Last seen: 30 days, 9 hours
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: SpiralHaze]
#16749347 - 08/28/12 06:51 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Such a study is impossible to perform. You'd need to do something akin to 7 up (TV series) in order to even have half of a shot at getting some relevant data.
The twins thought problem makes this entire question impossible to answer. The number of factors that affect the way people develop is beyond the ability of humans to quantify and postulate on at this moment.
You aren't performing science, and LOL at everyone being hard asses talking about how "scientific" this study is and how "stoners" should accept some sort of thought process that cannabis is harmful in some way.
This is just rehashed bullshit for the second decade of the third millennium C.E.
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Amplify
Stranger
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: SpiralHaze]
#16749348 - 08/28/12 06:51 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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"People who boast about their IQ's are losers." - Steven Hawking
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psyconaught
Licker of toads
Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 2,169
Loc: southern oregon
Last seen: 6 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Amplify]
#16749449 - 08/28/12 07:05 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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the fact that people disregard this as complete bull shit is baffling. They did what amounts to 1000 case studies. That is ALOT of data to maintain. Whether you like it or not, they did their homework and came to a reasonable conclusion, any foreign substance can cause damage to the body in excess, especially during a developmental stage.
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Think for yourself, question authority
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,217
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Humility]
#16749539 - 08/28/12 07:18 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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You aren't performing science, and LOL at everyone being hard asses talking about how "scientific" this study is and how "stoners" should accept some sort of thought process that cannabis is harmful in some way.
What's LOL is the hundreds of other threads here through the years where a positive or neutral result from cannabis use was found and everyone jumped up and down and pointed "seeeeee, told ya it was harmless! Neener neener!"
Truth is truth, even when it works against you. Refusing to see this is the definition of a closed mind. This thread reads like a debate with closed-minded creationists who insist there's zero evidence for evolution and accept ONLY studies by fringe biologists who never get published in any peer reviewed journals while ignoring all the sound studies published in top-rank peer reviewed publications.
This thread makes me depressed.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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bloodsheen
ChemChaplin
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Posts: 2,664
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Diploid]
#16749598 - 08/28/12 07:26 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
You aren't performing science, and LOL at everyone being hard asses talking about how "scientific" this study is and how "stoners" should accept some sort of thought process that cannabis is harmful in some way.
What's LOL is the hundreds of other threads here through the years where a positive or neutral result from cannabis use was found and everyone jumped up and down and pointed "seeeeee, told ya it was harmless! Neener neener!"
Truth is truth, even when it works against you. Refusing to see this is the definition of a closed mind. This thread reads like a debate with closed-minded creationists who insist there's zero evidence for evolution and accept ONLY studies by fringe biologists who never get published in any peer reviewed journals while ignoring all the sound studies published in top-rank peer reviewed publications.
This thread makes me depressed.
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A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog
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Oasis182
Stranger
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Diploid]
#16749845 - 08/28/12 07:58 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
You aren't performing science, and LOL at everyone being hard asses talking about how "scientific" this study is and how "stoners" should accept some sort of thought process that cannabis is harmful in some way.
What's LOL is the hundreds of other threads here through the years where a positive or neutral result from cannabis use was found and everyone jumped up and down and pointed "seeeeee, told ya it was harmless! Neener neener!"
Truth is truth, even when it works against you. Refusing to see this is the definition of a closed mind. This thread reads like a debate with closed-minded creationists who insist there's zero evidence for evolution and accept ONLY studies by fringe biologists who never get published in any peer reviewed journals while ignoring all the sound studies published in top-rank peer reviewed publications.
This thread makes me depressed.
Although I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, the way you're saying it really makes me want to slap you.
I just thought you should know. <3
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Its all gone to shit.
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Humility
Working on it
Registered: 10/07/08
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Re: Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims [Re: Oasis182]
#16749935 - 08/28/12 08:09 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Cannabis is harmless.
I'm never surprised when opiate addicts and abusers talk shit about drugs or support the drug war. The guilt and self-disparagement that comes out of that shit is despicable.
Plenty of world-reknown scientists talked shit about how "negroids" were different from "Caucasiods" and how there are inherent differences in race.
Lots of bullshit gets refuted as the years go by and politics fades from science.
Cannabis = zero deaths throughout history = safer than water.
IQ tests, once again, test very specific things and are very specifically oriented towards certain "types" of knowing.
IQ tests are useless in terms of testing "proficiency" in, well anything.
This test is useless insofar as establishing any sort of causation between cannabis and intellect deficiency, and that's what it's positing, despite the language that it uses.
It's not the first time a complete bullshit study regarding cannabis has come out of the UK. They have a habit of this shit.
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