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 GrandfatheredInn
Greenhorn and thumb
Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 187
Loc: Bible belt
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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 Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit 
#16713273 - 08/17/12 07:59 AM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Still very new at this, doing my first mono and double tubs. First, off, do you case or not case with these? Some of the teks I have read like the Double Tub ( http://www.shroomery.org/9107/Double-Tub-Pictorial ) say to case, then others like ohmatic's monotub ( http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8231041#8231041 ) skip casing entirely.
So here is where I'm at now, the first tiny double tub I made used 4 quarts WBS plus 70/30 straw/chickenpoo. Colonized fine completely in closet, following the Double Tub pictorial tek, I removed the top and cased with verm and coir.
This is where first mistake was made, used waaay to much casing, probably about an inch thick. Since then I have read 1/8 in is more suitable amount. Watched for a week out in a room with sunlight and fan circulating air, no noticeable growth. Decided to remove the casing layer believing this to be the problem of no growth because it was too thick.
Pretty sure I killed all the moisture in the tub, because now it looks like I have a huge brick of colonized substrate but no moisture for it to grow. Thinking of dunking it for a few hours and applying a much smaller casing layer. Looking for better or more seasoned suggestions!
This picture makes the tub look wetter than it really is, no moisture at all on the walls of top tub. The substrate is one solid mass, very thick to the touch when I was removing the casing layer.
That was my first tub, since then have done another double tub 70/30 straw/chickenpoo with WBS. Decided not to open this one to case, but did not use a "frosting layer" on it, had not heard about that until I read the ohmatic tek. Waited until the top looked nice and frosty from normal growth and put it in a room with natural sun light and a small fan circulating air. Don't see any pins yet, but it has only been 3 days. How do you make your tubs pin and fruit?
Also, did two ohmatic tubs with a heavy frosting layer after reading this tek, both have colonized fully. Once again, 70/30 straw/chickenpoo and WBS. Not planning on casing either of these, but want to know when and what conditions to fruit these guys. Have one kept in the closet for further growth and one into the room with sunlight and a fan. What should the top layer look like exactly? Just white or very heavy rhizomorphic(sp?) growth?
Pics of the tub and top layer, this is the one in the closet, is this enough growth on the top to fruit?:
Is the room with natural sunlight + floursant + regular bulb room lighting for 12ish hours, 12ish hours dark and a small fan circulating air 24 hrs enough? What exactly is needed to make these guys pin and fruit? Should the fan be left on at all times or alternated on and off?
This is my 1st grow experience with tubs, have only used PF tek or cakes in a perlite chamber before having to mist and fan. Very new to this in general as this is my 3rd time doing this at all, but wanting expand my knowledge with recent, relevant and accurate information. THANKS IF YOU READ ALL OF THIS AND CAN HELP 
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Down the hatch.
Edited by GrandfatheredInn (08/17/12 08:02 AM)
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 Doc_T
Random Dude
 
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado 
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 Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16713632 - 08/17/12 10:00 AM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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The frosting layer was popular for a while, but now we do it the other way around.
Finish your tubs with a thin top layer of unspawned bulk substrate, covering all the exposed grains.
In the future, I mean, don't change these.
That top layer allows the substrate to be 'self-casing', you usually don't need a separate casing layer with Ps cubensis.
I've had really good results using wax paper as a casing layer, as described by RR.
No reason you can't dunk a tub, and if some of the excess casing material floats away, that's fine.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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laserpony
Not a noob; just quiet.
Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Hardiness Zone 7a
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16713722 - 08/17/12 10:26 AM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Is that pine straw? Are you growing P. cubensis or something else?
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GrandfatheredInn
Greenhorn and thumb
Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 187
Loc: Bible belt
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16714160 - 08/17/12 12:39 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Cubensis, and the straw looks brown because I pasteurized it with the manure.
Also, Is the room with natural sunlight + floursant + regular bulb room lighting for 12ish hours, 12ish hours dark and a small fan circulating air 24 hrs enough? What exactly is needed to make these guys pin and fruit? Should the fan be left on at all times or alternated on and off?
Wanting to get these guys to pin and fruit.
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Down the hatch.
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laserpony
Not a noob; just quiet.
Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Hardiness Zone 7a
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16714194 - 08/17/12 12:46 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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The main triggers for fruits are in order of most to least important: exposure to fresh air, an evaporation cycle and lighting. I run my set up in a manner which mimics natural processes. I run a 5600k led lighting from 8am to 8pm and then cut the light off and run a coolmist from 8pm-8am. This is a lot like natural conditions. At night the coolmist brings the temps down a couple degrees and they get a good soaking, then when the light comes on and the coolmist is off, the temps go up a little and evaporation occurs. This has worked well for me. Temps at "night" 70F and humidity between 90-100%, temps during the "day" are 72-75F and humidity from 80-90%. Also worth noting, I am using a "martha" greenhouse.
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laserpony
Not a noob; just quiet.
Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Hardiness Zone 7a
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: laserpony]
#16714204 - 08/17/12 12:48 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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The ohmatic tub looks like it has tons of pins.... whats the problem? 
Also, you'd probably be okay to open them up for a minute to take better pictures. It is very difficult to tell what exactly is going on in there. With all that myc, it is very unlikely you'll contaminate it. In my opinion, contamination is really only a problem during colonization.
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Edited by laserpony (08/17/12 12:53 PM)
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GrandfatheredInn
Greenhorn and thumb
Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 187
Loc: Bible belt
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: laserpony]
#16714251 - 08/17/12 01:03 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Those aren't pins in the picture, they are actually grains of WBS. Did that whole "frosting" layer thing, going to use a thin thin casing layer next time.
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Down the hatch.
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laserpony
Not a noob; just quiet.
Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Hardiness Zone 7a
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16714421 - 08/17/12 01:43 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Oh. Oh my. That doesn't sound good at all. I would try to cover that. I think wax paper would work well here. Just pull some off the roll, crumple it up and flatten it out again. Set it on top the substrate and change it when it looks damp. This will provide great RH for them and will protect those exposed grains from getting contaminated. I'd never heard of this "frosting" sounds like a poor idea, which begs for contamination and failure! I'd say it's too late to grow throwing substrate on there, but definitely try the wax paper. I think it will work out just fine for you.
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GrandfatheredInn
Greenhorn and thumb
Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 187
Loc: Bible belt
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16714917 - 08/17/12 03:44 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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alright popped lids as little as I could and dropped in some crumpled dry wax paper that was sanitized in alcohol. Hoping this initiates pinning
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Down the hatch.
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GrandfatheredInn
Greenhorn and thumb
Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 187
Loc: Bible belt
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16714949 - 08/17/12 03:49 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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another thing I plan on changing for this next tub is taping the holes shut vs. stuffing them with polyfill and wrapping them in a trash bag during colonization
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Down the hatch.
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florida_guy
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 11
Last seen: 8 months, 29 days
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16715059 - 08/17/12 04:14 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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i use wild bird seed with liquid culture then transfer to poo
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laserpony
Not a noob; just quiet.
Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Hardiness Zone 7a
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16715180 - 08/17/12 04:35 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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I believe the most recent consensus is that you do not put them in a trash bag during colonization because this starves it of gas exchange. What do you plan to tape the holes with? Tyvek would be worth a try and it's free if you live in USA and are anywhere near a post office.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: laserpony]
#16715194 - 08/17/12 04:37 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Tyvek isn't suitable in this application. (or many others)
And please don't use post office tyvek for anything other than mailing things, it's a federal crime.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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laserpony
Not a noob; just quiet.
Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 259
Loc: Hardiness Zone 7a
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: Doc_T]
#16715274 - 08/17/12 04:54 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said:
Tyvek isn't suitable in this application. (or many others)
And please don't use post office tyvek for anything other than mailing things, it's a federal crime.
Why wouldn't it be suitable? (I honestly don't know, but it works for jars why not holes?)
Is that really a federal crime or a joke?
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: laserpony]
#16715286 - 08/17/12 04:56 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
laserpony said: Is that really a federal crime or a joke?
It's printed on every single envelope. 
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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GrandfatheredInn
Greenhorn and thumb
Registered: 04/03/11
Posts: 187
Loc: Bible belt
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: Doc_T]
#16715303 - 08/17/12 05:00 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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Don't plan on using tyvek either way. I was planning just to duct tape them up, looking at other threads and this seemed to encourage more knotting and pinning before introducing it to light and Fresh air.
Let me get this straight:
1.) Don't put them in bags during colonization
2.) Do or don't allow FAE through holes of monotub during colonization?
3.) Apply wax paper temporary casing before or after colonization?
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Down the hatch.
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Need some advice, made some mistakes, want to get cakes to fruit [Re: GrandfatheredInn]
#16715366 - 08/17/12 05:09 PM (8 months, 29 days ago) |
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1)I bag, but I guess the current fashion is not to.
2) No FAE. Probably don't even need Gas Exchange for most tubs, there's plenty of air.
3) after colonization, apply when you introduce fruiting conditions.
3a) if you use wax paper take the polyfil out and fruit it with open holes.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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