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Icelander said:
I love the trials that show efficacy with  the drug working 6 out of 10 and the placebo working 4 out of 10. 

Big win for the drug.

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Synchro said:

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Did anyone engage you on the FDA?  I don't recall so.  Keep bitching about the evil pharma companies, its completely irrelevant.

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Yes. In fact it was this appeal to authority

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SSRIs are FAR more effective than placebo in controlled studies. If they weren't, they would not have been approved by FDA.

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A "FACT" that you haven't substantiated.  What the fuck does it matter what the drug companies do with their studies?  In the case of SSRI's, there's plenty of others that show efficacy.

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It appears that you didn't read my entire post if you feel the claims weren't substantiated.

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My colleagues and I obtained some of these hidden data by using the Freedom of Information Act in the US. We analyzed the data and submitted the results for peer review to medical and psychological journals, where they were then published.

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Your post is stupid and I've read the reviews trotted out on this issue- your post contains no data and nothing worthwhile. Rather than whining about a percieved lack of insight, you could answer the question- which despite going on for paragraphs, fails to address.

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And why does it matter what they do w/ their tests? Uh, isn't it only common sense that if results are cherry picked that the findings should be considered flawed/unscientific?  I guess for you logic and common sense aren't one in the same.

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Yes that is reasonable- so what?

You've still not shown how that undermines the efficacy of a whole class of drugs.  Because you won't make a proper argument, I have no idea what the point of contact between these claims and your conclusion is, but all I can imagine is that you somehow think pre-approval studies are all that supports these drugs, which is false.

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Why does the placebo effect need to be understood? Again, this falls under 'common sense.' If test subjects' symptoms improve w/ both the tested chemical and the placebo it only makes sense that the chemical's beneficial effects could have been simply a placebo. I'm not sure how that eludes you.

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That did not answered the question- why does it matter?  You've failed to show how this even has the capacity to influence the testing.

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In my view, the FDA is another example of corporatism

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Holly shit, we agree on something.  We should have clear consumer protection laws regarding disclosure of ingredients, composition, purity, and effects, and leave it to private litigation to enforce.  Unfortunately, the anti-FDA crusaders often claim the problem is the agency doesn't do enough to protect people from themselves, not too much.  By creating vague rules and installing an oligarchy that tells you what you can buy and sell, you create corruption and inefficiency.  It is always thus- as soon as you give some group plenary rulemaking authority and approval processes they start whittling away at the preexisting common law rights of the consumers.  It helps consumers in the same way communism does.

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--corporations dictating policy to meet their own ends. Instead of it being a federal regulatory agency which protects citizens, its function is to turn citizens into customers.

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This is ridiculous.  Its function is to fulfill its congressional mandate.

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There's the FDA, the doctors and the drug companies. Together they're the medical-industrial complex. The FDA, doctors and drug companies all hinder citizens from making informed choices about medications. Sadly, the FDA allows drug companies to test their products' safety on the public instead of having these companies do thorough testing on safety.

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How is that sad?  I thought you wanted to get rid of the FDA?  What are you talking about?

Why should I be probhibited from buying or selling a drug without your approved protocol?

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I doubt you realize this but when one is so consumed w/ logic that it becomes a negative-feedback loop, that itself becomes a fallacy. Not logical, mind you, but a cognitive fallacy (aka blinded by logic).

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Brilliant.  As usual you propose no alternative nor demonstration of its superiority.

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Icelander said:
What exactly are you talking about here and what is your point?  This doesn't support the claims being made here.  That a drug affects a particular patient class in a particular way is irrelevant to whether it works, whether its better than placebo, or whatever.  It seems you continue to conflate the development and product of drugs with the inappropriate methods in which they are sold/ordered to be taken.


Don't get so fucking serious, I decided to go off topic for a laugh.

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