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 g00ru
membrane shift
 
Registered: 08/09/07
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 It's a choice 
#16626367 - 08/01/12 05:09 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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it's all a choice. including survival. but also including realization, freedom...and everything in between...   
personally I like to feel ambitious but that's not even necessary.
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
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Re: It's a choice [Re: g00ru]
#16626374 - 08/01/12 05:15 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Yep.
Condemned to be free.
The worst of the worst is chosen.
I believe even the children born into starving regions choose their fate. Are they not their parents? Their parents chose to have the child.
One being.
We all made the mistake...
If souls are for real then somehow, in some way I don't understand in my current state of consciousness, that soul chose to take that ride.
Either way,
I agree: nothing occurs but choice. We choose for it all to manifest in front of our eyes.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
"There never was any forgetfulness for Self."
-Ramana Maharshi
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 80,493
Loc: underbelly
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choice is an illusion
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,022
Loc: 
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prooven to be true 
the illusion of having some personal power over their life makes some people feel good, it feels empowering
i feel better the less i have the idea im in control
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g00ru
membrane shift
Registered: 08/09/07
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but what about those moments when there's no option but to go with your heart for better or for worse? That choice isn't an illusion, that's a completely spontaneous and original movement of consciousness. Which of course is what I am.
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cbub
it
Registered: 10/17/10
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Quote:
Icelander said:
choice is an illusion
 
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Rool Kat
Stranger
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Re: It's a choice [Re: cbub]
#16629017 - 08/01/12 05:30 PM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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The OP is a well-stated precis of the basic spiritual philosophy of all of the -ism's that spring from the mother-lode of Indian spirituality; hinduism, buddhism and the others.
It's a basic statement of the eastern world view, and if one understands it, explains why they do not embrace the western "Oh, look at the poor suffering wretches, let's do something for them."
This is reflected in the Bardo Thodol, when the dying self chooses its next incarnation, based upon the accumulated Karmic load. The incarnation chosen is picked to give the greatest opportunity in the next incarnation to work off as much of that negative karma as possible. Ergo, pity is not the appropriate response, contrary to western expectations,culture and customs.
Apologies to anyone who already knows that, I don't mean to be taking down to anyone.
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: It's a choice [Re: Rool Kat]
#16629602 - 08/01/12 07:42 PM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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indeed, and i find such an perspective logical with or without a multiple lives outlook
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circastes
Being too serious
Registered: 01/14/10
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Re: It's a choice [Re: g00ru]
#16629680 - 08/01/12 08:00 PM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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Well it's a matter of context in this thread really.
I like to say I have choice such that I am free from the negative.
Others in the thread like to say they don't have choice so that they are one with the positive.
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"Your salvation may lie in a rational apprehension of the present moment."
-Terence McKenna
"There never was any forgetfulness for Self."
-Ramana Maharshi
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,764
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Re: It's a choice [Re: Rool Kat]
#16629701 - 08/01/12 08:04 PM (10 months, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rool Kat said:
It's a basic statement of the eastern world view, and if one understands it, explains why they do not embrace the western "Oh, look at the poor suffering wretches, let's do something for them."
That's a viewpoint held by the cultures but rarely the spiritual leaders. The Dalai Lama, for one, teaches against that mentality. I'd be hard-pressed to see a Jainist preaching that either.
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g00ru
membrane shift
Registered: 08/09/07
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for me its like, I want to be positive and free, and I want to chase my dreams, which kind of takes trying again and again at the same thing, which makes me feel very much like I'm making a choice and not that the choice is being made fore me. and this all occurs with the cooperation of consciousness, not in spite of it.
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: It's a choice [Re: Vore]
#16639481 - 08/03/12 01:59 PM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Vore said:
Quote:
Rool Kat said:
It's a basic statement of the eastern world view, and if one understands it, explains why they do not embrace the western "Oh, look at the poor suffering wretches, let's do something for them."
That's a viewpoint held by the cultures but rarely the spiritual leaders. The Dalai Lama, for one, teaches against that mentality. I'd be hard-pressed to see a Jainist preaching that either.
The DL is very much a political leader, he can't just go around saying things like that
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,764
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Re: It's a choice [Re: g00ru]
#16641316 - 08/03/12 09:24 PM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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Are you suggesting what he believes isn't what he preaches?
Most speakers I've heard talking about karma describe the situation as "Okay, maybe it was their karma to put them there, but perhaps a karmic tale for a misdeed has expired, and now it's time to help them."
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g00ru
membrane shift
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Re: It's a choice [Re: Vore]
#16642635 - 08/04/12 02:10 AM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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No, just that he has other things that he deals with
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,764
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Re: It's a choice [Re: g00ru]
#16642858 - 08/04/12 03:06 AM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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 Most of the books I've read on Buddhism have said the same thing.
The Dalai Lama has given a to lying for the common good though.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,493
Loc: underbelly
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Re: It's a choice [Re: Vore]
#16643035 - 08/04/12 04:12 AM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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I think I remember something similar. I think he believes he's not a reincarnation of some buddha type but also believes his people in exile need to believe it. I could be wrong but I seem to remember reading that.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,764
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Umm something similar I've heard is he denies that he is any form of God that some people claim him to be. I don't know if he's ever denied being a lama reincarnation.
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deff
just relax
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Re: It's a choice [Re: Vore]
#16643456 - 08/04/12 08:24 AM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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i heard he had memories from the 13th DL's life so i dunno about that
he says he identifies the most with the 5th and 13th DL's and that he doesn't know if he was all of them iirc
and he denies being a God because that isn't what buddhism teaches. he also says he's not enlightened, and is "just a simple buddhist monk" 
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lizzywonderland
Wonderland Seeker
Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 68
Loc: California
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Re: It's a choice [Re: cbub]
#16643462 - 08/04/12 08:28 AM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
cbub said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
choice is an illusion
DAMN. 
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"I've been told that people in the army do more by 7:00am than I do in my entire day. But if I wake at 6:59am and turn to you to trace the outline of your lips with mine, I will have done enough and killed no one in the process."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,493
Loc: underbelly
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Re: It's a choice [Re: deff]
#16643577 - 08/04/12 09:21 AM (10 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
i heard he had memories from the 13th DL's life so i dunno about that
he says he identifies the most with the 5th and 13th DL's and that he doesn't know if he was all of them iirc
and he denies being a God because that isn't what buddhism teaches. he also says he's not enlightened, and is "just a simple buddhist monk"
If he's a dl and not enlightened then what's the point? Maybe that was true of all of them.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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