|
 Triposaurus
Cold-blooded
Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 26
Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
|
 Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? 
#16609217 - 07/29/12 06:50 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Hello dear cultivators. A.F.O.M has done his first grain transfer to filter bag (actually it was a BRF cake-to-grain transfer) and is slightly worried about the result. He's had previous experience with grain transfer to jars, using some outdated casing methods but with decent result. His last attempt was a bit of a disappointment though, with weak-looking myc and very limited fruiting. He blamed it on the syringe however, and started a new attempt a few weeks ago.
Now he's worried that the myc looks just like last time when it didn't go well, it just doesn't seem to possess that white uniform brilliance he's used to seeing. He'd very much like if some of you experienced growers could take a look at these pictures and judge.
This bag became fully colonised not long ago, and took maybe just 4-5 days from transfer. As you can clearly see, many of the kernels aren't fully covered and you can see right through to them. Does it look like cobweb mold has taken hold? I've seen cobweb mold before on popcorn and it didn't grow like this, however that was in a jar that hadn't been inoculated.
|
 hamloaf
The Lone Pine Cone.
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 8,582
Loc: Oklahoma City. 
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16609235 - 07/29/12 07:02 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Hard to tell for me from here. That growth doesn't look very rhizomorphic. 4-5 days to full colonization after inoculation is also suspect though. When you pop that bag open, be sure to give the myce a sniff before you proceed. If the myce smells sweet and mushroomey, proceed to the next step. Also, if you'de like a better yield, consider spawning that to a bulk substrate such as coir or horse manure or, a mixture of the two instead of simply casing it. Consider using WBS or rye as your grain of choice to run spawn out on.
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16609266 - 07/29/12 07:33 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
BRF cake into popcorn bag?
Man, you got ahold of some bad old outdated info.
Hope it works out for you. 
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Triposaurus
Cold-blooded
Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 26
Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Doc_T]
#16609299 - 07/29/12 07:52 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Doc_T said:
BRF cake into popcorn bag?
Man, you got ahold of some bad old outdated info.
Hope it works out for you.
Any particular reason why you shouldn't spawn from brf cakes? Apart from the multispore dilemma ofc. I'm also aware that most people don't recommend popcorn, but that it works.
Edited by Triposaurus (07/29/12 07:57 AM)
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16609307 - 07/29/12 07:58 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Spawning from BRF cakes is suboptimal because of the dry verm layer.
Popcorn, as you say, is not recommended by many people because it doesn't work well.
And bags just aren't suitable for new users- but props for doing a myc transfer instead of LC. 
Stuff in the pic looks like it might be ok, just heat stressed.
I would break that up, sniff it, let it recolonize, then spawn.
For the future- if you are doing grains, you have a PC.
So why do cakes? Start some grain jars, use those for grain masters.
And get rye. Or WBS if you can't get rye. Forget about popcorn, it's the least likely to work of all possible choices.
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower
Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1,681
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16609318 - 07/29/12 08:00 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Cobweb can make the bags slightly warm to the touch
On a sidenote , I love popcorn spawn and will use it forever . . . It may not work well for many but for me its the best I dont know why . . .
--------------------
IM FUCKING GOIN TO BURNING MAN, MAN !!!
We're all still Noob's. When someone thinks they know it all, they stop learning new things and soon after that they lose interest.
RR
I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: LiquidGlass]
#16609323 - 07/29/12 08:03 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LiquidGlass said:
On a sidenote , I love popcorn spawn and will use it forever . . . It may not work well for many but for me its the best I dont know why . . .
You should figure out why, and then fine-tune your procedures with other grains.
If you can use popcorn successfully you should be able to use anything else.
If you can figure out what's different you'll learn something about yourself and maybe be able to help the next person.
My guess: Not following the tek. But that's just a guess.
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower
Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1,681
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Doc_T]
#16609351 - 07/29/12 08:19 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
I dont know theres something about popcorn that just makes it easy for me to get the moisture content right. Whenever I follow teks I always follow them to the T, but I have been doing it so long now I just use a combination of teks I have learned over the years. Though I do have a lot of expirience, it is apparent to me that you have a lot more technical knowledge than I and I always appreciate your input which you never give in a rude or sarcastic way . . .
Anyway my comfort with popcorn may be attributed to the fact that I dont just use popcorn alone, I throw in a little verm/coir/brf mix. I guess I should try that with the other grains . . .
--------------------
IM FUCKING GOIN TO BURNING MAN, MAN !!!
We're all still Noob's. When someone thinks they know it all, they stop learning new things and soon after that they lose interest.
RR
I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: LiquidGlass]
#16609460 - 07/29/12 09:08 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
How do you prep grains? Soak/simmer/strain? Or what?
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Triposaurus
Cold-blooded
Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 26
Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: LiquidGlass]
#16609463 - 07/29/12 09:10 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
My friend did grain-to-grain transfers last year with good results, he tried it again this spring and it failed utterly (about 10 liters of popcorn went to waste). The spawn was produced from two separate spore inoculations from the same syringe, with the same bad result. He used the first batch of spawn to make a monotub with sterilized 50/50 coir/verm, which didn't even colonize and suffered very obvious trichoderma.
The second batch of spawn was mixed with verm and coir into smaller containers and put into a proper fruiting environment. Only one out of the 4 big cakes produced fruit, and it turned out to only around 3 grams dry weight.
Now a few months later, a different syringe with a different cube variety was used, and as explained earlier the myc looks suspiciously weak and fuzzy (besides fast-growing). Bags were shaken and smelled, and from what could be picked up through the filter it smelled alright. An hour or so after the shake some psilocybe-typical bruising was noted on some of the kernels, which I would say ought to be taken as a positive sign.
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16609474 - 07/29/12 09:15 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
If you want to do bags, you need to get into agar work.
It's a lot cheaper and easier than it seems, here's how I do it.
And get a big bag of rye berries at the feed store, you'll find that your overall succeess rates and yield will go up vs popcorn.
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Triposaurus
Cold-blooded
Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 26
Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Doc_T]
#16609582 - 07/29/12 09:59 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Thanks for the advice. Spawning from a brf cake was hardly a planned decision, it was just kind of a side project (he decided to play it safe this time around with brf cakes). He's done some work with agar before, using that excellent no-pour method. I guess he was lucky last year and managed to isolate some good mycelium.
Is it a horrible shot in the dark to use multispore inoculations for grain transfer, or should you always expect some fruiting as long as there are no contaminants?
Edited by Triposaurus (07/29/12 10:05 AM)
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16609612 - 07/29/12 10:08 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
With cubensis, you'll usually get fruitbodies from a multispore grow. That's less true of some other species.
Once you do get fruits, take a tissue clone to agar and go from there, that will get you better results.
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Doc_T]
#16609946 - 07/29/12 11:48 AM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
LiquidGlass, do you use a plastic colander? If so you might see better results using a wire mesh strainer with other grains.
That's one area where the large hard grains of popcorn have an advantage, it's easy to remove excess surface moisture.
--------------------
You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
|
ya der eh
Crazy Giggling S.O.B.
Registered: 06/11/12
Posts: 309
Loc: Between Canada and Mexico
Last seen: 7 months, 7 minutes
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16610319 - 07/29/12 01:07 PM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Triposaurus said: He used the first batch of spawn to make a monotub with sterilized 50/50 coir/verm, which didn't even colonize and suffered very obvious trichoderma.
Hello! Possibly you just typed the wrong word but if your bud sterilized his substrate that could have been a problem. Or did you mean pasteurize? Take care!
--------------------
    
For being a "free" country their isn't alot a person has the freedom to do any longer!
***Trade List***
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower
Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 1,681
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: ya der eh]
#16610835 - 07/29/12 03:15 PM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
I use a big metal steaming pot as a strainer, but after being strained I lay it out on a towel for a while to dry. Oh yea and to hydrate I pressure cook the popcorn for an hour, sometimes in coffee. I want try experimenting with other grains, but I just ordered a 25lb bag of popcorn so ill prob use that first
--------------------
IM FUCKING GOIN TO BURNING MAN, MAN !!!
We're all still Noob's. When someone thinks they know it all, they stop learning new things and soon after that they lose interest.
RR
I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey
|
Triposaurus
Cold-blooded
Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 26
Last seen: 4 months, 26 days
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: ya der eh]
#16610917 - 07/29/12 03:37 PM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ya der eh said:
Quote:
Triposaurus said: He used the first batch of spawn to make a monotub with sterilized 50/50 coir/verm, which didn't even colonize and suffered very obvious trichoderma.
Hello! Possibly you just typed the wrong word but if your bud sterilized his substrate that could have been a problem. Or did you mean pasteurize? Take care!
Thank you for pointing this out. No, the substrate was in fact pressure cooked. He didn't think it would make too much of a difference as opposed to if you just pasteurized the bulk substrate. The main reason he did this was that the monotub he was spawning to was quite small, and he didn't need much verm/coir mix. Pasteurising requires a sustained temperature over a longer period of time, and with such little substrate a bucket and boiling water would simply not do it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the various microorganisms in the coir which tend to survive pasteurisation can be beneficial to the mycelium but are hardly essential.
|
ya der eh
Crazy Giggling S.O.B.
Registered: 06/11/12
Posts: 309
Loc: Between Canada and Mexico
Last seen: 7 months, 7 minutes
|
Re: Popcorn grain bags, does this look right? [Re: Triposaurus]
#16611020 - 07/29/12 03:55 PM (10 months, 14 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Triposaurus said:
Quote:
ya der eh said:
Quote:
Triposaurus said: He used the first batch of spawn to make a monotub with sterilized 50/50 coir/verm, which didn't even colonize and suffered very obvious trichoderma.
Hello! Possibly you just typed the wrong word but if your bud sterilized his substrate that could have been a problem. Or did you mean pasteurize? Take care!
Thank you for pointing this out. No, the substrate was in fact pressure cooked. He didn't think it would make too much of a difference as opposed to if you just pasteurized the bulk substrate. The main reason he did this was that the monotub he was spawning to was quite small, and he didn't need much verm/coir mix. Pasteurizing requires a sustained temperature over a longer period of time, and with such little substrate a bucket and boiling water would simply not do it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the various microorganisms in the coir which tend to survive pasteurization can be beneficial to the mycelium but are hardly essential.
My understanding is those beneficial bacteria that are still present if you don't go above 170 degrees will fight off competitors to your mycelium. Allowing your mycelium to have time to colonize the substrate before trich or something else does. With sterilizing it would make it more or less a free for all which is why you may have experienced contam in that tub. I would appreciate some peeps with more knowledge than I to weigh in on this. Take care!
--------------------
For being a "free" country their isn't alot a person has the freedom to do any longer!
***Trade List***
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Shop for: 
Edit 
Reply 
