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 Playful Hate
Transhuman Polyglot
Registered: 05/15/12
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Quote:
LSDenthusiast said:
He exploited others for his gain. If you want him to be your teacher, then so be it.
People do a fine job of exploiting themselves.
If you're referring to the money involved (which is a sore spot for every self-deprecating spiritualist with ascetic piety), look at the rich people who willingly sold everything they had and renounced their money to him. He didn't command anything. It wasn't Jonestown; anyone could leave. And yet the place exploded with people quicker than fucking Plymouth Rock - but this time the new found land was the interior landscape.
He never seeked to awaken or "exploit" anyone:
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,772
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No one is saying religious persecution is acceptable, but OSHO as an individual was completely fucked up. Its pretty obvious he coordinated the bio terrorist attack. He claimed innocence, just like anyone in his shoes would. Some of his teachings are useful, and some are completely unrealistic, like "I think children should be raised by the entirety of society, not by parents." When someone questioned him spending millions of dollars on cars, he responded "It's their anger that I cherish." In addition, he had huge ego-mania despite preaching against it.
I really don't like how you're downplaying this evil shit:
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By September 24, 1984, more than 150 people were violently ill.[20] By the end of September, 751 cases of acute gastroenteritis were documented; lab results showed that all of the victims were infected with Salmonella enterica Typhimurium.[20] Symptoms included diarrhea, fever, chills, nausea, vomiting, headaches, abdominal pain, and bloody stools.[17] Victims ranged in age from an infant, born two days after his mother's infection and initially given a five-percent chance of survival,[12] to an 87-year-old.[8]
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Playful Hate
Transhuman Polyglot
Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 1,040
Loc:
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 Re: Transfer of sexual energy.  [Re: Vore]
#16580671 - 07/24/12 03:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vore said:
I really don't like how you're downplaying this evil shit:
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By September 24, 1984, more than 150 people were violently ill.[20] By the end of September, 751 cases of acute gastroenteritis were documented; lab results showed that all of the victims were infected with Salmonella enterica Typhimurium.[20] Symptoms included diarrhea, fever, chills, nausea, vomiting, headaches, abdominal pain, and bloody stools.[17] Victims ranged in age from an infant, born two days after his mother's infection and initially given a five-percent chance of survival,[12] to an 87-year-old.[8]
By citing the gruesome effects and referring to it as "evil shit" you're playing into the fear-driven tendency that media exploits every night on the boob tube, using what Robert Anton Wilson called 'fnords'. Illness is bad news bears, but describing how horrific it is doesn't attribute anything.
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Its pretty obvious he coordinated the bio terrorist attack.
There is no independent proof of this. The investigation was coordinated, coincidentally, by the same local/national authorities that sought to expel them. The bacteria "discovered" in the lab can be easily attributed to placement. A joint was placed on Timothy Leary, which also landed his ass in prison and disbanded many of those damned long-hair hippies who also had some weird affinity to the word love. This is not to say that commune wasn't possibly responsible for the attack, but it could have also easily been organized by followers independent of his input.
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some are completely unrealistic, like "I think children should be raised by the entirety of society, not by parents."
Sorry to bust your bubble, but parentless children is the entire story of human beings - save for a few thousand years ago when paternity was finally understood and rolled downhill with private property and the control of female sexuality. Tribal societies are arguably more sane than sublimated nuclear families and their bag of Freudian tricks.
Quote:
In addition, he had huge ego-mania despite preaching against it.
He joked constantly and rarely took himself seriously. I've watched most every video archive of him, and he spends all of his time talking about philosophy, spirituality, history, and the arts in general.
The person with the huge ego-mania is the fucking puppet that "runs" the "real" world.
Is this so hard to forget?
I think his campaign funding was a little bigger than Osho's, and he's still waging war. 
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,772
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Quote:
Playful Hate said:
Quote:
Vore said:
Its pretty obvious he coordinated the bio terrorist attack.
There is no independent proof of this. The investigation was coordinated, coincidentally, by the same local/national authorities that sought to expel them. The bacteria "discovered" in the lab can be easily attributed to placement. A joint was placed on Timothy Leary, which also landed his ass in prison and disbanded many of those damned long-hair hippies who also had some weird affinity to the word love. This is not to say that commune wasn't possibly responsible for the attack, but it could have also easily been organized by followers independent of his input.
You say "independent investigation" as if there are detectives roaming around researching cases and reporting the proceedings for free. Yes, the judicial system processed him. Yes, it was done by the local authorities who he poisoned. Who else would have done it?
Quote:
The mayor of Rajneeshpuram, David Berry Knapp (known as Swami Krishna Deva or KD), turned state's evidence and gave an account of his knowledge of the salmonella attack to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.[11] He claimed that Sheela said "she had talked with [Rajneesh] about the plot to decrease voter turnout in The Dalles by making people sick. Sheela said that [Rajneesh] commented that it was best not to hurt people, but if a few died not to worry."
Most of the people in his commune were sheep, excited just by being included in something just like the Manson girls were. And OSHO played it off just like Manson did, trying to avoid personal responsibility, and it didn't work.
Your comparisons have no basis in reality. It seems like if someone's your hero they had to be framed for their crime. And please stop leaping around to Obama and the people that persecuted Osho. You're trying to shift the focus and it isn't working.
Edited by Vore (07/24/12 04:11 PM)
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Playful Hate
Transhuman Polyglot
Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 1,040
Loc:
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: Vore]
#16580783 - 07/24/12 04:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
You say "independent investigation" as if there are detectives roaming around researching cases and reporting the proceedings for free. Yes, the judicial system processed him. Yes, it was done by the local authorities who he poisoned. Who else would have done it?
The issue is agenda and principality. In court cases, for example, independent lawyers can obviously have hidden incentives; in academia and research, scientists can have biased funding that leads them to fudge their "independent" research towards a favored outcome, and so on. I'm aware of this. I don't trust any government who has a long history of lies and violence, particularly when it comes to dealing with rivalries of peace and change.
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Your comparisons have no basis in reality.
Glad you have the keys to reality.
I want a copy of that reality so I can keep it in my pocket. When someone says I'm making inane comparisons, I'll show them the master key, stick out my tongue, and go: "na na na boo boo!"
Quote:
It seems like if someone's your hero they had to be framed for their crime.
Notice how you're talking about me and my "heros" and we've suddenly left the Osho case.
If I had a buck for every time convos get swayed I could buy my own commune in Oregon.
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,772
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Quote:
Playful Hate said:
Quote:
You say "independent investigation" as if there are detectives roaming around researching cases and reporting the proceedings for free. Yes, the judicial system processed him. Yes, it was done by the local authorities who he poisoned. Who else would have done it?
The issue is agenda and principality. In court cases, for example, independent lawyers can obviously have hidden incentives; in academia and research, scientists can have biased funding that leads them to fudge their "independent" research towards a favored outcome, and so on. I'm aware of this. I don't trust any government who has a long history of lies and violence, particularly when it comes to dealing with rivalries of peace and change.
That's my point, there isn't an alternative. The system isn't perfect but that doesn't mean they're framing someone by poisoning their own people. That doesn't make any sense.
Quote:
Playful Hate said:
Quote:
It seems like if someone's your hero they had to be framed for their crime.
Notice how you're talking about me and my "heros" and we've suddenly left the Osho case.
This is completely relevant. Your hero is Osho, I figured you were smart enough to make that connection.
Edit: Anyways, we've derailed this thread long enough. I'm just as guilty as you there.
Edited by Vore (07/24/12 04:24 PM)
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Playful Hate
Transhuman Polyglot
Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 1,040
Loc:
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: Vore]
#16580898 - 07/24/12 04:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
This is completely relevant. Your hero is Osho, I figured you were smart enough to make that connection.
I have been studying cultural anthropology formally for a good stretch. If being knowledgeable about someone makes them my hero, I'm also a huge fan of Hitler, Mao Zedong, and Mickey Mouse.
I draw my influences from many different sources, like everyone else. With eclecticism, we're all capable of picking and choosing qualities.
Quote:
That's my point, there isn't an alternative. The system isn't perfect but that doesn't mean they're framing someone by poisoning their own people. That doesn't make any sense.
Saying there is an alternative, is what got Osho kicked out of this country.
At first I was being antagonistic and facetious to rile you up, but now I kind of feel bad for you. The US government - for their own covert means - has been documented poisoning, torturing, dosing, kidnapping, and exploiting innocent people since it's inception. I'm talking ivy league research papers and undisputed historical evidence. As R A Wilson said, reality is simply what you can get away with.
Of course, conspiracy theory isn't a default argument. There are many cases and events where things are exposed/transparent and are to be taken at face value. Sadly, when it comes to nationalistic cases we lose some of that transparency - it's for the same reason Wikileaks caused such a huge, international outcry. Those thousands of documents endangered many of the concealed lies that keep this big system churning.
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Playful Hate
Transhuman Polyglot
Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 1,040
Loc:
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Quote:
Edit: Anyways, we've derailed this thread long enough.
Yea, I'm done debating too.
But for the record, the Osho controversy is always germane to this forum. 
Especially when it involves sexual energy.
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,772
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Not gonna debate this anymore because like I said, irrelevant to the topic.
Quote:
Playful Hate said:
At first I was being antagonistic and facetious to rile you up, but now I kind of feel bad for you. The US government - for their own covert means - has been documented poisoning, torturing, dosing, kidnapping, and exploiting innocent people since it's inception.
I understand that you're a troll, you don't need to confess to me. Don't mean to break your bubble but I'm a recovering video game addict, a troll doesn't rile me up. That's why I haven't been responding to your ad hominem and simply attacked your argument. I've done my research, I know all about MK ultra. I also think it was British spies that ultimately caused our entrance into WWI by giving false intelligence to Germans. In this case, I think a cult leader poisoned innocent people based on the evidence.
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic
 
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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is semen retention dangerous to health?
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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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 yeah
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: Cactilove]
#16593285 - 07/26/12 03:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Osho was actually an incarnation of Ravana.
http://www.sahajvidya.org/SahajVidya/0_Files_SahajVidya/Q_R/Ravana.pdf
Go look what he had to say about Ravana... the ego is palpable.
Edited by yeah (07/26/12 03:07 PM)
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Vore
Registered: 05/23/12
Posts: 1,772
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: yeah] 1
#16593390 - 07/26/12 03:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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 I can definitely see the comparisons there.
You pull a lot of cool stuff from that site. 
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yeah
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: Vore]
#16594505 - 07/26/12 05:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vore said:
I can definitely see the comparisons there.
You pull a lot of cool stuff from that site.
Mhmm. You should read around it. But be aware that sometimes she (Shri Mataji) would speak in extremes so as not to let us become conditioned or because of the audience she was talking to.
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Edited by yeah (07/26/12 06:00 PM)
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resonant111
left ∞ right
Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: Cactilove]
#16607139 - 07/28/12 04:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cactilove said:
is semen retention dangerous to health?
Read this article, it talks about the main dangers of the practice: http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/HLDangerMain.htm
For me, the psychological stagnation was the most dangerous part:
Semen retention gone wrong can result in:
- anger,
- over-aggressiveness,
- depression,
- eventual lower center rebellion against retention,
- sexual obsession, compulsion, addiction. (Men tend to be sexually frenetic anyway. While a satisfying sex life is important, the purpose of wisely directed jing cultivation is not to enable sexual mania, but to gradually access deep harmony.)
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LSDenthusiast
Not Knowing
Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 389
Last seen: 3 months, 16 hours
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: resonant111]
#16607269 - 07/28/12 05:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah all of those symptoms are from suppression. Not transmutation. I know monks who have been celibate for over 40 years. Not angry or aggressive people at all. Actually the nicest people I've ever known. Nor have I ever felt any of those symptoms listed.
To me that aggressiveness is the frustration involved with being repressed. That is why I said, don't do it because you feel you have too. Only do it if you consciously choose too because you can feel that you would benefit from it.
But come on. Dangerous to ones health? Have you ever heard of stories involving terrible health issues or horrible acts committed because of transmutation? No, it's the complete opposite.
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: resonant111]
#16609121 - 07/29/12 03:29 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow, this is not for me, I think ill stick to my regular routine of healthy sexual expression, but still remain celibate only during special times of the year for no more than 1 to 1 1/2 month. There is a way to transmute the energy though without semen retention yes? A lot of these dangers seem pretty serious and I don't have a proper teacher.
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Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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yeah
Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: Cactilove]
#16610121 - 07/29/12 10:25 AM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Which Taoist sages actually wrote about this topic and what are the names of their texts?
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Satyapriya
Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,147
Loc: Earth
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: yeah]
#16610827 - 07/29/12 01:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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lots of interesting information here! much  for those who posted thoughtful, ON TOPIC, comments 
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www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. ॐ Collectively Conscious ॐ is a community-powered, community-verified, alternative news/multimedia aggregation service for global citizens.
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LSDenthusiast
Not Knowing
Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 389
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Re: Transfer of sexual energy. [Re: resonant111]
#16611143 - 07/29/12 02:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago) |
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Also I want to point out something in the link you gave.
Here's a quote from your source:
"(By the way, "semen retention" refers to when there's been aroused sexual activity, approaching orgasm, but no ejaculation. Saved aroused jing is more problematic than unaroused.)"
I have no interest or experience with what other people on this site do. In regards to approaching orgasm and backing off. That is something I do not believe in. It has no purpose at all, and this is what your entire link is about.
I'm talking about no arousal at all.
Another quote from your link:
"This is about "what is stored but not transformed.""
Exactly. It's about the ones who try to be celibate. Yet still play around with the sexual arousal. But do not know how to transmute it properly. Which is not that hard, just stop playing around with arousal.
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resonant111
left ∞ right
Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 1,952
Loc: IL
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Quote:
LSDenthusiast said:
Yeah all of those symptoms are from suppression. Not transmutation. I know monks who have been celibate for over 40 years. Not angry or aggressive people at all. Actually the nicest people I've ever known. Nor have I ever felt any of those symptoms listed.
To me that aggressiveness is the frustration involved with being repressed. That is why I said, don't do it because you feel you have too. Only do it if you consciously choose too because you can feel that you would benefit from it.
I dunno, my choice to start transmuting sexual energy was completely and totally conscious. In fact, succeeding at it was something I truly desired, more than almost anything to be honest.
I didn't mess around with arousal either. Straight transmutation...with ALL the precautions...healthy diet, daily meditations, keeping my mind totally clean from visual/mental sexual stimuli.
In the end, I realized it was unnatural. Day 7 was usually the peak of the "positive" benefits of transmuting...more energy, clarity etc. But once week two rolled around (day 14) I'd start to feel like a pent up, repressed MESS of energy...even with my most sincere intentions. The last time I tried this, i actually felt very depressed for most of the second week, and my emotions were all over the place. That was when i said "enough is enough! I'm gonna be happy with normal sexuality dammit!" I had been promised joy and abundance from this practice and in the end all i ever got was a bunch of frustrated sexual desires...lol.
To be honest, giving this up was the most liberating spiritual choice i've made in a while. I TRULY believed transmutation and all the benefits...did the practice for over a year and a half with very sincere intentions...in the end, all it did was enslave me and made me afraid of my own body and sexual nature.
maybe i did it wrong? i just don't see how repressing our biological urges for a "higher cause" is in any form liberating...in fact, i felt more like a martyr than anything else.
Quote:
LSDenthusiast said:
To me that aggressiveness is the frustration involved with being repressed. That is why I said, don't do it because you feel you have too. Only do it if you consciously choose too because you can feel that you would benefit from it.
ALL transmutation DOES involve sexual repression, at least to an extent. The fact that one is not masturbating, having sex or even fantasizing IS a repression of the base physical desire...sure one can channel the energy "other things" besides physical sex, but the fact is...the physical and even "imagined" aspect of sex becomes totally repressed. And in my own experience, that has not proven to be healthy, but rather, unnatural...
I did this consciously, and i dunno, it just seemed like a bullshit teaching to control one's sexuality. if you can control a person's sexuality you don't even need a god/religion/guru to put fear and discipline into them...they put the fear and discipline into their own self.
i agree with this article alot at this point: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2011/05/69-licks-on-brahmacharya-and-sex-20/
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Edited by resonant111 (07/30/12 05:49 AM)
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