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 Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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 Continuity of Experience 
#16546609 - 07/17/12 10:02 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Let's say that an exact copy was made of you. Would you experience from both points of view at the same time? That doesn't seem to make sense, so there would be a subjective difference in experience. The only difference between the two beings would be their positions in space and time. You would think this infers that the continuity of experience depends on position in space and time.
But the problem is that you occupy different positions in space and time with every passing moment, but your experience still remains continuous.
Why is this?
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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 LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,696
Loc: The Hand
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 Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16546682 - 07/17/12 10:20 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Don't submit to dogma.
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GoreTuzk
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 129
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
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I think the difference is that the original and the copy would have two separate brains. If you take the case of cephalopodes, since their nervous system is spread throughout their body, cut one in half and you get two very fucked up cephalodes, in the same way that you cannot get half a magnet, only two smaller magnets. So, I think continuity of experience boils down to the separateness/union of nervous systems.
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: GoreTuzk]
#16548211 - 07/18/12 08:35 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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The beings would be identical in every way with the exception of their position in space in time. We are not cephalodes, and cutting ourselves in half would kill us.
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
 
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,348
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16548311 - 07/18/12 09:31 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Not if it's longitudinally
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Point taken.
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16548669 - 07/18/12 11:45 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
The beings would be identical in every way with the exception of their position in space in time. We are not cephalodes, and cutting ourselves in half would kill us.
if they are in different positions in space time then they would be exposed to different forces in different directions. They would not be identical, but very similar.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16548688 - 07/18/12 11:50 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
Let's say that an exact copy was made of you. Would you experience from both points of view at the same time? That doesn't seem to make sense, so there would be a subjective difference in experience. The only difference between the two beings would be their positions in space and time. You would think this infers that the continuity of experience depends on position in space and time.
But the problem is that you occupy different positions in space and time with every passing moment, but your experience still remains continuous.
Why is this?
No one knows why. Do you think that is what scientists study?
All we know is that brains tend to entail minds.
If you make another brain, youll get another mind. If that brain is similar to the brain you already have, then the new mind will be similar to the mind you already have.
As soon as your copy woke up, it would be seeing different things to you, it would become a new person.
The issue of moving brains poses a big problem to anyone who believes that their experience exists.
People who believe only in colourless particles have no problem understanding any of this.
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
Loc: fixed in it's gaze
Last seen: 8 days, 8 hours
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16548752 - 07/18/12 12:03 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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That's nuts,I've just been thinking that waking up everyday after shutting down for sleep, hinders my continuity of experience on a daily basis. This results in what is almost like a partial reset, and means that burning inspiration can be quelled over night, or a mournful sorrow can be stirred up from nowhere. Whole trails of thought get pushed under the carpet, writing helps, but not with the emotional continuity.
This probably doesn't have much to do with the ops post, but I was just amazed by the title, a meager five minutes after I had been contemplating it myself. 
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Noteworthy]
#16549146 - 07/18/12 01:19 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
if they are in different positions in space time then they would be exposed to different forces in different directions. They would not be identical, but very similar.
Right, but you are a different person with every passing moment while continuity of experience remains.
Quote:
No one knows why. Do you think that is what scientists study?
I'm sure some scientists study this. Why would you ask that?
Quote:
All we know is that brains tend to entail minds.
If you make another brain, youll get another mind. If that brain is similar to the brain you already have, then the new mind will be similar to the mind you already have.
A working brain entails brain function. I don't believe the mind is separate.
Quote:
As soon as your copy woke up, it would be seeing different things to you, it would become a new person.
You see different things with every passing moment too, so in a sense you are constantly becoming a new person yet continuity of experience remains.
Quote:
The issue of moving brains poses a big problem to anyone who believes that their experience exists.
What do you mean by 'moving brains', and what problem does this pose to someone who believes their experience exists?
Quote:
People who believe only in colourless particles have no problem understanding any of this.
Color is the brain's interpretation of different wavelengths of light. Wavelengths are effected by the structure of particles.
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,170
Loc: 
Last seen: 6 hours, 48 seconds
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16549165 - 07/18/12 01:23 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
Let's say that an exact copy was made of you. Would you experience from both points of view at the same time? That doesn't seem to make sense, so there would be a subjective difference in experience. The only difference between the two beings would be their positions in space and time. You would think this infers that the continuity of experience depends on position in space and time.
But the problem is that you occupy different positions in space and time with every passing moment, but your experience still remains continuous.
Why is this?
You see what both are seeing obviously. It would be like your awareness is divided down the middle and has two 'screens', each would be watching from another prospective. You can do all sorts of crazy crap now, such as fuck yourself.
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: White Beard]
#16549172 - 07/18/12 01:24 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Are you being serious?
If so, how would your awareness be divided down the middle? How would the brains be connected?
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,170
Loc:
Last seen: 6 hours, 48 seconds
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16549187 - 07/18/12 01:27 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Memories said:
Are you being serious?
No. 
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: White Beard]
#16549211 - 07/18/12 01:32 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 5,170
Loc:
Last seen: 6 hours, 48 seconds
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16549227 - 07/18/12 01:35 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16549239 - 07/18/12 01:37 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Too many points to reply to individually, but basically, theres no way of distinguishing continuity of experience from the memory of a continuous experience. That's why its a philosophical problem and not a scientific one.
I agree that we are a different person each moment.
A working brain may entail mind, but this does not mean that the mind is the same as the brain. If the mind was the same as the brain then I would have no reason to empathise with anyone. They would just be atoms moving around. I empathise with other people because I know what pain and pleasure feels like. Its nothing like atoms and forces and all the other physical stuff which we correlate with the mind.
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Noteworthy]
#16549270 - 07/18/12 01:42 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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How would the mind being nothing more than brain activity remove the ability for empathy? Just because brain activity is entirely composed of atoms doesn't mean people don't feel pain. I believe that everyone is nothing more than a composition of atoms, but I have a strong sense of empathy.
What makes you think that the mind is a separate thing?
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16549458 - 07/18/12 02:51 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Some aspects of the mind are simply patterns in the brain. Other aspects of the mind are not just patterns in the brain, but are experiences which correlate with those patterns.
These experiences are 'composed' of objects which are isometric to encoded patterns in the physical world (mostly brain structures). Each sentience has access to its own mental objects. I only know of the existance of my own mental objects, nothing more. This is Idealism. But I do not consider myself to parade anyone's philosophy besides my own. I have my own 'Idealist' philosophy that has been informed by my experiences. Some of those experiences constitute an infinitely complex pattern that I call reality. Also are the infinitely mysterious patterns that I call 'other people' or sentience. I can doubt that both of these things exist, but I do not doubt that they do. I am a believer in both the physical world and other minds. The physical world might just be an orderly interaction of minds, too. I am open to many possibilities but I generally act with faith in the physical world and the many sentiences that feel it. The fact that patterns in the physical world (we call them 'the brain') correlate with patterns in a particular sentience's sensation, does not mean that theyre all just the same thing. I do not empathise with the physical world, I only empathise with sentience, for that is what the pain is. The pain is sentience of pain. The physical mechanism in the body that underlies pain is necessary in order to preserve a law-like relationship between objects in the physical world, and sentiences.
This is and is not Dualism. In some ways it is monism, in other ways it is pluralist. That is not important. All that is important is that everything that has ever existed for me has been sensation. This includes the sensation of thoughts and emotions and models.
Some models are rigorous, interconnected, and highly consistent with a whole bunch of social factors. These models exist. I could say that they are a different ontological category... That would make me a dualist. However, I think it is just as likely that the physical world is but a pattern divined by a cosmic consciousness or even a concerto played by a soulful bunch of sentient quanta or emotionally vibrating molecules.
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,148
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 12 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Noteworthy]
#16549467 - 07/18/12 02:53 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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What experiences made you believe that the mind is separate from the brain?
And I ask you again: How would the mind being nothing more than brain activity remove the ability for empathy?
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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Re: Continuity of Experience [Re: Memories]
#16549535 - 07/18/12 03:06 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Brain activity cannot be good or bad, it just is. Good or Bad occurs only in the perspective of feelings.
You should be telling me why I should care about matter? My own reason is because I have strong reason to believe that every physical brain is associated with a subjective experience. That experience is feelings and they can be good or bad. I care about other animals because I have faith that they feel pain like I do.
I don't need faith to believe in my own feelings though. They precede intellectual thought in the first place.
I wonder just as much what experiences made you believe that the mind is the same as the brain? To me it is like believing that the television IS the television program. When actually the television program is a pattern that occurs in the television. Similarly, the brain is a pattern that appears in the mind, just like any other damn thing 
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