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 topdog82
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 If god is innately good...? 
#16546161 - 07/17/12 08:11 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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If God (assuming you believe him) is innately good as illustrated in a majority of religions across the world, how can he be omnipotent and all-pervasive?
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: topdog82]
#16546178 - 07/17/12 08:15 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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A possible interpretation is that we ate the fruit of good and evil and so now see good and evil rather than just god's love -- god's still there we just have a layered knowledge of good/evil over the top.
another possible interpretation is that there is good and bad in all things. so although god is in all things perhaps god is not the only presence in all thing.
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 Cactilove
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: topdog82]
#16546802 - 07/17/12 10:48 PM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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Wait, first explain why he could not be omnipotent and all pervasive?
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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kennedy
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Cactilove]
#16547715 - 07/18/12 03:12 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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Do you mean to ask how God can be in and a part of everything, including the "evil" things that exist, since he is supposedly all-encompassing and also completely good?
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Cactilove
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: kennedy]
#16547769 - 07/18/12 03:33 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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It must be because something innately good can still become evil or vice a versa
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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TheNuanderthal
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Cactilove]
#16547841 - 07/18/12 04:10 AM (10 months, 1 day ago) |
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Some would say that the earth is an arena whereby we get to earn rewards for the hereafter when we die, and God puts evil in our way to test us, and also so that we may be rewarded by overcoming it.
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Proverbs 20:30 The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly. 
"Those who understand history are doomed to watch other idiots repeat it" Hakim Bey
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Mycotheologist
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Maybe God works in mysterious ways. What seems bad, might be good in the grand scheme of things. For example, have you ever emerged from a harsh/challenging experience, grateful for the experience due to what you learned from it? As for omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience, if what we perceive as reality itself, is what some would call God, then thats a given. People talk about God like its some kind of agreed upon concept when in reality its one of the most ambiguous concepts known to man.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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I think the modern interpretation of omnipotence is just different to the one ancient people thought about.
Omnipotence could mean the ability to do anything (anything logically consistent, ie). That is the modern interpretation. This is probably inspired by our technological advance and our focus on new emerging abilities making us more and more powerful and allowing our imagination to expand.
Omnipotence could also mean the agency over all things. If one person was in charge of everything that happens, then they are in the ancient sense 'omnipotent'. This ancient notion is inspired by kings, who sought to have control over all events that happened. It was more about dominion than the potential for magic.
If we take this 'ancient' interpretation, the benevolent god is like a benevolent all-powerful king. Able to influence everything but attempting to achieve the most ideal state.
Of course, we still have the question of what is the most ideal state. How do we know what the most ideal state of the universe is, given the laws of physics? Maybe physical systems are just not flexible enough to allow this universe to contain life that doesn't feel pain, at least for a billion of years of existance.
This could be the most ideal universe possible, and we might be on our way to eradicating life on earth, leaving only a highly capable, blissful organism known as the trans-human. This transman spreads throughout the galaxy, sustaining its peaceful life, exploring the universe, and milking virtual realities for the infinite fun that they may bring in the moments between beholding awe for the stars.
Personally though, I want life on earth to stay here and avoid extinction.
Until humans find peace in themselves, the natural world must survive, for if humans fail to find peace, they are a disgrace to the beauty of the earth, but if the earth begets a trully self sustaining, technologically secured being that can play soulful jazz, then the violent throws of the jungle may finally be able to rest, gloriously.
If it is at all possible, we are still a long way away from that point.
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Noteworthy]
#16550625 - 07/18/12 07:03 PM (10 months, 23 hours ago) |
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Until humans find peace in themselves, the natural world must survive, for if humans fail to find peace, they are a disgrace to the beauty of the earth, but if the earth begets a trully self sustaining, technologically secured being that can play soulful jazz, then the violent throws of the jungle may finally be able to rest, gloriously.
What a hoot!
What beauty of the earth? Ripping, tearing, grinding, eating , fighting, shitting, struggle for resources and then fuck till you drop only to die being prey to something else or some slow infirmity or disease.
Oh you meant the sunsets. 
IMO you have a romantically inflated view of what humans are capable of.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Cactilove
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Icelander]
#16550702 - 07/18/12 07:14 PM (10 months, 23 hours ago) |
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HA thats hell thinking. Let me contrast! compassion, love, helpfulness, spirituality, nirvana, Life, Death, experience, and yes sunsets and waterfalls.
I.M.O You have a disgustingly inflated view of what humans are capable of.
There ya go yang to your yin and more importantly unity of both.
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
Edited by Cactilove (07/18/12 08:22 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Cactilove]
#16553567 - 07/19/12 10:52 AM (10 months, 7 hours ago) |
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nirvana? Spirituality? Don't forget flying saucers and aliens. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Cactilove
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Icelander]
#16553693 - 07/19/12 11:37 AM (10 months, 6 hours ago) |
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Oh ya my bad well saucers can be beautiful but, I don't know about aliens? Maybe some of em! 
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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Cactilove
Mystic
Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,512
Last seen: 7 minutes, 35 seconds
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Cactilove]
#16553710 - 07/19/12 11:40 AM (10 months, 6 hours ago) |
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I have felt both so if you are saying they don't exist than you are sorely mistaken sir! I'm sorry if you haven't. 
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,917
Loc: underbelly
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Cactilove]
#16553899 - 07/19/12 12:30 PM (10 months, 6 hours ago) |
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I felt jesus talk to me and I felt it when he came into my heart and saved me. Cept later I realized he didn't .
I tend to look at the balance of things. I don't deny nature can look or feel beautiful at times etc. But overall nature is pretty much a not stop struggle for survival. Even at rest we are just recharging for the fight.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Waler
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Icelander]
#16554579 - 07/19/12 03:28 PM (10 months, 3 hours ago) |
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Personally, I don't believe in a God.
However, here's my 2 cents -
We have to remember "Good" and "Bad" are not absolute terms the same way "Up" and "Down" are.
They are relative, ever-changing and sometimes very different when looking at a bigger picture.
For example -
Let's say you walk across a long path on the side of a mountain and you see a man that slipped off the edge and is hanging for his life. Is helping him Good or Bad?
Now, let's add the following information - the man hanging for his life over there is on his way to bomb a hospital. If you'll help him there is nothing that will stop him from killing hundreds of people. By helping him you will be directly responsible to the deaths of hundreds of people. Is helping him Good or Bad?
Sometimes a bigger picture helps.
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Cactilove
Mystic
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Icelander]
#16554609 - 07/19/12 03:36 PM (10 months, 3 hours ago) |
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How did you realize he didn't or did you let the common western rational mind take over your entire being once again?
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I don't nor ever will know shit, stop acting like I do!
Stop claiming I have magic powers!
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dustinthewind13
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Posts: 4,310
Loc: Being a burden
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Waler]
#16554644 - 07/19/12 03:44 PM (10 months, 2 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Waler said:
Now, let's add the following information - the man hanging for his life over there is on his way to bomb a hospital.
If he told me he was going to bomb a hospital, then that would be the tip of the iceberg of incompetence. I would most definitely consider this good comedy, but hell I'm a good guy. I'd end his misery right away by helping the edge.
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"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
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Waler
Stranger
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Actually, I was adding the information for you. He's mute. 
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dustinthewind13
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Re: If god is innately good...? [Re: Waler]
#16555581 - 07/19/12 07:12 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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If I didn't know what he was going to do, then it would be good to help him. How am I supposed to know?
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"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"
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