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 Wiccan_Seeker
gold foil hat admin
 
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 Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication!   1
#16543499 - 07/17/12 08:16 AM (9 months, 27 days ago) |
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Home Brewers, I believe to have stumbled upon a very simple method to make your beer, cider and wine significantly more intoxicating, while making little compromise to the taste of your beverage.
The intoxicating power of your beverage may increase noticably, or maybe even double. If it does, it could turn beer into wine and wine into port as for potency.
Its surprisingly easy: Make your fermentable liquid as usual, but add a little bit of monosodium glutamate, a spice you can obtain from supermarkets and Asian stores.
The correct proportion is:
6.6gr MSG to every kg of sugar in your liquid
or
3gr MSG to every pound of sugar in your liquid
What is supposed to happen, is that the fermentation turns MSG into sodium-GHB and nitrogen yeast nutrient, the GHB adding significantly to the intoxicating power of your beverage while adding only a very mild salty flavor. SCIENCE
Please note that MSG is a natural component of mashes made with particularly corn meal, so we are enhancing something that occurs naturally in fermentations, not doing a completely new chem thing alien to brewing. Yeast itself in fact is full of glutamate inside its cells, and one of the richest sources of this dietary amino acid.
The boys of Chemistry & Pharmacology would much appreciate it if some of you would make your favorite nondistilled alcoholic beverage, and cautiously test its enhanced psychoactivity - and then report back in this thread and double-posted to the Thread in the Chem forum
Please, brew one for science!
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 Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado 
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 Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16543502 - 07/17/12 08:22 AM (9 months, 27 days ago) |
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Non-distilled only though?
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Wiccan_Seeker
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Doc_T]
#16543506 - 07/17/12 08:26 AM (9 months, 27 days ago) |
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We do not yet know the behavior of the GHB upon distillation, it would probably stay behind in the pot, losing the added advantage. Also distilling might produce an off flavor not present in most nondistilled drinks using this technique.
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geokills
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 Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16543566 - 07/17/12 09:47 AM (9 months, 27 days ago) |
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Fascinating. Hopefully I'll find the time soon to do two identical brew sessions, one with and one without the MSG additive. Never thought I'd have a use for MSG until now! 
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┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥  ╥π╬...
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Riboflavin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16543703 - 07/17/12 11:11 AM (9 months, 27 days ago) |
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Lol, I can just see someone coming out with a brewing calculator that will tell you how much msg to add to your batch based on gravity and batch size.
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All that groks is God.
Edited by Riboflavin (07/17/12 11:11 AM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,562
Loc: Americas
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin] 1
#16568188 - 07/22/12 03:11 PM (9 months, 22 days ago) |
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I've always wanted to do analytical tests on common food items trying to find controlled substances as an excercise to show how absurdist the CSA and DEA is.
If this is true, there should be GHB in some alcoholic products, making beer a controlled substance. (I would think the same would be true of Coca Cola, though they allready have a relationship with the DEA).
The law classifies anything having any amount of controlled substance as itself a controlled substance (and penalties/ mandatory minimums are generally assessed on that basis). Coca Cola and breweries, along with any number of other food producers, are all felons by these ridiculous laws that are applied in this same way to normal people everyday. If you drop a sugar cube with LSD on it into a lake, you've just manufactured a lake's worth of LSD, and can be sentenced on that basis. Gotta love chemistry-ignorant politicians making absurd laws.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: johnm214]
#16568413 - 07/22/12 03:44 PM (9 months, 22 days ago) |
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My skills won't be adding any MSG to my brewing. Or anything I ingest knowingly. The amount of MSG being added to food under the guise of "natural flavor" is disgusting. Yeah sure there is some natural glutamate but this is in quantities that are unregulated as to amount. Sure it makes everything savory taste better so they add it to everything. You don't know how much because it is a GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) additive like salt or sugar is. Look at the damage refined sugar and refined salt does. "Oh sure sugar is found in nature as is salt". Therefore too much is just right??
Besides other than some stoop who adds salt and lime to their nasty skunky Corona who really wants salty beer? Oh yea I forgot GHB...
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (07/22/12 03:47 PM)
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hidenseek
loafter
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16568565 - 07/22/12 04:09 PM (9 months, 22 days ago) |
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isnt ghb illegal?
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#16568769 - 07/22/12 04:56 PM (9 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:
isnt ghb illegal?
OP has said "what is supposed to happen" and we are to be the guinea pigs. GHB pigs?
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Wiccan_Seeker
gold foil hat admin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: johnm214]
#16572988 - 07/23/12 10:18 AM (9 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
If this is true, there should be GHB in some alcoholic products
Quote:
Detection of gamma-butyrolactone (GBL)
as a natural component in wine
by
Vose J, Tighe T, Schwartz M, Buel E.
Vermont Forensic Laboratory,
Waterbury 05676, USA.
J Forensic Sci 2001 Sep;46(5):1164-
ABSTRACT
The compound gamma-butyrolactone (GBL) was found in extracts from samples of unadulterated wines. This finding indicates that GBL is a naturally occurring component in some wines and may be present in similar products. The concentration detected was approximately 5 microg/mL and was easily observed using a simple extraction technique followed by GC/MS analysis. These results illustrate the need to carefully examine an allegedly adulterated sample's matrix before determining a sample was laced with GBL.
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,290
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16576469 - 07/23/12 10:20 PM (9 months, 21 days ago) |
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Super cool thread.
This experiment could be quite easily done with two 1 gallon jugs of juice from the supermarket.
One with msg and one without.
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5is
Cactiphile
Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 969
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Shins]
#16576933 - 07/23/12 11:29 PM (9 months, 21 days ago) |
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This is pure genius.
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Send a desperate man 0.01 bitcoins, It would be extremely appreciated. Here's my address: 1K691d5QnjcrcZ8hiLXkyD9JMCffnVqEbQ Please guys help me out!
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Oeric McKenna
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: 5is]
#16576960 - 07/23/12 11:33 PM (9 months, 21 days ago) |
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Master brewer here. & ohhh haha u caught my attention...& then....GHB??
I'M NOT KNOCKING THIS but man...poisoning my self with date rape hormones while partying seems, to me, questionable! Ha ha haaaaaa lordy...& ewwww salty...
Msg...sounds like chinese food beer!
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Hermaphrodites?? Well, the sign did say mixed gender
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,290
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16577284 - 07/24/12 12:32 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Just a warning mixing GHB and alcohol can be dangerous, potentially fatal.
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 2,518
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Shins]
#16577597 - 07/24/12 01:33 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Yep^ I originally thought he was gonna say.." a way to increase the intoxicating potential of a fermented beverage is to...add more fermentable sugars"
& then things got wierddddd...but...to each- their own..
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Hermaphrodites?? Well, the sign did say mixed gender
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Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 11,290
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Shins]
#16577973 - 07/24/12 03:07 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Also if you try to rape anyone youre scum...
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Spiderbaby
?
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16578190 - 07/24/12 04:40 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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They are safe to mix in reasonable amounts, just like benzodiazepines and alcohol, almost anything in excess can be dangerous.
GHB isn't a date rape drug, date rape drugs are essentially an urban myth. As low as 3% of people in emergency rooms reporting being spiked are actually spiked with sedatives, the rest just drank too much alcohol or were coaxed into doing so.
I'll be trying this thing in the next couple of days, still not sure to make a GHBeer or cider
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Theres a time and a place for everything and its called college,
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,648
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16578733 - 07/24/12 09:58 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Master brewer here. & ohhh haha u caught my attention...& then....GHB??
I'M NOT KNOCKING THIS but man...poisoning my self with date rape hormones while partying seems, to me, questionable! Ha ha haaaaaa lordy...& ewwww salty...
Msg...sounds like chinese food beer!
There you go! Chinese food beer salty and loaded with MSG. Chinese beer already has formaldehyde found in it so what's a little flavor enhancer going to do but make it taste just a little better as you get further poisoned.
I'm with you.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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naum
Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 3,052
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Spiderbaby]
#16581551 - 07/24/12 08:17 PM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
GHB isn't a date rape drug, date rape drugs are essentially an urban myth. As low as 3% of people in emergency rooms reporting being spiked are actually spiked with sedatives, the rest just drank too much alcohol or were coaxed into doing so.
You're making a very complicated issue way too simple. Date rape in the sense of people being spiked is very rare. Most of what is referred to as date rape is actually drug facilitated sexual assault (DFSA), and you're right that consists of girls who drank too much alcohol or smoked too much weed and then consented (or did not specifically revoke consent) to something they later regretted.
GHB is a rather poor substitute for a true date rape drug like flunitrazepam, but the research has shown that GHB is a pretty good "love drug" in the sense that many people report it has aphrodisiac and empathogenic action. So there may be some truth to it causing people to consent to things that they would not have under normal circumstances. Still the demonizing GHB as a date rape drug is pretty stupid especially considering that the vast majority of DFSA cases involve alcohol. If I remember correctly GHB counted for less than 10% in all of the studies I read. DFSA is a touchy legally subject and I don't want to get into that aspect of it.
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: naum]
#16581689 - 07/24/12 08:35 PM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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I've taken GHB a few times, and while it certainly could be used as a "date rape drug" (I have "G'd out" a couple times, so I know how harsh it can be) it really is one of the BEST drugs you can take for social situations - it is FAR better than alcohol!
wiccan - Put me down on the list of testing this out! I'll probably get a couple batches of apfelwein going in the next couple weeks, and I'll do both of them the exact same except as a nitrogen source I will use yeast nutrient in one and MSG in the other.
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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
Edited by trendal (07/24/12 08:38 PM)
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Riboflavin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: trendal]
#16584742 - 07/25/12 09:57 AM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Aren't salts occasionally used by brewers to make the hops in an IPA "pop" a little more? Maybe a GHB IPA?
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All that groks is God.
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daussaulit
Forgetful
Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,882
Loc: Earth
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin]
#16584888 - 07/25/12 10:47 AM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Calcium carbonate(chalk), calcium sulfate(gypsum), calcium chloride, magnesium sulfate(epsom salt), and sodium bicarbonate(baking soda) are occasionally used to adjust the pH and adjust the mineral content to achieve a more authentic desired beer stlye. These are all naturally occurring salts and can be found in certain water sources all over the world.
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Riboflavin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: daussaulit]
#16585581 - 07/25/12 01:20 PM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Yeah, I've often heard of adding gypsum to an ipa, haven't tried it though.
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All that groks is God.
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin]
#16589972 - 07/26/12 01:26 AM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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Fellow homebrewers?? ^ ^ nice!...
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16590191 - 07/26/12 02:16 AM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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MMmMmm fresh pressed apple juice
3.5L Simply Apple Juice in a 1 gallon jug
1/5 package of champagne yeast as directed per gallon
3.7g MSG (crystalline monosodium glutamate)
theoretically it should produce just over 2g of NaGHB, which is just about right for this amount of liquid...for a light weight
I'll be able to tell if it gets me more drunk than usual though.
*I'm experienced when it comes to drinking alcohol with GHB so I won't be dying or poisoning myself as I've seen mentioned
**also, you don't automatically get raped when you eat GHB, it actually feels quite nice, more euphoria than alcohol
Edited by teefizzle (07/26/12 02:29 AM)
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Nalim
aka. Nast
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16592241 - 07/26/12 02:10 PM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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I might try this out if I can sweet talk someone at the lab for some time with the tandem GC/MS and the compound library.
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[url=/forums/showflat.php/Number/16024421#16024421]WTB/WTT list!
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle] 1
#16607921 - 07/28/12 10:04 PM (9 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
**also, you don't automatically get raped when you eat GHB
then I will not be trying it
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Prisoner#1]
#16608624 - 07/29/12 01:44 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Teafizzle...that's insane. Let us know in the future ! Damn
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,648
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16609508 - 07/29/12 09:30 AM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Teafizzle...that's insane. Let us know in the future ! Damn
In the double blind test (like from drinking wood alcohol) you need a second "control" batch.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16610757 - 07/29/12 02:57 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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i dont, ive brewed numerous numerous times with this same method minus the msg
this is an experiment to further my knowledge, not yours anyway so butt out 
anyway, i have a big question from you brewing pros:
my understanding is champagne yeast is a pretty hyperactive fermenter, producing a lot more co2 quicker, but would it really die after only 4 dayS?
its no longer bubbling, so whats the point of leting it sit, the yeast has collected on the bottom as usual, so should i just filter it off, bottle it, and test it out or wait another 1 and 1/2 weeks?
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16610943 - 07/29/12 03:41 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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another way ill be able to tell is i will refrain from marijuana for several days before the bioassay on myelf
my thinking is ghb adds euphoria and when i drink minus thc, i get cranky and depressed
if there is in fact ghb in the drink i will notice euphoria
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Heffy
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16611064 - 07/29/12 04:05 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
my understanding is champagne yeast is a pretty hyperactive fermenter, producing a lot more co2 quicker, but would it really die after only 4 dayS?
its no longer bubbling, so whats the point of leting it sit, the yeast has collected on the bottom as usual, so should i just filter it off, bottle it, and test it out or wait another 1 and 1/2 weeks?
Most of your yeast doesn't "die" after fermentation, it just goes dormant.
Letting it sit is important to developing the right flavour profile. Depending on what is in the wort/must, yeast usually produces some unpleasant flavour compounds. Some of these will later be broken down or absorbed by the yeast. If you remove the yeast too early you will have no way to get rid of these flavour compounds.
Usually the rule of thumb with cider and mead is to let it age until it goes almost completely clear. In my experience with cider this takes maybe 1-3 weeks.
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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Riboflavin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Heffy]
#16611705 - 07/29/12 06:36 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Heffy said:
Quote:
my understanding is champagne yeast is a pretty hyperactive fermenter, producing a lot more co2 quicker, but would it really die after only 4 dayS?
its no longer bubbling, so whats the point of leting it sit, the yeast has collected on the bottom as usual, so should i just filter it off, bottle it, and test it out or wait another 1 and 1/2 weeks?
Most of your yeast doesn't "die" after fermentation, it just goes dormant.
Letting it sit is important to developing the right flavour profile. Depending on what is in the wort/must, yeast usually produces some unpleasant flavour compounds. Some of these will later be broken down or absorbed by the yeast. If you remove the yeast too early you will have no way to get rid of these flavour compounds.
Usually the rule of thumb with cider and mead is to let it age until it goes almost completely clear. In my experience with cider this takes maybe 1-3 weeks.
Yup, exactly. I actually dumped beers when I started because I was kegging too early and didn't realize how much the flavor profile will change as the yeast does it's work. Now if I get a funny tasting beer after kegging, I just put it aside for a couple more weeks and often time the flavor will continue to develop in part because of residual yeast in the keg.
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All that groks is God.
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 2,518
Loc: Jupiter 2
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin]
#16612167 - 07/29/12 08:02 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Yea man. The yeast will stop its action when it has either drown in alcohol or in your case, exhausted all its fermentable sugars. Champagne yeast has a high alcohol tolerance. Prime the bottles w corn sugar if you want sparkling.
@ riboflavin: I always use the "bottle conditioning" priming method for my kegs. Love the smooth texture and frothy head! I wait bout a month before cracking it
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Riboflavin
Registered: 03/06/05
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16612367 - 07/29/12 08:37 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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I usually leave mine at 30 psi for a couple days and call it good, unless I'm really hard up, in which case I draw off and fill a 2 liter and chill in freezer, afterwards I attach this device.
The carbonater, it fits on top of any 2 liter soda bottle and I shake and bake at 30 psi for a couple of minutes, not as good as letting it sit though. You can force carbonate, but you can't force age.
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All that groks is God.
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Heffy]
#16612488 - 07/29/12 08:57 PM (9 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Heffy said:
Quote:
my understanding is champagne yeast is a pretty hyperactive fermenter, producing a lot more co2 quicker, but would it really die after only 4 dayS?
its no longer bubbling, so whats the point of leting it sit, the yeast has collected on the bottom as usual, so should i just filter it off, bottle it, and test it out or wait another 1 and 1/2 weeks?
Most of your yeast doesn't "die" after fermentation, it just goes dormant.
Letting it sit is important to developing the right flavour profile. Depending on what is in the wort/must, yeast usually produces some unpleasant flavour compounds. Some of these will later be broken down or absorbed by the yeast. If you remove the yeast too early you will have no way to get rid of these flavour compounds.
Usually the rule of thumb with cider and mead is to let it age until it goes almost completely clear. In my experience with cider this takes maybe 1-3 weeks.
i can see your point, but it didnt start clear since it is real cider, not the see through motts stuff
any amendment?
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Posts: 10,648
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16615210 - 07/30/12 08:57 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
another way ill be able to tell is i will refrain from marijuana for several days before the bioassay on myelf
my thinking is ghb adds euphoria and when i drink minus thc, i get cranky and depressed
if there is in fact ghb in the drink i will notice euphoria
have some take out chinese food when you do the test that should intensify the MSG/GHB effect.
excitotoxins. lovely.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin]
#16616366 - 07/30/12 02:43 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Riboflavin said:
I usually leave mine at 30 psi for a couple days and call it good, unless I'm really hard up, in which case I draw off and fill a 2 liter and chill in freezer, afterwards I attach this device.
The carbonater, it fits on top of any 2 liter soda bottle and I shake and bake at 30 psi for a couple of minutes, not as good as letting it sit though. You can force carbonate, but you can't force age.
im not too interested in having it bubble, i got the champagne yeast for its efficiency, and since it's not beer, but cider, how does the taste develop?
would you say that letting apple cider sit longer makes for a better taste?
thanks
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,648
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16616406 - 07/30/12 02:56 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
Quote:
Riboflavin said:
I usually leave mine at 30 psi for a couple days and call it good, unless I'm really hard up, in which case I draw off and fill a 2 liter and chill in freezer, afterwards I attach this device.
The carbonater, it fits on top of any 2 liter soda bottle and I shake and bake at 30 psi for a couple of minutes, not as good as letting it sit though. You can force carbonate, but you can't force age.
im not too interested in having it bubble, i got the champagne yeast for its efficiency, and since it's not beer, but cider, how does the taste develop?
would you say that letting apple cider sit longer makes for a better taste?
thanks
in this case, no.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16616534 - 07/30/12 03:36 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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before i filter my brew now, can you assure me more without laughing
i feel like you may be playing a joke on me ahha
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Heffy
BrauMeister
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,751
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 2 days, 40 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16616848 - 07/30/12 04:35 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
Quote:
Heffy said:
Quote:
my understanding is champagne yeast is a pretty hyperactive fermenter, producing a lot more co2 quicker, but would it really die after only 4 dayS?
its no longer bubbling, so whats the point of leting it sit, the yeast has collected on the bottom as usual, so should i just filter it off, bottle it, and test it out or wait another 1 and 1/2 weeks?
Most of your yeast doesn't "die" after fermentation, it just goes dormant.
Letting it sit is important to developing the right flavour profile. Depending on what is in the wort/must, yeast usually produces some unpleasant flavour compounds. Some of these will later be broken down or absorbed by the yeast. If you remove the yeast too early you will have no way to get rid of these flavour compounds.
Usually the rule of thumb with cider and mead is to let it age until it goes almost completely clear. In my experience with cider this takes maybe 1-3 weeks.
i can see your point, but it didnt start clear since it is real cider, not the see through motts stuff
any amendment?
I've only used real cider once before so my experience is limited. I found that it did not produce a desirable flavour, and it did not come clear. This might have been from problems with my method or process. If I were you I would filter it, or use a fining agent to clarify before bottling.
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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Riboflavin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16617458 - 07/30/12 06:13 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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I can't speak for cider, but with most fermentation, wine, beer, meed, the right amount of time is key. I guess some of it would depend if your cider is cloudy just because it's real cider, or because the yeast hasn't flocculated out yet. I mostly do beer, but I find that it can have a rather yeasty flavor if I haven't let it drop out of Quote:
teefizzle said:
Quote:
Riboflavin said:
I usually leave mine at 30 psi for a couple days and call it good, unless I'm really hard up, in which case I draw off and fill a 2 liter and chill in freezer, afterwards I attach this device.
The carbonater, it fits on top of any 2 liter soda bottle and I shake and bake at 30 psi for a couple of minutes, not as good as letting it sit though. You can force carbonate, but you can't force age.
im not too interested in having it bubble, i got the champagne yeast for its efficiency, and since it's not beer, but cider, how does the taste develop?
would you say that letting apple cider sit longer makes for a better taste?
thanks
Ok, one example would be if I keg and my brew tastes cloyingly sweet, well I know there's still some yeast in there, so I set that keg off to the side for a month or so and hope the residual yeast will eat away at some of those sugars, I believe it can also help the yeast eat up acetaldehyde, though I'm not very well versed in the specifics, if you're the sort that really likes to geek out on what's going on in the fermentation, John Palmer's "How to Brew" is an excellent book.
I can't speak for cider, but with most fermentation, wine, beer, meed, the right amount of time is key. I guess some of it would depend if your cider is cloudy just because it's real cider, or because the yeast hasn't flocculated out yet. I mostly do beer, but I find that it can have a rather yeasty flavor if I haven't let it drop out of suspension. If you're feeling antsy, you can always sanitize your racking cane and thief some out, not the best practice to do too often as it introduces oxygen and can cause a bit of oxidation.
I haven't started my own experiment with any of this yet but am very curious to see what happens with this, if having the msg in there will affect any other aspects of the fermentation.
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All that groks is God.
Edited by Riboflavin (07/30/12 06:19 PM)
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,648
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16617629 - 07/30/12 06:46 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
before i filter my brew now, can you assure me more without laughing
i feel like you may be playing a joke on me ahha
who me? i am trying to protect you.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080211075056AAWotqw
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 2,518
Loc: Jupiter 2
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16617783 - 07/30/12 07:13 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Yea I've had no luck with apple products yet. Well...I gave up on apples actually
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,648
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16617989 - 07/30/12 07:50 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Oeric McKenna said:
Yea I've had no luck with apple products yet. Well...I gave up on apples actually
I've got a very full 6 gallon carboy of going on two year cyser that I added a little spice cinnamon and vanilla to. Haven't touched it. It was a pasteurized cider so I added it cold. Fermented well. I don't even recall the yeast. Probably pretty good stuff the cider was tasty although I don't know how such things age.
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (07/30/12 07:52 PM)
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
Registered: 06/15/12
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Loc: Jupiter 2
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16618661 - 07/30/12 09:58 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Damn....2 years?? Wow. Time to bottle! Haha I hope its good man.
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Oeric McKenna
shredder
Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 2,518
Loc: Jupiter 2
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16618668 - 07/30/12 10:00 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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This forum section needs a brew thread sticky for recipes, notes pics ect. I'd love to rallly up alll the brewers on here! Hell yes
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM
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Loc: fuckin Mars man
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Oeric McKenna]
#16618921 - 07/30/12 10:43 PM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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I've been a dope and talked about my homebrew in the pub, only to realize we had our own section once this thread came about!
I've got an extra carboy I picked up not to long ago. I'll have to fish out some MSG and try some nice hard cider!
This may be getting off topic a bit, but anyone play with moonshine? I had my first couple swigs of legit moonshine this weekend. I was feelin good!
I didn't get to talk to the distiller, my friends pointed him out but he didn't know who I was so I didn't want to be poking around other people's business. I know I get a little anxious if some friend of a friend of a friend walks up to me and ask specifics... Anyway I kept thinking of this thread and if it was a corn based mash or not. I was too drunk to tell if that had any extra "punch" besides being high proof alcohol.
That was one sexy cougar walkin around with the jar though. So many distractions 
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The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16619410 - 07/31/12 12:06 AM (9 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
teefizzle said:
before i filter my brew now, can you assure me more without laughing
i feel like you may be playing a joke on me ahha
who me? i am trying to protect you.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080211075056AAWotqw
dont troll me fool haha
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,648
Loc: The Hand
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16620894 - 07/31/12 09:42 AM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
teefizzle said:
before i filter my brew now, can you assure me more without laughing
i feel like you may be playing a joke on me ahha
who me? i am trying to protect you.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080211075056AAWotqw
dont troll me fool haha
i'm not joking. this is my job!
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-n_RQbm2YJhYbu/animal_house_1978_teaching_about_milton_in_class/
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Don't submit to dogma.
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16622091 - 07/31/12 02:33 PM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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filtered the cider using a mesh strainer with a coffee filter inside, then capped it and put it in the fridge because I find it best served cold.
Being confident that it smelled as it should, I scooped a generous dab of the spent yeast into my mouth and it didnt taste bad at all, just mild yeast flavor.
*what kind of spices do you guys put in your cider to make it taste better?
it's not sour or bitter anything but it just needs some sweetness or maybe cinnamon
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Riboflavin
Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,371
Loc: Midwestish
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: LunarEclipse]
#16624180 - 07/31/12 08:07 PM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
teefizzle said:
before i filter my brew now, can you assure me more without laughing
i feel like you may be playing a joke on me ahha
who me? i am trying to protect you.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080211075056AAWotqw
"Back when I was a fresh fish in college, we and my new "friends" were drinking. There was a girl with us. We wanted this girl to pass out so we could do the train (I know that was sick and I know better now).
We were doin shots and I go after the girl, w/c means much of the residue from the MSG are still on the glass and I got to ingest it instead. What happened to me? I was knocked the F*CK out! And I had the worst hangover I ever experienced.
Dont do it."
Someone seriously tried to date rape with msg? 
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All that groks is God.
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin]
#16624215 - 07/31/12 08:13 PM (9 months, 13 days ago) |
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amateurs 
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Heffy
BrauMeister
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 2,751
Loc: International Traveller
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16629488 - 08/01/12 07:15 PM (9 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
filtered the cider using a mesh strainer with a coffee filter inside, then capped it and put it in the fridge because I find it best served cold.
Being confident that it smelled as it should, I scooped a generous dab of the spent yeast into my mouth and it didnt taste bad at all, just mild yeast flavor.
*what kind of spices do you guys put in your cider to make it taste better?
it's not sour or bitter anything but it just needs some sweetness or maybe cinnamon
I wouldn't filter like this in future. Oxygen ingress can cause off flavours. Most home-brewers use clarifying agents, most pro brewers use inline filtering in a nitrogen/co2 atmosphere.
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Heffy]
#16630698 - 08/01/12 10:53 PM (9 months, 12 days ago) |
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if you hold that knowledge, i hold you responsible for not telling me prior to my filtering.
shame on you Heffy.
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Riboflavin
Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,371
Loc: Midwestish
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16634949 - 08/02/12 06:50 PM (9 months, 11 days ago) |
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Sounds like it can take a bit for oxidation to kick in...
from this forum
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/severe-effects-oxidation-196663/
"I had an Irish Red that went bad because of oxidation. Musty, cardboard, stale odor and flavor. It took a couple of months before it showed up though. Had some air leaking in my bottling wand.
My advice to the OP is to have a party, drink it fast, then re-brew!"
I looked this up because I heard something similar on a beer podcast.
Bottoms up!  
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All that groks is God.
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Wiccan_Seeker
gold foil hat admin
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Riboflavin]
#16646352 - 08/05/12 11:32 AM (9 months, 8 days ago) |
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GUYS!!
I just got a PM that contained the following exerpt, from a known user who wishes to remain anonymous:
Quote:
I fermented apple juice with 1g/L MSG using Young's Cider Yeast.
I tried the turbo cider the other day with another person and it appears to work. Initially we drank one pint quite quickly. Within a few minutes the euphoria hit, it didn't feel like alcohol at all, more clearheaded and stimulating. We were very talkative and fairly buzzed, it felt like the come up from an mdxx drug. I have a very high tolerance to alcohol so I don't think it was the alcohol effects or placebo. The person who took it with me has taken GBL before and said it felt the same, I have no experience with GHB or GBL so had nothing to measure the experience against.
Also the MSG at that concentration didn't give any detectable salty taste, if anything it might have made the cider taste more "appley". We are fairly certain the experience was due to the presence of GHB and not a placebo effect although I'm looking forward to hearing of other peoples experiences with it.
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16647417 - 08/05/12 03:47 PM (9 months, 8 days ago) |
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Awesome!!! Can't wait to try this!
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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geokills
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16650985 - 08/06/12 01:46 AM (9 months, 7 days ago) |
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Hell yeah! 
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┼ ··∙ long live the shroomery ∙·· ┼
...╬π╥ ╥π╬...
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16654449 - 08/06/12 05:45 PM (9 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
GUYS!!
I just got a PM that contained the following exerpt, from a known user who wishes to remain anonymous:
Quote:
I fermented apple juice with 1g/L MSG using Young's Cider Yeast.
I tried the turbo cider the other day with another person and it appears to work. Initially we drank one pint quite quickly. Within a few minutes the euphoria hit, it didn't feel like alcohol at all, more clearheaded and stimulating. We were very talkative and fairly buzzed, it felt like the come up from an mdxx drug. I have a very high tolerance to alcohol so I don't think it was the alcohol effects or placebo. The person who took it with me has taken GBL before and said it felt the same, I have no experience with GHB or GBL so had nothing to measure the experience against.
Also the MSG at that concentration didn't give any detectable salty taste, if anything it might have made the cider taste more "appley". We are fairly certain the experience was due to the presence of GHB and not a placebo effect although I'm looking forward to hearing of other peoples experiences with it.
after drinking some cider myself last night of the same concentration I can confirm that I did in fact feel buzzed from just one glass of cider.
i also recognized the unique ghb euphoria you get, but more like the times ive had GBL.
i really dont wanna bother with screwing around with apples any longer, i need something pure i can look at! 
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naum
Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 3,052
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#16667780 - 08/08/12 09:49 PM (9 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
after drinking some cider myself last night of the same concentration I can confirm that I did in fact feel buzzed from just one glass of cider.
Unfortunately 1 pint of hard cider without MSG gives me a pretty strong buzz especially if some sort of other ferment able was added to the initial ferment. I'd love to see some instrumental proof...
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teefizzle
Flwr Pwr
Registered: 04/19/07
Posts: 14,356
Loc: Necropolis
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: naum]
#16670649 - 08/09/12 01:20 PM (9 months, 4 days ago) |
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why would you assume i consumed an entire pint? it was less than a volumetric CUP of liquid and i didnt even finish it all
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daussaulit
Forgetful
Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 2,882
Loc: Earth
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16673818 - 08/09/12 11:39 PM (9 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
GUYS!!
I just got a PM that contained the following exerpt, from a known user who wishes to remain anonymous:
Quote:
I fermented apple juice with 1g/L MSG using Young's Cider Yeast.
I tried the turbo cider the other day with another person and it appears to work. Initially we drank one pint quite quickly. Within a few minutes the euphoria hit, it didn't feel like alcohol at all, more clearheaded and stimulating. We were very talkative and fairly buzzed, it felt like the come up from an mdxx drug. I have a very high tolerance to alcohol so I don't think it was the alcohol effects or placebo. The person who took it with me has taken GBL before and said it felt the same, I have no experience with GHB or GBL so had nothing to measure the experience against.
Also the MSG at that concentration didn't give any detectable salty taste, if anything it might have made the cider taste more "appley". We are fairly certain the experience was due to the presence of GHB and not a placebo effect although I'm looking forward to hearing of other peoples experiences with it.
Did that brewer tell the other person about this before they drank? If they did, the results are probably skewed.
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM
Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 666
Loc: fuckin Mars man
Last seen: 1 hour, 37 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: daussaulit]
#16675366 - 08/10/12 10:01 AM (9 months, 3 days ago) |
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I've got a gallon of apple cider brewing. 400g of sugar in the apple juice - Musselmans to be exact - and I added another 200g of cane sugar to get my S.G. up to 1.070. Added 4g of MSG in there too. Threw it in a small fermenter on Wednesday eve with a gram of Lavlin ICV-D47 yeast.
She's bubbling away!
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The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: FunnyLight]
#16675641 - 08/10/12 11:40 AM (9 months, 3 days ago) |
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Just got all the materials! Found the MSG in the spices isle of my local grocery store.
I'll be making two batches of apfelwein - one with the MSG added, one with only DAP added (I usually use it as a yeast nutrient in my wines). Both batches will be started and bottled at the exact same time. I will leave one bottle of each unmarked, and attempt a blind tasting on myself using the exact same amount of each. I'll even time myself so that I drink the same amount in the same time. I plan on leaving at least 4 hours between drinks to let the effect wear off - though I may leave a full day between them.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Infinitys Minute
a universe inside each moment
Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1,607
Loc: Zion 
Last seen: 15 hours, 15 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: trendal]
#16679554 - 08/11/12 12:10 AM (9 months, 3 days ago) |
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I have used this mead calculator to calculate that my finished mead will be 16.68%.
The yeast I used dies at 18%abv according to the packaging, so does that mean that all of the sugars in the mix will ferment out completely and the mead will be very dry? Or is 16.68% a best case scenario and it is more likely the yeast will run out of some other nutrient first and finish fermenting with sugars still in the mix and end up at 12%abv or something?
My mix (if it matters); 22L spring water, 9kg honey, 8 oranges, 200 raisins, ~28g (6 large) cinnamon quills, 6 whole cloves, 45g MSG, 8g wine yeast.
Thanks in advance to anyone who enlightens me - this is my first time brewing anything.
EDIT: 16.68%abv is incorrect, I input the volume as 22L but the real volume includes the volume of the honey so it's probably more like 13-15%abv and 1g/L GBL.
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All my posts are completely fictional and are for entertainment purposes only, images I post are sourced from search engines and and image hosting sites are not my own.
 
Edited by Infinitys Minute (08/11/12 06:11 AM)
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Infinitys Minute]
#16680627 - 08/11/12 08:00 AM (9 months, 2 days ago) |
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You shouldn't have any problems with nutrients...not with all the actual fruit in there! Nutrients are only really good for yeast reproducing anyway, and that happens during the first few hours to the first few days after pitching. Once they have enough numbers available they tend to start producing alcohol (analogous to respiration) and sill continue to do so until all the sugar is gone or they reach their limit for alcohol tolerance. I would expect around 16-17% when you are all done!
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Infinitys Minute
a universe inside each moment
Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1,607
Loc: Zion
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: trendal]
#16684932 - 08/12/12 01:07 AM (9 months, 1 day ago) |
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Thank you very much!
Should be easy (as far as I know) to calculate how much ethanol should has been produced from a known amount of honey with a known sugar content now that I know it should ferment to completion - so as soon as it's done and I can separate the mead from the fruit I will know the volume of mead I have and will be able to work out the percentage of alcohol and the concentration of GHB/GBL.
This is quite exciting business for me and I'm a numbers guy, so yeah 
The mead will be very dry if all of the sugar ferments out of it - I will likely experiment with sweetening. After it clears and the yeast sinks and I seperate the mead from the yeast, then sweeten with a fermentable sugar like honey will residual yeast cause it to ferment a little more in the bottle, losing more sweetness over time and gaining slight carbonation?
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trendal
point of inflection
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Infinitys Minute]
#16686407 - 08/12/12 10:08 AM (9 months, 1 day ago) |
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I would wait on the back-sweetening...honey has quite a lot of non-fermentable sugars in it, and a lot of that sweetness comes through in a mead!
There will always be yeast cells in your mead, unless you filter it. So adding more honey will bring those few cells out of hibernation and start the fermentation again. There's a couple routes you could go: use a wine stabilizer to kill off the yeast, or let the alcohol get high enough to kill the yeast. Both have their ups and downs - taste vs. alcohol %, basically.
If I were you I'd wait...you can always back-sweeten later 
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HeathL
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#16947595 - 10/01/12 09:04 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Wow, what a fascinating thread to stumble upon. On the shroomery no less. Boy has this place changed in 10 years. My random hobbies seem to have come full circle.
Ok, not having credentials to read what appears to be the chem forum yet, correct me if this has been addressed somewhere or if I'm completely off base.
My (very) little research into the subject moments ago have left me with the impression that synthetic routes of MSG to GHB use GABA as an intermediate. I see we are getting NaGHB in theory here and I'm not sure the route of the biological process at all, but could GABA be substituted to get our little yeasties a little closer to a finished product? Maybe with improved results?
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"When God created Republicans, he gave up on everything else." - Frank Zappa, 1984.
"Let there be light." - Lemmy Kilmister, the begining of time.
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Ulfrick
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: trendal]
#16947758 - 10/01/12 09:26 PM (7 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
I would wait on the back-sweetening...honey has quite a lot of non-fermentable sugars in it, and a lot of that sweetness comes through in a mead!
There will always be yeast cells in your mead, unless you filter it. So adding more honey will bring those few cells out of hibernation and start the fermentation again. There's a couple routes you could go: use a wine stabilizer to kill off the yeast, or let the alcohol get high enough to kill the yeast. Both have their ups and downs - taste vs. alcohol %, basically.
If I were you I'd wait...you can always back-sweeten later
I definitely agree with this one, my first attempt at making "mead" ended up being so damn sweet I was worried i'd kill diabetics if I drank it in public. def doesn't require any additional sweetening.
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Wiccan_Seeker
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: HeathL]
#17012074 - 10/11/12 03:52 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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In the Chem forum the consensus is that the technique works. People use up to 5 grams MSG per liter and a member who drank a pint or two of that strength in apple juice ended up blacking out, so be careful, with high MSG this will yield a POTENT drug!
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HeathL
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17013016 - 10/11/12 05:51 PM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
In the Chem forum the consensus is that the technique works. People use up to 5 grams MSG per liter and a member who drank a pint or two of that strength in apple juice ended up blacking out, so be careful, with high MSG this will yield a POTENT drug!
Interesting. The earlier post made me think it's production was linked to the ethanol production. Is it safe to say that pretty much whatever get's put in (MSG wise) will be processed assuming the yeast are healthy and active?
Also, has anyone shown any signs of the MSG symptom complex implying unprocessed MSG in significant amounts?
Quote:
The MSC is a group of symptoms that can occur in many people after the consumption of fairly large amounts of MSG. In susceptible individuals the MSC is most likely to occur about 15 to 25 minutes after the consumption of at least 2-3g of MSG without solid food and on an empty stomach. Typical symptoms such as a burning or heat sensation in the face, neck and upper torso may be accompanied by a feeling of tightness or stiffness in the chest, arms and/or back. There may also be a feeling of weakness, heart palpitations, and diffuse pain in the chest area. These symptoms typically begin to subside within 20 to 30 minutes after they start. Typically the MSC is gone completely within an hour and never last as long as two hours.#
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"When God created Republicans, he gave up on everything else." - Frank Zappa, 1984.
"Let there be light." - Lemmy Kilmister, the begining of time.
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wurrgit
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: HeathL]
#17099479 - 10/25/12 04:19 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Hey guys!
Yesterday i started a cider kit brew, its supposed to come to 5% when done but ive added some honey, a bit of sugar, some ginger and roasted oak shavings.
Should give a few more % as well as a bit extra taste to it since from what ive read the kits arent really that awesome.
Its split into two vessels of 10 litres each and one of them has had 10g of ajinomoto added to see if i can get any additional intoxication out of this 
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ToolTroll
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17128017 - 10/30/12 01:16 AM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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I just read this thread and the one in Chem/Pharm. Wow! I am totally going to try this. GHBeer! I have never done GHB, but I had a friend who really liked it, and I once worked with a guy who made his own. Really, the thought of more euphoric beer is great. Drink less, feel better. Sure! I think a lot of the brewers are worried about the taste, but according to some of the reports, that's not a problem. Thank you Wiccan for starting these threads and furthering this discussion. I look forward to concocting special batches of wine and beer, with labels on them warning not to drink too many...
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
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You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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Ulfrick
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17134507 - 10/31/12 02:23 AM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
ToolTroll said:
I just read this thread and the one in Chem/Pharm. Wow! I am totally going to try this. GHBeer! I have never done GHB, but I had a friend who really liked it, and I once worked with a guy who made his own. Really, the thought of more euphoric beer is great. Drink less, feel better. Sure! I think a lot of the brewers are worried about the taste, but according to some of the reports, that's not a problem. Thank you Wiccan for starting these threads and furthering this discussion. I look forward to concocting special batches of wine and beer, with labels on them warning not to drink too many...
If your worried about the taste just make sure to use a really nice dark stout. the roasted taste should help overwhelm any taste imparted by the GHB... Also keep in mind that GHB is one of the chemicals that can naturally occur in some forms of beer (although in minute quantities)
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NizzyJones
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: HeathL]
#17141456 - 11/01/12 12:08 PM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Also, has anyone shown any signs of the MSG symptom complex implying unprocessed MSG in significant amounts?
As your quote there says that would require pretty significant amounts to be unprocessed, upwards of 50% even in the 4-5 g/L brews. Even though people have used up to 5 g/L most tests have been closer to the 1 g/L figure Wiccan originally mentioned and drinking a liter of GHB-infused brew is probably the maximum reasonable dose for a night, as mentioned above someone blacked out on something in the neighborhood of a liter of the strong (5 g/L) stuff.
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ToolTroll
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17210531 - 11/13/12 01:28 AM (6 months, 1 day ago) |
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Started a batch today with the following recipe:
3.8 L Pasteurized Apple Juice (not from concentrate with ascorbic acid)
1 cup fresh Ginger tea
12 grams MSG
1/4 packet wine yeast (Lalvin D47)
That is approximately a 3g/L concentration.
I also started a smaller batch for control. I normally make my cider stronger by adding white sugar, but I didn't want this to be too strong of a brew, so I went with straight apple juice. I will drink some of the control batch ahead of time to gauge the potency. 
In the thread in Chem & Pharm, poster sonamdrukpa brews up a couple batches with a tiny amount of sugar and a fair amount of MSG, and achieves results. I am super stoked about the possibilities here! Imagine a lightly alcoholic drink with Sacred Lotus Flower and GHB in it. One is all you need!
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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teefizzle
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17223891 - 11/15/12 01:44 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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if that all gets processed that stuff sounds like it's going to put you down
*how much better does it taste with not from concentrate juice?
Edited by teefizzle (11/15/12 01:45 PM)
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ToolTroll
tourettic
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#17225370 - 11/15/12 07:26 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
teefizzle said:
if that all gets processed that stuff sounds like it's going to put you down
*how much better does it taste with not from concentrate juice?
Ha! I'm going to bottle into regular beer bottles, but probably split one with my girlfriend for the first test... I don't want to black out just yet.
The not from concentrate is a little better tasting, but not by much. I generally just get the cheapest 100% juice I can get, and this time it happened to be not from concentrate. I get it for a dollar a quart.
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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Spiderbaby
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17225565 - 11/15/12 08:00 PM (5 months, 30 days ago) |
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I've just given up on that stuff, way too many blackouts followed by awful hangovers. Granted I was drinking at least a 750mL bottle of 9% rough cider with 5g/L MSG in it along with whatever other booze I would be drinking.
Might try it again in a couple of months but be sensible with it this time, and probably won't use cheap apple juice as the base fermentable, it always gives manky hangovers
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NizzyJones
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Spiderbaby]
#17236120 - 11/17/12 05:12 PM (5 months, 28 days ago) |
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I think it's the GHB that makes the hangover suck as much as anything. Even my batch of mead at 1g/L MSG was pretty rough in the morning if you had more than one or two and it struck me as having a different quality from alcohol hangovers alone. The synergy with a bowl of grass along with carefully enforced moderation is probably the best approach.
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Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home
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Cyans
mfmulcher
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: NizzyJones]
#17238473 - 11/18/12 02:16 AM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Pretty new brewer here but this thread made my day. Yeasties just are some impressive little critters
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hunting All kinds of stuff on the coast range
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Wiccan_Seeker
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17240541 - 11/18/12 02:53 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Guys, it's time to spread the word about MSG and brewing.
Tell homebrewing friends, post about it in drug & homebrewing forums wherever appropriate.
This thing WORKS and we can either let it slip into obscurity or have it become a new emerging drug trend started right here on the Shroomery.
I do believe the world would be a better place with more homemade "GHB Beer" in it. Getting high by the fruits of your labor or that of a friend, independent on criminals to supply your drug or drug cops to control and bust you.
Spread the message around the wwworld!
It appears, the Genie is already out of the bottle!
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hidenseek
loafter
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17240629 - 11/18/12 03:08 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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is it really a good idea to teach people to make a date rape drug
plus maybe this has something to do with the hangovers you people say it creates
Quote:
Combination with alcohol
In humans, GHB has been shown to inhibit the elimination rate of alcohol. This may explain the respiratory arrest that has been reported after ingestion of both drugs.[25] A review of the details of 194 deaths attributed to or related to GHB over a ten-year period found that most were from respiratory depression caused by interaction with alcohol or other drugs.[26]
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teefizzle
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17240776 - 11/18/12 03:31 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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off your high horse, you.
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hidenseek
loafter
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#17240785 - 11/18/12 03:33 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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i was just pointing out the obvious, plus isnt purposely making ghb illegal?
why dont some just make a tek for extracting it from our wine
what happens if you distill this wine into something stronger?
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Wiccan_Seeker
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17240799 - 11/18/12 03:36 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Is this freevibe? Date rape drug? Oh please, there are no date rape drugs, only date rape people. Date rape people in 99.9% of cases use a mixture of alcohol and persuasion.
Slowing the elimination of alcohol is a good thing, slowing the elimination of acetaldehyde is a bad thing.
The combination of low dose Alc/GHB is very popular in the real world, it conserves on both ingredients.
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ToolTroll
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17241097 - 11/18/12 04:24 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:
plus maybe this has something to do with the hangovers you people say it creates
I think the couple people who posted about the hangovers were just overdoing it. Moderation is the key here. This isn't something you drink after you finish off the 18-pack of Natty Light, it's more of a planned dose that requires some self-restraint. I also really like the idea of really low alcohol GHBeers ala sonamdrukpa.
Quote:
hidenseek said:
i was just pointing out the obvious, plus isnt purposely making ghb illegal?
Oh No! 
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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hidenseek
loafter
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17243130 - 11/18/12 09:47 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Is this freevibe? Date rape drug? Oh please, there are no date rape drugs, only date rape people. Date rape people in 99.9% of cases use a mixture of alcohol and persuasion.
.
thats sorta my point spreading the word you can make ghb alcohol that you can black out on easier over the internet wherever possible will end up in bad hands
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Guys, it's time to spread the word about MSG and brewing.
Tell homebrewing friends, post about it in drug & homebrewing forums wherever appropriate.
i like spreading knowledge but this seems like some pretty powerful knowledge to me
im glad i slowed my drinking down 10 fold, because 2 years ago, i would have made batch over batch of this stuff as strong as possible and given it to all sorts of people, who knows what they would of done with it
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ToolTroll
tourettic
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17243156 - 11/18/12 09:51 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:2 years ago, i would have made batch over batch of this stuff as strong as possible and given it to all sorts of people, who knows what they would of done with it
There's a difference between spreading information freely and giving out intoxicants to people. But prohibition doesn't help.
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"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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hidenseek
loafter
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17243188 - 11/18/12 09:57 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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i think im just missing the point, its a neat chemistry trick, but you have to watch how much you drink, why not just make normal wine that you dont have to worry about if you had 1 cup too much
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teefizzle
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: hidenseek]
#17243668 - 11/18/12 11:17 PM (5 months, 27 days ago) |
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same idea behind stronger weed in my opinion, just smoke/drink less for a higher quality experience.
technically we should all be responsible adults if we're brewing alcoholic beverages?
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Cyans
mfmulcher
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: teefizzle]
#17247869 - 11/19/12 07:36 PM (5 months, 26 days ago) |
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I am going to share this on a couple of the home brew forums and see what the guys over there think. Bet I will get some interesting comments. Need to do a GHBrew so I can get some street cred first
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hunting All kinds of stuff on the coast range
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Fronnis
Only in dreams
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Cyans]
#17252185 - 11/20/12 02:11 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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I'll be attempting a gallon of apfelwein with 2g/l MSG asap.
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chemfreak
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Fronnis]
#17252968 - 11/20/12 04:36 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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Hi,
I made an account in the Shroomery just to be able to reply to this thread. I more usually post in bluelight.ru with username 'polymath'.
I can't access the chem forum where the theory behind the 'GHB brew' is discussed, but the hypothesis is probably based on the 'Ehrlich pathway' of amino acid metabolism by yeast. The Ehrlich mechanism removes a carboxyl group from an amino acid and replaces the amino group with a hydroxyl, producing fusel alcohols, like amyl alcohol from leucine and tryptophol from tryptophan. By the same logic, glutamate should turn into GHB in a fermenting sugar solution...
Unfortunately, yeast doesn't seem to metabolize glutamate in the same way it does other amino acids. I digged up some journal articles about fermentation of sugar with glutamate as the sole nitrogen source, and all of them talk about glutamate being metabolized to 2-ketoglutarate and succinic acid, with no mention about GHB being formed. The sources are
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8795209
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12949191
In other words, there's no scientific evidence that this method works. I don't believe that GHB is formed in this kind of a homebrew unless someone actually tests positive for GHB in a drug test after drinking the stuff.
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Spiderbaby
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: chemfreak]
#17253818 - 11/20/12 07:10 PM (5 months, 25 days ago) |
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Yeah you are correct in that glutamate can be used in the biosynthesis of α-ketoglutarate (2-ketoglutarate) which is an essential TCA intermediate. However that does not mean this is the only enzymatic reaction it can undergo.
These papers both used glutamate as the sole source of nitrogen so the synthesis of α-ketoglutarate from glutamate was probably the most active pathway of glutamate metabolism as it is the most important. Adding an excess of glutamate to an otherwise balanced growth medium likely allows glutamate to be metabolised via other 'novel' pathways.
Also as for scientific evidence demonstrating this method works, you are again correct but there is evidence that GBL is produced naturally in wine,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11569560 BAM!
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chemfreak
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Spiderbaby]
#17256496 - 11/21/12 03:35 AM (5 months, 24 days ago) |
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Here's a paper about another experiment where gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) was added to a fermenting liquid:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704823/
Quote:
The γ-aminobutyrate (GABA) shunt, an alternative route for the conversion of α-ketoglutarate to succinate, involves the glutamate decarboxylase Gad1p, the GABA transaminase Uga1p and the succinate semialdehyde dehydrogenase Uga2p. This pathway has been extensively described in plants and animals, but its function in yeast remains unclear. We show that the flux through Gad1p is insignificant during fermentation in rich sugar-containing medium, excluding a role for this pathway in redox homeostasis under anaerobic conditions or sugar stress. However, we found that up to 4 g of exogenous GABA/liter was efficiently consumed by yeast. We studied the fate of this consumed GABA. Most was converted into succinate, with a reaction yield of 0.7 mol/mol. We also showed that a large proportion of GABA was stored within cells, indicating a possible role for this molecule in stress tolerance mechanisms or nitrogen storage. Furthermore, based on enzymatic and metabolic evidence, we identified an alternative route for GABA catabolism, involving the reduction of succinate-semialdehyde into γ-hydroxybutyric acid and the polymerization of γ-hydroxybutyric acid to form poly-(3-hydroxybutyric acid-co-4-hydroxybutyric acid). This study provides the first demonstration of a native route for the formation of this polymer in yeast. Our findings shed new light on the GABA pathway and open up new opportunities for industrial applications.
So it looks like 70% of the GABA was converted to succinate, but also some GHB was created in polymerized form. Obviously the polymer would hydrolyze back to GHB if ingested.
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atomicshaman
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17256506 - 11/21/12 03:39 AM (5 months, 24 days ago) |
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just posting so i can read it all later ,
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 atomicshaman is a bad machine being sent back to the factory for minor adjustments:
  
i have stapelia variegata and zygocactus cuttings for trade {au}
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Cyans
mfmulcher
Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Left Coast
Last seen: 2 months, 4 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: atomicshaman]
#17261976 - 11/22/12 02:02 AM (5 months, 23 days ago) |
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Homebrewer Keeping my eye on this one
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hunting All kinds of stuff on the coast range
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atomicshaman
in love with a dream
Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 2,295
Loc: germany
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17271312 - 11/23/12 11:36 PM (5 months, 21 days ago) |
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my friend , the dmt elf has agreed to attempt this nonsense but doesnt have scales to measure the msg.
does anyone know how to roughly measure a gram using a tablespoon or other sized spoon?
and would if be benificial to furthur crush the stuff , and will he need to simply add it to wort while simmering or add it once wort has cooled?
the elf thanks you.
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atomicshaman is a bad machine being sent back to the factory for minor adjustments:
i have stapelia variegata and zygocactus cuttings for trade {au}
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: atomicshaman]
#17272626 - 11/24/12 09:39 AM (5 months, 21 days ago) |
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1 teaspoon MSG ~ 8g
You want about 1/2 tsp per gallon of must.
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Wiccan_Seeker
gold foil hat admin
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Posts: 33,529
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: chemfreak]
#17273598 - 11/24/12 02:34 PM (5 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
So it looks like 70% of the GABA was converted to succinate
GABA is not an alpha-amino acid so the way yeast enzymatically approaches it is different.
ketoglutaric acid and succinic acid are low toxicity Krebs Cycle diacids that do not produce a GHB-type intoxication, nor is synergistic effect with alcohol expected behavior of these cellular nutrients.
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dstark
Manifesting Minds
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Posts: 3,734
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17290238 - 11/27/12 02:03 PM (5 months, 18 days ago) |
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Who knew such forum could approve such a drug related matter!
My friend hopefully will start a batch:))
And yeah its a bump, anyone keeps enjoying GHB brews? Any negative things lately??
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What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?
~I Feel at Home~
.:SanPedro Preparation:. 
.:HashBrownies Preparation:. 
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FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: dstark]
#17293182 - 11/27/12 10:14 PM (5 months, 18 days ago) |
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They're fuckin strong!
ahaha, I've laid off the drinking for a bit. But I can tell you the batch of simple cider that I brewed months ago (back in mid August?) has aged quite nicely!
It's a potent brew to begin with being ~10%. But the added G makes it a real 1 glass buzzer! heyooo I love beer!
just picked up an Monastary Abbey to brew up! Should be ready right in time for Christmas and new years!
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The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill.
J. Bronowski
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atomicshaman
in love with a dream
Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 2,295
Loc: germany
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: FunnyLight]
#17294801 - 11/28/12 02:32 AM (5 months, 17 days ago) |
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what would happen if someone went 8g per kilo of sugars?
would it make it stonger or just a salty mess?
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atomicshaman is a bad machine being sent back to the factory for minor adjustments:
i have stapelia variegata and zygocactus cuttings for trade {au}
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tinseltown
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: atomicshaman]
#17300928 - 11/29/12 02:00 AM (5 months, 16 days ago) |
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Is this possible without ethanol?
Say, could I get GHB from just water, MSG, and yeast?
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nearhorn
A Schneeple
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 337
Loc: Montana
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: tinseltown]
#17303287 - 11/29/12 03:49 PM (5 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
tinseltown said:
Is this possible without ethanol?
Say, could I get GHB from just water, MSG, and yeast?
You need the sugar to atleast make it ferment from what i have figured. Well dso if i got 5 lbs of sugar, 3 cups of water, the msg, and the yeast will the work? Im guessing it will because it is still fermenting, or do you need the hops or fruits?
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Can't we all just get a bong?
"I am the universe" - Michael John DeLaRosa III
  
Marijuana. LSD. MDMA. Mescaline. Psilocybin/Psilocin. 5-MeO-DMT. Alcohol. Opiate Based Drug. Salvia Divinorum. Cocaine. BZO.
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catman123
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: nearhorn]
#17415897 - 12/19/12 08:40 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Hi, long time lurker first time poster here (registered just to ask this), has anyone confirmed that this actually makes ghb in sufficient quantities?
I tried it with turboyeast + msg + sugar and while it certainly makes you drunk. But I'm not really sure if it's from alcohol or ghb (ghb feels the same as alcohol for me). I tried searching for an at home ghb urine test on line, but couldn't find any.
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire
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Posts: 10,720
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: catman123]
#17415973 - 12/19/12 09:20 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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I can get some pretty damn powerful yeast if that is a requirement. Not that I'm keen on making GHB
--------------------
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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NizzyJones
Fight evil with funk
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Somewhere North of Normal
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: catman123]
#17416093 - 12/19/12 10:16 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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No one has had a chance to empirically prove it's producing GHB/GBL, however a part of our working hypothesis is that because the way we get the GHB is through the yeast metabolizing the nitrogen contained in MSG it is probably better to not add yeast nutrients (which typically supplement nitrogen) and I believe turbo-yeast has the nutrient pack 'built in'.
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Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home
Edited by NizzyJones (12/19/12 10:22 AM)
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dstark
Manifesting Minds
Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 3,734
Loc:
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: NizzyJones]
#17416114 - 12/19/12 10:23 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
NizzyJones said:
No one has had a chance to empirically prove it's producing GHB/GBL, however a part of our working hypothesis is that because the way we get the GHB is through the yeast metabolizing the nitrogen contained in MSG it is probably better to not add yeast nutrients (which typically supplement nitrogen) and I believe turbo-yeast has the nutrient pack 'built in'.
Well said!
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What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?
~I Feel at Home~
.:SanPedro Preparation:.
.:HashBrownies Preparation:.
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NizzyJones
Fight evil with funk
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Posts: 1,894
Loc: Somewhere North of Normal
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: nearhorn]
#17416118 - 12/19/12 10:25 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
nearhorn said:
Quote:
tinseltown said:
Is this possible without ethanol?
Say, could I get GHB from just water, MSG, and yeast?
You need the sugar to atleast make it ferment from what i have figured. Well dso if i got 5 lbs of sugar, 3 cups of water, the msg, and the yeast will the work? Im guessing it will because it is still fermenting, or do you need the hops or fruits?
 5 lbs sugar : 3 cups water would probably be sludge rather than liquid so I'm guessing that's a typo?
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Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 10,720
Loc: further down the spiral
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: NizzyJones]
#17416178 - 12/19/12 10:44 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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you sir are mistaken,
I believe that you are thinking of the Wyeast "smack packs". I have some distillers yeast in the fridge, I will check it for nutrients.
--------------------
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire
Registered: 07/20/00
Posts: 10,720
Loc: further down the spiral
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
#17416205 - 12/19/12 10:56 AM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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ok yeah my bad.
I called up the local winery and they said that the most you can get is about an 18% yeast without included nitrogen.
--------------------
Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011
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catman123
Stranger
Registered: 12/19/12
Posts: 2
Last seen: 3 months, 25 days
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: dstark]
#17420682 - 12/20/12 08:05 AM (4 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
dstark said:
Quote:
NizzyJones said:
No one has had a chance to empirically prove it's producing GHB/GBL, however a part of our working hypothesis is that because the way we get the GHB is through the yeast metabolizing the nitrogen contained in MSG it is probably better to not add yeast nutrients (which typically supplement nitrogen) and I believe turbo-yeast has the nutrient pack 'built in'.
Well said!
Thanks mate. I tried it again with the same yeast (last I had left) and I think there is some GHB in it. Starting specific gravity was 1.1, ending was 1.04 (yes, I didn't wait a long time). According to most online calculators this gives around 8% abv. I drank about 0.5l of it and am definitely more drunk than I should be according to the amount and alcohol content. Still, it would be great if someone with access to the right equipment could confirm the presence of GHB.
Edited by catman123 (12/20/12 08:06 AM)
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dstark
Manifesting Minds
Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 3,734
Loc:
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: catman123]
#17420855 - 12/20/12 09:26 AM (4 months, 26 days ago) |
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There is no doubt in GHB presence after fermenting with MSG, many members are already enjoying this
Check the GHB thread in "other drugs discussions".
--------------------
What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?
~I Feel at Home~
.:SanPedro Preparation:.
.:HashBrownies Preparation:.
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ToolTroll
tourettic
Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 2,282
Loc: N. Cack
Last seen: 2 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17507811 - 01/06/13 06:02 PM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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I just wanted to follow up on this. I finally tried my batch of GHB cider last night. I used pasteurized
apple juice, champagne yeast, and 3mg/L of MSG, plus a splash of ginger tea. Both my girlfriend and I drank about a 12 oz glass, and felt considerably altered. Very giggly, euphoric, and tipsy. I've never had GHB before, but this was not straight cider at all. I consider this batch to be a rousing success in terms of effect, although the taste is a bit off. I plan to make a dark beer with MSG added soon, probably at 4 mg/L. 
--------------------
"This whole idea that different is bad, that a change in consciousness is in itself harmful, is really one of the fundamental problems inherent in the drug war.” - Rick Doblin
my cactus collection
You vote with your dollars. Everyday. Vote responsibly.
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dstark
Manifesting Minds
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Posts: 3,734
Loc:
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: ToolTroll]
#17508899 - 01/06/13 09:45 PM (4 months, 9 days ago) |
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Great dude!
--------------------
What is a mind, if not something to be messed with? What is consciousness, if not a state to be altered?
~I Feel at Home~
.:SanPedro Preparation:.
.:HashBrownies Preparation:.
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navyseals101
Stranger
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Posts: 999
Last seen: 7 days, 6 hours
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: dstark]
#17510016 - 01/07/13 01:23 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Your all being duped! Messed up on alcohol? no way! really???
--------------------
"Ten thousand flowers in spring
the moon in autumn,
a cool breeze in summer,
snow in winter.
If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things,
this is the best season of your life."
-wumen
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repress
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: navyseals101]
#17759204 - 02/07/13 12:55 AM (3 months, 8 days ago) |
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Hey guys!
I've brewed turbo cider for a long time with great results, tonight finally I got around to throw a brew together with some MSG.
I started with 2x 2L bottles of plain jane Apple juice (cheap or expensive it ends up tasting the same) but seeing as I didn't have any empty Demijohns I just used the plastic bottle is came in.
To which I added (per bottle):
-1 cup of sugar dissolved in water (Had to pour out a bit of the Juice)
-3.5G of Champagne yeast
-7G of MSG.
Slapped the lid on, shook it up, then replaced the lid with a balloon.
I decided to add a decent amount of MSG as I'm more interested in the GHB effect than the Alcohol. Hopefully it's a fairly potent brew.
I'll let you know in a few weeks time how it goes.
Edited by repress (02/07/13 12:58 AM)
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eyedea
Synaesthesiologist
Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 526
Loc: The Central Scrutinizer
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: repress]
#17786215 - 02/11/13 11:54 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
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Convinced pops to whip up soma this. Cant wait to try
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repress
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: repress]
#17786905 - 02/12/13 02:33 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
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Okay,
A mere 5 days into my brew I couldn't help but sample it, the fermentation has slowed right down. I poured myself a ~375ml glass of cider, necked it, and waited. It was quite salty in comparison to what I've brewed before which was a pleasant surprise.
I've never had straight GHB before. Where I'm from it's either 1,4B or nothing...or GBL when it RARELY turns up. 1,4B is my favorite intoxicant and am well experienced with it. So I knew what I was expecting, but at the same time was unaware.
20 minutes later - boom. Yep. This is legit. Euphoria, a slight tightness in my chest. Not as strong as what I would be chasing when taking the real thing, but close enough considering it's Apple juice and MSG.
Bless you Shroomery, bless you.
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repress
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: repress]
#17786936 - 02/12/13 02:39 AM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
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The only question I have is: How would one go about extracting the NaGHB from the alcohol, or at least separating them. I have uses for both, but preferably not at the same time
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant
Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 590
Loc: From the Stars
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: repress]
#17791943 - 02/12/13 10:09 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
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I'm allergic to msg...dang.
--------------------
What's wrong with folks?
Point your IRC client to irc.mushies.org, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs.
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FlusH
Cat Master
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: repress]
#17792296 - 02/12/13 11:18 PM (3 months, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
repress said:
The only question I have is: How would one go about extracting the NaGHB from the alcohol, or at least separating them. I have uses for both, but preferably not at the same time
Ive been thinking a bit about this lately. Im wondering if boiling the alc/water out of the brew would give a more concentrated and potent product. I even wonder if distilling the alcohol out would be worth while, or if any of the goods would transfer with it.
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repress
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: FlusH] 1
#17792658 - 02/13/13 12:28 AM (3 months, 2 days ago) |
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When liquid with NaGHB in it evaporates, all it leaves behind is the salt which eventually absorbs the moisture in the air and turns back into a liquid.
Does Alcohol evaporate? :/
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atomicshaman
in love with a dream
Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 2,295
Loc: germany
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: repress]
#17792711 - 02/13/13 12:37 AM (3 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
repress said:
When liquid with NaGHB in it evaporates, all it leaves behind is the salt which eventually absorbs the moisture in the air and turns back into a liquid.
Does Alcohol evaporate? :/
yes.
--------------------
atomicshaman is a bad machine being sent back to the factory for minor adjustments:
i have stapelia variegata and zygocactus cuttings for trade {au}
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Infinitys Minute
a universe inside each moment
Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1,607
Loc: Zion
Last seen: 15 hours, 15 minutes
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#17811627 - 02/16/13 05:51 AM (2 months, 30 days ago) |
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After reading this thread you will know a decent bit more.
In there is a good method for distilling off GBL to convert to GHB, as well as a bunch of other great info.
Quote:
Gretchenmeister said:
I'm allergic to msg...dang.
Dang indeed. Guess you'll just have to synth from GABA - look it up if you haven't, surprisingly easy if you can get GABA legally (I can't).
The other ingredient you need is used in preserving meat, just so you know where to look
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navyseals101
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Infinitys Minute]
#17829181 - 02/19/13 10:19 AM (2 months, 27 days ago) |
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this is bullshit. END THE MADNESS!
--------------------
"Ten thousand flowers in spring
the moon in autumn,
a cool breeze in summer,
snow in winter.
If your mind isn't clouded by unnecessary things,
this is the best season of your life."
-wumen
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: navyseals101] 1
#17829228 - 02/19/13 10:34 AM (2 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
navyseals101 said:
this is bullshit. END THE MADNESS!
Can you offer any proof?
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Riboflavin
Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 1,371
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: navyseals101]
#17829336 - 02/19/13 11:04 AM (2 months, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
navyseals101 said:
this is bullshit. END THE MADNESS!
Awwwwwwwwe, but the madness has only just begun. While I'm not a fan of the process, it seems pretty hard to discount it at this point (until some real tests are done all we have to go on is anecdotal information).
--------------------
All that groks is God.
Edited by Riboflavin (02/19/13 11:21 AM)
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Spiderbaby
?
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: navyseals101]
#17851451 - 02/23/13 09:48 AM (2 months, 23 days ago) |
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About a month ago I started two gallons of minimum nutrient MSG lemonade (basically just MSG as the nitrogen source, sugar, yeast and water), GABA was also thrown in for the laugh. Fermantation has now stopped completely. Next weekend the batch will be made basic to convert any product to Na-GHB, it will then be boiled to reduce the volume and evaporate any ethanol.
Haven't decided what to do after that stage, consume directly and if it still has an intoxicating effect then it likely contains GHB. Edit: Might then acidify and extract possible GBL with chloroform or ethyl acetate etc.
I'll update next week
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Theres a time and a place for everything and its called college,
Edited by Spiderbaby (02/23/13 12:24 PM)
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QT3BFLEE
ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้
Registered: 02/17/13
Posts: 257
Loc: Murica
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Spiderbaby]
#17864142 - 02/25/13 05:46 PM (2 months, 21 days ago) |
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A hypothesis on how to make low ethanol, high GHB containing brews would be to utilize a SCOBY. The SCOBY can ferment with a much lower sugar requirement and lead to a lower alcohol content. This would allow for truly discerning the qualitative effects of any GHB created and a taste test to tell how much MSG might be leftover.
Kombucha starters can be purchased online and are fairly easy to establish.
This may also be useful in the creation of an intoxicating food condiment. Create a vinegar filled with GHB and leftover MSG, add it to an appetizer and let the combination work its magic on the remaining meal. Throw in a glass of wine and you're set for a quality evening.
Furthermore, this discovery really lends itself to advanced mycologists. Surely there could be work performed to create a yeast isolate which preferentially converts MSG to GHB. It would take some testing equipment or friends with such equipment, but with the prevalence of drug testing technology, I can't imagine it would be too difficult for some.
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My Public Key
Edited by QT3BFLEE (02/25/13 05:53 PM)
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setb
Stranger
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: trendal]
#17867419 - 02/26/13 05:27 AM (2 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
trendal said:
Quote:
navyseals101 said:
this is bullshit. END THE MADNESS!
Can you offer any proof?
The people pushing forth the hypothesis are the ones who need to prove it. Get a sample tested for GHB. Until then enjoy your placebo ale .
--------------------
"The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows." - Thomas Jefferson
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Infinitys Minute
a universe inside each moment
Registered: 11/02/11
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: setb]
#17867447 - 02/26/13 05:40 AM (2 months, 20 days ago) |
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I don't think it's really being pushed, people are simply reporting the effects they notice.
Could be placebo or confirmation bias...
But honestly, if it IS - nobody fucking tell me!
It feels great, so don't ruin it for me if it is.
Enjoying some overhopped GHBeer mixed into a regular can of beer at this moment alongside some hash and a relax. Sweeeeet sweeeeeet placebo.
note; if this is a placebo then it serves as double proof that scepticism is a buzz kill, if you follow
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trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,180
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: setb] 2
#17867554 - 02/26/13 07:03 AM (2 months, 20 days ago) |
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So then you have no proof that this doesn't contain any GHB. I know, I know...it's on those who propose something is happening to find the proof, but you are completely without substance here in saying that nothing happens. We do have some science on our side, mainly the journal article mentioned in the OP.
Do you have any evidence that what the article says is wrong?
--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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than
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: trendal]
#17932555 - 03/10/13 09:05 AM (2 months, 8 days ago) |
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The Ehrlich reaction does indeed seem to apply to glutamate, and is the mechanism attributed to formation of GBL in various wines, ports, sherrys, etc.
Indeed radio-labelled glutamic acid brewed with Saccharomyces fermentati yielded radioactive gamma-butyrolactone according to Am. J. Enol. Vito 1988 vol. 39 no. 3 234-238.
From what I've read, higher pH and fermentation temperatures may assist in the formation of the higher alcohols. Has there been much experimentation on this by anyone?
I currently have a couple of fermentations on the go, and a premature sampling of a glass of cider seemed to produce a somewhat stronger effect than expected. Will report more upon further tests.
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jslim180
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#17998493 - 03/23/13 11:24 AM (1 month, 26 days ago) |
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How to test to verify:
1) no msg is remaining
2) intended product has been produced
Is there lab with a Mass Spectrometer that may be open to the public? I believe the Mass Spectrometer could test for #1... Has this been done already?
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jslim180
Stranger
Registered: 03/23/13
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#17998928 - 03/23/13 01:29 PM (1 month, 26 days ago) |
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A MSG allergy can be a good thing. MSG as bad news. You may debate this but until it is definitively proven (as the earth is now round and revolves around the sun) I would avoid MSG.
So, You don't want to consume it anyways.
Now, remember, (I'm open for correction here), but I always thought that the MSG would be consumed by the yeast and converted into product and bi-product. If the mixture is right, all MSG will be converted while the yeast are still active. Surely there is a lab that will check this stuff first...
GHB on the other hand is well tolerated and breaks down cleanly. Further, I always known the sodium form of GHB to not have any addictive qualities what so ever. There is research and experience behind this. On the other hand, I am convinced (and NOT by personal experience), that other forms of GHB like GBL may be very addictive.
Sorry, if this was already covered ... What form of GHB might this be? Any chance this is GBL? GBL is not a real problem because it can be fixed by reacting with a base. Always convert GBL (for health reasons mentioned above).
So, if you have an allergy, I would wait for the conclusion. Similarly, I'm not a MSG fan so I am looking for some labs to see what is actually left in the brew.
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NizzyJones
Fight evil with funk
Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Somewhere North of Normal
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Re: Home Brewers, your skills are urgently needed for the science of intoxication! [Re: jslim180]
#17999061 - 03/23/13 02:00 PM (1 month, 26 days ago) |
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MSG, being a salt, dissociates into Na+ and glutamic acid - which is a totally normal amino acid. You have the components of the stuff in your body all the time. Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is most likely a result of idiots eating too many carbs and too much salt all at once.
"Results of surveys and of clinical challenges with MSG in the general population reveal no evidence of untoward effects. We recently conducted a multicenter DBPC challenge study in 130 subjects (the largest to date) to analyze the response of subjects who report symptoms from ingesting MSG. The results suggest that large doses of MSG given without food may elicit more symptoms than a placebo in individuals who believe that they react adversely to MSG. However, the frequency of the responses was low and the responses reported were inconsistent and were not reproducible. The responses were not observed when MSG was given with food." http://jn.nutrition.org/content/130/4/1058.long
Edited by NizzyJones (03/23/13 02:09 PM)
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