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 tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
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 Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. 
#16540308 - 07/16/12 06:00 PM (10 months, 14 hours ago) |
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Realizing you're not important in the grand scheme of things is relatively common. Continuing to live your life like you know this is somehow a lot less common.
I can probably guess the why, but how does one win this battle, or a least gain the upper hand ?
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TheDukeofLizards
you should take larger doses
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 1,411
Last seen: 4 months, 15 days
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 Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman]
#16540473 - 07/16/12 06:32 PM (10 months, 13 hours ago) |
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For me, I came to the realization that it was up to me to give my life meaning and importance.
I had to find something deeper inside myself that made me want to keep going. I realized that just because the things I do in my life will never matter in 'the grand scheme of things', isn't any reason to not keep challenging myself with new goals and hobbies and living with integrity.
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman] 1
#16540665 - 07/16/12 07:12 PM (10 months, 12 hours ago) |
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Remind yourself constantly that you are dying.
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,862
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: White Beard]
#16540880 - 07/16/12 08:00 PM (10 months, 12 hours ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Remind yourself constantly that you are dying.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
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Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: TheDukeofLizards]
#16541369 - 07/16/12 09:50 PM (10 months, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
TheDukeofLizards said:
For me, I came to the realization that it was up to me to give my life meaning and importance.
I had to find something deeper inside myself that made me want to keep going. I realized that just because the things I do in my life will never matter in 'the grand scheme of things', isn't any reason to not keep challenging myself with new goals and hobbies and living with integrity.
I can't buy into this subjective meaning business, It seems that in our snatching and clawing to find an objective purpose for our existence, we always come up short. We then resort to the "Well I'll do what I think Is important", and I'm sorry, but this sounds to me, too much like "let them eat cake".
I see the continuation of our species (procreation), and it's continued advancement into the future as two obvious,and arguably, big contenders for an objective purpose, at least as a conceivable purpose to us, forming, frolicking, and failing within.
I also see examples of people living in the spirit of subjective meaning, making a mess of the world, life, existence. Then I think well none of it matters, because there is no point to it. The whole system of existence seems be without cause or reason outside of serving that within. This is apparently ok for the lesser forms here, the 'less conscious' animals, but we struggle. Animals seem to do both, they live a subjectively meaningful life following their instincts and evolved behaviours, while at the same time living an objectively meaningful life, at least in regard to procreation and advancing their species through exposure to evolution.
I don't want to live like an animal, this doesn't seem like the answer, I imagine it to be a very numb and dull experience, but then I wouldn't care. What about a state of heightened awareness while fulfilling none of the objective criteria, or while conforming to the criteria ?
A regular happening on mushrooms, is the sense that the world is for some unknown reason, ridiculous, It compels me to fits of giggles. This is true don't you think ?,
or is it only ridiculous to the self-relating mechanism of the ego ? Without which there would be no 'Us', just something more closely resembling an animal.
Sorry if this is old, regurgitated, repetative, and retarded, I've been away a while. 
It's good to empty this shit somewhere. 
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
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Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: White Beard]
#16541378 - 07/16/12 09:53 PM (10 months, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Remind yourself constantly that you are dying.
What makes you think I quit ?
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
Loc: fixed in it's gaze
Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: Icelander]
#16541393 - 07/16/12 09:56 PM (10 months, 10 hours ago) |
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Sorry Chief it was not my intention to wake you from your slumber,
at least not for such a worthless query. 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,862
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman]
#16541518 - 07/16/12 10:29 PM (10 months, 9 hours ago) |
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That's ok I had to get up and pee anyway.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
Loc: fixed in it's gaze
Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: Icelander]
#16541796 - 07/16/12 11:18 PM (10 months, 8 hours ago) |
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No harm, no foul. 
Would you like to read my excuse for my absence around these parts, and for my trekking my way over old terrain ? It might be of interest, and you may even find it mildly amusing. 
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,957
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman] 1
#16543611 - 07/17/12 10:29 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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I think that you should only give substance and integration to realizations that have some value: in the least case orienting towards peace, healing and wisdom.
the realization that you are insignificant in the scheme of whatever is not a terrific core to design your life around, more of an injury to heal from.
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~~~~~
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GoreTuzk
Stranger
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: redgreenvines]
#16543731 - 07/17/12 11:20 AM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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You come to that realization because you think you are limited by the barrier of the epidermis, when in fact your skin doesn't separate you from the environment, it unites you to it. You are not just important in the grand scheme of things, you are the grand scheme of things.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,862
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman]
#16544163 - 07/17/12 01:28 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
tribesman said:
No harm, no foul.
Would you like to read my excuse for my absence around these parts, and for my trekking my way over old terrain ? It might be of interest, and you may even find it mildly amusing.
Sure.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,862
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: GoreTuzk]
#16544166 - 07/17/12 01:29 PM (9 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
GoreTuzk said:
You come to that realization because you think you are limited by the barrier of the epidermis, when in fact your skin doesn't separate you from the environment, it unites you to it. You are not just important in the grand scheme of things, you are the grand scheme of things.
That's an ugly thought. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
Loc: fixed in it's gaze
Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: redgreenvines]
#16548790 - 07/18/12 12:11 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Is there such a thing as an objective value ?, if not then we're back to subjective meaning, doing that which satisfies our personality.
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,081
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman]
#16548862 - 07/18/12 12:24 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
tribesman said:
Realizing you're not important in the grand scheme of things is relatively common. Continuing to live your life like you know this is somehow a lot less common.
I can probably guess the why, but how does one win this battle, or a least gain the upper hand ?
I found the heart sutra helpful for putting everything on equal ground.
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
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Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: GoreTuzk]
#16548946 - 07/18/12 12:41 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
GoreTuzk said:
You come to that realization because you think you are limited by the barrier of the epidermis, when in fact your skin doesn't separate you from the environment, it unites you to it. You are not just important in the grand scheme of things, you are the grand scheme of things.
So importance, value, significance and meaning are all just justifications for the paths people follow and the choices they make, "because it's important" (to me, to them, to the world). This somehow implies that by doing whatever is of meaning they are shouldering a responsibility, so it seems that taking responsibility could be at the root of this somewhere.
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
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Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: Kickle]
#16549465 - 07/18/12 02:53 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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I remember, think I need to go back to it. (definitely )
This brings me back nicely to what I was going to say to Icelander.
After my big experience last year I got a bit fixated by the state I had experienced. This took me down low, or what the consensus would deem as low. I started viewing life as an anomaly, a spark, sharing space and time with other anomalies, united by futility, but utterly distracted from that fact, at least in real life observations.
Watching and interacting with people doing everyday things, and planning for the future. Younger siblings, cousins, and friends living their lives, getting married having kids. Friends of a similar age to myself coming out of long term relationships, scarred and weary. I didn't want any piece of this dream, for surely I was certain to wake to nothingness. So I focused on what that certainty would bring, nothing, death. The surrender and release I had experienced had crystallized into indifference and a nihilistic outlook, does that sound like the correct comparison ?.
White beard said "Remind yourself constantly that you are dying.", that is a quite understated example of how I was living my days. In my black stupor, I was convinced by family to try the consensus route out. I visited my doctor and was prescribed antidepressants, which I have been taking for about three months. For the first eight weeks, my ability to maintain my concentration and focus on thoughts became poor. Putting together a paragraph or writing four lines of lyrics for tune became too difficult. I mentioned it to you Kickle in a thread in the 'other room'.
I actually missed my mind, it's ability to build and create. Now more recently my ability to concentrate has got better again, my facebook had been neglected, but I always look in on the shroomery to see what you're all prattling on about. I just found it hard to hold thoughts long enough to compose what I wanted to say, and then get it wrote down. The indifference has turned to a more selfless attitude in my life, not something I had expected or really hoped for. It seems that the indifference to self has remained, but because I'm still interacting with family and friends I'm living my life only by reacting to theirs, and their demands on me.
I'm not working, I'm single, I have no children, and I live alone. I'm woken up, usually by a friend or family member, to give me my first reason to get out of bed for the day, and the rest of the day unfolds from there. I have no purpose of my own so I'm living my life through them. This self-forgetting new approach to daily existence is novel, but I feel a new shell forming, crusting over the broken one. I'm becoming valued again, but it's not making me feel self-important, because I'm not important, I have nothing to do but what is required of me by them.
I read something which made me think of this in TDOD, The chapter called: A general view of mental illness, Depression. I'm not going to quote it here, but it seemed to be describing a similar thing.
All I can do is watch, for I'm certain this shell will be broken again, it's inescapable. I'm becoming that from which I became, maybe over and over again, maybe just the once. I could go on but I've already run over.
Edited by tribesman (07/18/12 03:01 PM)
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,081
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman]
#16549672 - 07/18/12 03:42 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Here's a question: Is it possible you are purposefully stifling reasons to live in order to keep from having to lose them? I find myself doing this and that's why I ask.
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tribesman
Knew it all along
Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 603
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Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: Kickle]
#16550329 - 07/18/12 06:05 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Yes possibly, limit exposure to aspects of life that present a risk of attachment and loss. Arguably limiting the emotional blast radius of my own disappearance from the world on family and friends is another possibility. Is it not more like shying away from the responsibility of living?
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Maitreya
Vishnu.
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 218
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Bridging the gap between the realization and the application and integration of the lesson. [Re: tribesman]
#16550425 - 07/18/12 06:21 PM (9 months, 29 days ago) |
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Everything, one.
Karma and dharma are one.
All of this is one.
Accept karma and dharma as equally good for you, and everything else follows. Or, if you aren't especially well-versed in esoteric tibetan/hindu mythology, follow this simple paradigm:
1 is 2. 2 is 3. 3 is neither 1 nor 2.
Or if math isn't your thing:
Truly believing you are sane is insanity. Truly believing you are insane is unsanity. Unsanity is neither sanity nor insanity.
edited: once.
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Ye dharma hetuprabava hetun tesam tathagato hy avadat tesam ca yo nirrhodo evam vadi mahasramana.
Edited by Maitreya (07/18/12 06:58 PM)
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