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 MarkostheGnostic
Elder
 
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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 Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology?  [Re: johnm214]
#16572677 - 07/23/12 07:27 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
nor have the knowledge base that I do.
lol
All that knowledge, yet you spend your posts assuring others of said knowledge rather than presenting a coherent argument. Maybe you should try your luck on a forum where appeals to authority mean something.
Maybe you should take a look at your issues with authority. After all, you can only speak for yourself, even if others agree with you. Authority comes with age, experience, and education. If you don't want to learn, that's on you. Age and experience happens all by themselves if one lives long enough. I am into learning. By corollary, teaching happens.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: Vore]
#16572699 - 07/23/12 07:49 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Vore said:
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MarkostheGnostic said:
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blingbling said:
what are these sphere's of the psyche?
The spheres are metaphors for inner 'spheres of influence,' which systems like the Qabalistic Tree and the systems of Indian Yoga, Tibetan Yoga, Chinese Taoist Yoga, or the American Hopi systems describe. There is a Sufi system as well, and Georg Gurdjieff's system derives from the Sufi system. http://rose-sufi-crescent.blogspot.com/2006/05/sufism-chakra-system-and-stations-of.html There is a system of the Hesychastic Orthodox Christians, and some lesser known systems as well.
I kind of feel like placing focus on anywhere on the body would generate more awareness. I think the differences in the systems illustrate the areas aren't really concrete. I feel like some common points are solid, like the third eye, but what about the others?
What about the others? Point to yourself. Where are you pointing? Ever feel unsettled in your belly in a dangerous, or creepy situation? Ever get sexually aroused? Ever get frightened enough to shit your pants (or hear about someone doing that)? Ever been in a state of Awe, perhaps at psychedelicized inner visuals that you seemed to disappear, or at least become so quiet that all there was, was the awe-inspiring experience? Ever have 'AHA!' moments? Ever wonder about what some symbol, or some coincidence, or life itself might mean? Ever feel your heart wrench with compassion? Ever been instantly mobilized by fear, and had to move or die? These are just a few experiences that refer back to centers of motivation in the body.
The higher centers effect increasingly subtle and increasingly inner-directed experiences not behavioral things which can be observed by others, like an insight or an idea, yet these subtle events have changed human history more profoundly than record-breaking Olympic feats. Hegel's "Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis" got turned from a spiritual to a materialistic meaning by Karl Marx. Materialistic Socialism and later Communism developed out of his inversion. Everyone as seen E=mc2 and understood how much history evolved from this idea.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,797
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
blingbling said:
your analysis seems extraordinarily arbitrary to me. i might as well say that each school of psychoanalysis can be represented by a specific power ranger and that watching power rangers is an excellent way of understanding psychoanalysis.
That is because you neither understand my brief synopsis, nor have the knowledge base that I do. I do not believe that my distinguished doctoral committee, from within and without my department, including a Zurich-trained Jungian analyst, would have granted me a Ph.D. from the largest university in the U.S. if they thought my work was illogical, unsupported, and poorly written. At this point of my life, I have 29 years of post-doctoral research and experience on this matter. So, either ask a question or move on.
Unless the whole bunch of you are illogical in the same way the fundy's believe they are super sane. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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 blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,256
Last seen: 3 minutes, 4 seconds
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you claim that you are a specialist in your field, you said some things about psychoanalysis so i assumed that you know something about psychoanalysis. yet, you keep talking about these esoteric knowledge systems which imo you haven't linked to psychoanalysis at all. you've talked a lot about your qualifications, but you have left me wanting on the theory side. if your such a big shot psychoanalyst then simply answer this question. how do the chakras represent the different schools of psychoanalysis? and don't start moaning about peoples "knowledge base" if you can't explain it to someone without such a "knowledge base" then i doubt that you are as knowledgeable as you make out.
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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hoodbran
Dosser
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1,508
Loc: Phloston Paradise
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: blingbling]
#16572997 - 07/23/12 10:22 AM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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I have to be honest, I do find chakra, the serpent thing and other fringe frameworks a bit hard to digest and think it's not the language to convey to mainstream laypeoples. I do think however, there is something in holotropic breathwork and transpersonal psychology. Psychoanalysis on the other hand, I can talk about, but mostly in the Foulkesian tradition (group analysis), however I try my best at times to integrate all aspects of what informs a therapist in the task of reparenting or cognitive change.
I work within a strict framework in my day job which is heavy on the group analytical movement but I do bring in personal experience when generalizing other dysfunctions to the groups I teach.
For me, The theory side of psychoanalytical psychoanalysis and group psychodynamics each describe fundamental yet unsatiated human needs that give people certain potentials (and also rob them of these). Most folk in therapy find themselves wanting the answers to life, (dont we all) to quickly "get it over" so they can live. The disappointment comes from finding there are no answers but it amuses therapists when people decry their need for them. It's useful to formulate a case conception, for then we know what we're dealing with (see my post on the DSM above) - but after that, it's about taking something a client does, repackaging it and giving it back safely. Then there's the extreme of the therapist doing things, like missed appointments to illicit a response and then work through what that means, in the comfort of the therapy chair.
Some psychoanalytical writers do the same as academic psychologists and write in their musings about the idealize/devaluation dichotomy of object constancy in the same way as academics and students drape a theory over their work. What it's really about is knowing thyself. When a practitioner knows him or herself, they can begin to contain painful and often difficult to cope with feelings that the patient projects on to him, his organization and then society, all with the reverse order effects.
"Democracy does not create democratic people, psychoanalysis creates democratic people." - Edward Bernays.
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Not all drugs are good, Some are great.
Edited by hoodbran (07/23/12 10:30 AM)
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,557
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Maybe you should take a look at your issues with authority.
Great, another e-diagnosis. This forum is for discussion of ideas and debate- if you want to lob ad hominems and diagnose people then mosey on over the mental health forum.
Quote:
If you don't want to learn, that's on you. Age and experience happens all by themselves if one lives long enough. I am into learning. By corollary, teaching happens.
Interesting, I'm in college taking chemistry, and yet none of this authority bullcrap is relied upon. When I ask my professors a question I get reasons and references and explanations of the experimental foundation of the theory. I can't say I have much confidence in those who rely on authority and can't justify their claims- it simply isn't necessary.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
THAT was where my "claims" were substantiated - not with you.
Cool. Now that you mention it, I one time wrote this fancy article with a really official looking typeface. In that super official article, I proved you wrong. Checkmate.
Well, I guess we can go ahead and close this forum now that we can simply rely on each other's assurance of being right in lieu of logical demonstration of our claims.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 5,447
Loc: Between
Last seen: 7 days, 12 hours
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: Mafeki]
#16573423 - 07/23/12 01:09 PM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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I just studied some basic semesters of Psychology at a catholic university in a fantastic landscape here in germany.
They emphasized the scientific empirical side of 'modern' psychology, but for doing that, they even showed the contrast in historic psychology.
A huge field was Biopsychology, Maths, especially statistics and Scientific Methodology and Sociology. Of course all tat in combination with 'General Psychology' [those things we all share] and 'Differential Psychology'.
These are the terms translated from german language. I'm not so sure how they're called in english.
Even if it's maybe 10 years ago already, and I am not 'updating' my knowledge regularly, it gave me a good fundament of the term to grasp and even shows me still, that 'real' psychology still goes way beyond it...for me, at least 
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/18/06
Posts: 9,617
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: johnm214]
#16575178 - 07/23/12 06:23 PM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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blingbling
what you chicken stew?
Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,256
Last seen: 3 minutes, 4 seconds
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: hoodbran]
#16575621 - 07/23/12 07:23 PM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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Most folk in therapy find themselves wanting the answers to life, (dont we all) to quickly "get it over" so they can live. The disappointment comes from finding there are no answers
this is exactly what freud found. he said something along the lines of: we make people better, cure them of their mental illness, so that they can face the everyday horrors that the normal individaul must face. this is why jung went all religious. he knew that for psychology to really make people better, it had to become a religion. its very telling that the rise of psychoanalysis mirrored the decline of christianity. you've probably heard this before, but you should check out ernest beckers work. i shamelessly plug it to anyone who i think wants to understand people. he basically reworks the whole psychoanalytic movement and puts it in a comprehensive framework for understanding human behavior. its great stuff.
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Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.
cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.
dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.
White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Northland, New Zealand. 
Last seen: 15 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: blingbling]
#16576020 - 07/23/12 08:54 PM (9 months, 20 days ago) |
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I consider myself to be into real psychology. I've been living with boredom, aimlessness, incompetence and self hate for a long time, the books I've studied show a possible way through. I've stuck with Thomas Moore, James Hillman and Robert Sardello. I've kept some faith, in going with, staying with, living with myself as best I can and not trying to do much about anything. Now with the aid of low doses of cannabis I experience mystical states everyday, where I see the perfection of everything.
If stupid people like me can't make use of psychological books as a guide to finding sanctuary then then these accomplished author/therapists contributions have gone to hell. No way can I afford therapy, and the government funded poison pill pushing is fucked up. The Positive Mental Attitude shit has done naught for me, I'm going to burn all those books of mine.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: blingbling]
#16579130 - 07/24/12 12:32 PM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
blingbling said:
you claim that you are a specialist in your field, you said some things about psychoanalysis so i assumed that you know something about psychoanalysis. yet, you keep talking about these esoteric knowledge systems which imo you haven't linked to psychoanalysis at all. you've talked a lot about your qualifications, but you have left me wanting on the theory side. if your such a big shot psychoanalyst then simply answer this question. how do the chakras represent the different schools of psychoanalysis? and don't start moaning about peoples "knowledge base" if you can't explain it to someone without such a "knowledge base" then i doubt that you are as knowledgeable as you make out.
I derived my idea and expanded upon it from a few pages in Ram Dass' first book, The Only Dance There Is. Pick up a copy in a bookstore and check out pages 28-30, and again, pages 82-85. The Freudian, and Adlerian systems described people who make up the largest portion of our population. Freud's anal-genital region corresponds, for example, to the 1st and 2nd chakra motivations, on one level. In the Buddhist chakra system, all the motivational forces get 'enlightened' and become symbols of 'Buddha Energies," or vehicles for manifesting enlightened motives (but I digress). Adler's psychology describes people whose personalities are centered on personal power, superiority-inferiority, the "will to power" (borrowed from Nietzsche). It was Ram Dass who suggested that Jung represented the first transcendental psychology - the intersection of transpersonal with per-personal psychic contents. Then, I did a review of the major personality theorists and found that much of what Victor Frankl said about "the will to meaning" corresponded with much that I read about the 5th chakra, and Abraham Maslow's work on "peak experiences." which became psychedelic jargon, related to Brain Center phenomenon. The Tibetan system combines upper two and lower two centers to make 5 chakras.
It was in the Tibetan system that the "path towards unification" upward, is followed with the "path towards realization" in the Heart Center, with the intermediary Throat Center between. This is "The Mystery of Body, Speech and Mind" or OM-AH-HUM that one finds in Tibetan mysticism. Following a "Peak Experience" symbolized by OM, after one's individuality has been dissolved in the Infinite, one 'resurrects' so-to-speak, descends the mythical mountain-top like in the Moses story (which is a mythic way of describing a Maslowian "Peak" experience, and one communicates one's 'revelations' of unity. This is the 'enlightened' Throat Center, which I symbolized by the theorist Carl Rogers (unconditional positive regard, congruence, empathy). All transitions between chapters in my dissertation flowed smoothly, using quotations, from one theorist to another. As all dissertations, it was "a unique contribution" to the existing knowledge base. Certainly not a final word, but definitely a useful heuristic device for mapping 'where I'm coming from,' on a moment-to-moment basis. The Heart becomes the multi-faceted Diamond Body - a synthesis of all of the transmuted motivations.
The Kundalini system is like a series of transformers with more and more windings (petals on the lotuses). The energy remains the same, but the potential at each chakra is higher. In the Tibetan system, it is more like a fire boils water, which produces steam, which kinetically spins a dynamo, which creates electricity which can become hot incandescence or cool fluorescence. There are these qualitative changes in the analogy, and by parallel, the different psychological theorists focus on these different forms of human motivation. Hence the title of 18 words: A Phenomenological Adaptation of the Tibetan Buddhist Doctrine of Psychic Centers to a Metatheoretical Hierarchy of Human Motivation. I adapted the Tibetan Buddhist chakra system, as taught by Lama Govinda, with whom I was in communication by mail, and matched the phenomenologies of people whose personalities were dominated by one motive or another, with these Western theorists. I compared and contrasted classical materials from John Woodruff's books like The Serpent Power, and Shakti and Shakta, as well as made use of historical figures as far-ranging as Hugh Hefner's Playboy mentality of "the Pleasure Principle" based on sex, to Hitler's occult Nazism speculated to be rooted in the swastika symbol, which Woodruff explains is found in the Manipura, or power chakra. The solar, Aries (Hitler was an Aries) Manipura (Indo-European root for our word Manipu-lation), promises to 'destroy the world in fire, and rebuild it in one's own image.' The Holocaust. I hope this explains a bit more for you.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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 Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: Icelander]
#16579301 - 07/24/12 01:17 PM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Unless the whole bunch of you are illogical in the same way the fundy's believe they are super sane.
I do not believe that sanity is a construct that fundamentalists hold to. I encounter people who throw common sense, scientific empiricism, and simple rationality out the window and believe that faith in scriptures is a truer means for understanding Reality.
There was a fundamentalist Christian language arts teacher whom I worked with for many years. In fact, he tried to pick a fist fight with me in a school hallway, because he seemed to be jealous about a young teacher I was dating. He was married, and his Jewish convert to fundamentalist Christianity wife, had at one time been a member of some satanic cult. There may have been criminal abuse of children, but whatever it was, she went overboard with overcompensation. On the last day of the school year, when all faculty were gathered in the lunchroom to turn in keys, etc., he confronted me and my girlfriend loudly, "Are the two of you going to be fornicating this summer?!" "As much as possible," I loudly responded. There was that jealousy thing again, making him self-righteous and seemingly indignant.
On one occasion, I tried to explain a scriptural passage - "and the stars in the sky fell to earth" (Revelations 6:13) to him. I said look R., the Greek word for star is aster, as in our word *asterisk. I said, that let's assume there is a prophetic, precognitive truth in that passage of Revelations. After all, asteroid B-612, the size of Texas, is heading this way and will be here in 800 years. What did the ancients know about asters and asteroids? Nothing. I tried to explain to him the size of a star relative to the Earth, and that bodies a million times more voluminous and incomprehensibly heavier, do not fall to a dust mote in space. The fundy says, and I paraphrase because I can't remember exactly: 'Maybe God puts a force-field of some kind around the Sun so that it simply looks larger. Maybe, the Sun, and the stars, are no larger than a basketball...' OK. He used a sci-fi term, 'force-field,' and then, the illogic behind basketball-sized Sun and stars simply manifested delusional, or infantile magical thinking.
I tried another tach on another occasion, when he was being concretely literal. I asked him about "I am the vine; you are the branches..." in John 15:5. I asked him as a language arts teacher. Do you not know metaphor when you see one? Is Jesus saying that he is vegetation? He admitted that he needed to give such matters more thought. But thought needs to be consonant with context. He could not discern as literal, allegorical, symbolic, or mystical - which is what biblical exegesis is about. So, he was confused, illogical, irrational, and frankly, delusional (if anyone states plainly that the Sun is the size of a basketball, that is delusional). Delusional people are not sane, but the notion that he was delusional apparently never entered his mind.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,797
Loc: underbelly
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I do not believe that sanity is a construct that fundamentalists hold to.
Gee what a shocker, you believe that sanity is a construct that you hold to. 
But from here I don't see a huge difference.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: Icelander]
#16579396 - 07/24/12 01:44 PM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
I do not believe that sanity is a construct that fundamentalists hold to.
Gee what a shocker, you believe that sanity is a construct that you hold to.
But from here I don't see a huge difference.
That's because you're way too far away to see me clearly. I am pre-eminently sane, but I would add that sanity is a legal term, not a clinical term. It refers to a person's capacity to understand what they've done, criminally speaking. It also determines whether someone understands their rights. Half a dozen years ago, a 14 year old boy in my friend's school (where he had the same position I do), murdered a 13 year old boy in the bathroom. His head was effectively severed from some 42 hunting-knife thrusts. My friend found the body. Despite the fact that the murderer had previously been diagnosed with schizophrenia, paranoid type, he still received a life-sentence for the murder because it was premeditated, and had a hit list which included teachers and his parents. The kid went back to class covered in blood, and told the teacher he had a nose bleed! 
So, from a legal point of view, he was sane to stand trial, but from a clinical point of view, he was schizophrenic, psychotic, delusional.
I do not adhere to delusions. I DO value the power of the non-rational in transpersonal states of mind, but non-rational is NOT the same thing as irrational. This is another case of the "Pre-Trans Fallacy" that Ken Wilber has made abundantly clear. The myth of The Garden of Eden, for example, describing an unconscious unity with nature, is in Jungian terms, a symbol of intrauterine and newly extra-uterine infantile existence. It is NOT the same as the myth of the Kingdom of Heaven, which symbolizes a fully conscious union of opposites, conscious and unconscious, and therefore wholeness, or holiness. This is a Jungian interpretation of biblical myth, instead of a literal understanding of myth as history. Personally, I find the analysis of pre-rational myth to be an exceptionally rational thing to do. I'm into taxonomizing, categorizing, and ordering this "buzzing blooming confusion" called life. I also have a value about how a human being should 'BE.' So, what might you be referring to?
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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 Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: johnm214]
#16579555 - 07/24/12 02:19 PM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Maybe you should take a look at your issues with authority.
Great, another e-diagnosis. This forum is for discussion of ideas and debate- if you want to lob ad hominems and diagnose people then mosey on over the mental health forum.
Quote:
If you don't want to learn, that's on you. Age and experience happens all by themselves if one lives long enough. I am into learning. By corollary, teaching happens.
Interesting, I'm in college taking chemistry, and yet none of this authority bullcrap is relied upon. When I ask my professors a question I get reasons and references and explanations of the experimental foundation of the theory. I can't say I have much confidence in those who rely on authority and can't justify their claims- it simply isn't necessary.
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
THAT was where my "claims" were substantiated - not with you.
Cool. Now that you mention it, I one time wrote this fancy article with a really official looking typeface. In that super official article, I proved you wrong. Checkmate.
Well, I guess we can go ahead and close this forum now that we can simply rely on each other's assurance of being right in lieu of logical demonstration of our claims.
NO diagnosis here, none whatsoever. No ad hominem either. No attack. Just a suggestion why you would would lay an authority trip on me. I do speak with authority, and I am an authority on certain subjects. If we were in a classroom, I would not be teaching chemistry, I'd be teaching human development, or personality theory, or something related (I've taught undergrads and grad students). I would cite references there too, and if you read any of my posts you'll see that I very frequently cite references, and often include links to Amazon.com. I do not make stuff up, nor do I lie. I speak from my own experience, and hence from the authority of experience, or else I cite my sources, which have been selected because they are very apt sources in my estimation. So, questioning my authority is tantamount to calling me a liar. I can be wrong. I can be mistaken. But most of the time, despite my best efforts at clarity in a very amorphous area of inquiry (consciousness), I am more often misunderstood.
In chemistry class, "claims" are about predictable, replicable results of chemical reactions at identical S.T.P.. In discussing philosophy, stream of consciousness, pure experience, one can only use models and metaphors for isolating invariant features like motivation, from the socio-cultural milieu they appear in. One cannot do a fractional distillation, or a vacuum distillation of consciousness. So, if you are primarily a student of chemistry, know that a Vigreux column, or a Soxhlet extractor, cannot separate a subjectively experienced datum. One must employ, not chemistry instruments, but philosophical instruments, like a 'Phenomenological Reduction.' Metaphor becomes a means for 'containing' an intangible 'element' in experience. Analogously, it is like containing plasma in a magnetic field - energy containing energy. That's the best laboratory analogy I can muster at the moment.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,797
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I do not believe that sanity is a construct that fundamentalists hold to.
Gee what a shocker, you believe that sanity is a construct that you hold to.
But from here I don't see a huge difference.
That's because you're way too far away to see me clearly. I am pre-eminently sane, but I would add that sanity is a legal term, not a clinical term. It refers to a person's capacity to understand what they've done, criminally speaking. It also determines whether someone understands their rights. Half a dozen years ago, a 14 year old boy in my friend's school (where he had the same position I do), murdered a 13 year old boy in the bathroom. His head was effectively severed from some 42 hunting-knife thrusts. My friend found the body. Despite the fact that the murderer had previously been diagnosed with schizophrenia, paranoid type, he still received a life-sentence for the murder because it was premeditated, and had a hit list which included teachers and his parents. The kid went back to class covered in blood, and told the teacher he had a nose bleed!
So, from a legal point of view, he was sane to stand trial, but from a clinical point of view, he was schizophrenic, psychotic, delusional.
I do not adhere to delusions. I DO value the power of the non-rational in transpersonal states of mind, but non-rational is NOT the same thing as irrational. This is another case of the "Pre-Trans Fallacy" that Ken Wilber has made abundantly clear. The myth of The Garden of Eden, for example, describing an unconscious unity with nature, is in Jungian terms, a symbol of intrauterine and newly extra-uterine infantile existence. It is NOT the same as the myth of the Kingdom of Heaven, which symbolizes a fully conscious union of opposites, conscious and unconscious, and therefore wholeness, or holiness. This is a Jungian interpretation of biblical myth, instead of a literal understanding of myth as history. Personally, I find the analysis of pre-rational myth to be an exceptionally rational thing to do. I'm into taxonomizing, categorizing, and ordering this "buzzing blooming confusion" called life. I also have a value about how a human being should 'BE.' So, what might you be referring to?
I do not adhere to delusions.
 good one. 
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 9,140
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 17 minutes, 59 seconds
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 Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: Icelander]
#16581092 - 07/24/12 07:07 PM (9 months, 19 days ago) |
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I do not adhere to delusions.
good one.
That's not an answer, it's an accusation. I'll ask you again, what are you referring to?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,797
Loc: underbelly
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Your particular belief system of course. Ultimately you cannot know anymore than anyone else if it is sane. Everyone is best guessing and this includes you. Almost everyone on earth thinks the other guy's beliefs are irrational. I'm truly amazed you don't grok this at your age.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 15 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: Icelander]
#16584425 - 07/25/12 06:58 AM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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To illustrate Icelanders (three cheers for punishing those bankers and politicians) point;
Quote:
The fundy says, and I paraphrase because I can't remember exactly: 'Maybe God puts a force-field of some kind around the Sun so that it simply looks larger. Maybe, the Sun, and the stars, are no larger than a basketball...' OK. He used a sci-fi term, 'force-field,' and then, the illogic behind basketball-sized Sun and stars simply manifested delusional, or infantile magical thinking.
This is no more delusional than any other belief. Seeing is believing. Look at the sun, it looks about the size of a basket ball, keep looking and you will see the force field. Eggheads write down a whole lot of numbers that mean really really big and far away, like my enlightenment, and so really really small, so fucking what? it just gets bigger and bigger then smaller and smaller unlike my higher purchase debt. Fundys are the most small minded dicks though. Most would be horrified at the suggestion of worshiping the sun. But like those strawberries, all is of god, the sun is the son of god, the sun of god is in heaven just look and see. The fundy does worship the sun but he can't see it.
The old testament clearly states that there is nothing new under the sun, then there is the new testament. Now we know that there is nothing new about the new testament.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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usulpsychonaut
Hungry Ghost
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1,568
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 15 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Are any of you guys into real psychology? [Re: usulpsychonaut]
#16584436 - 07/25/12 07:08 AM (9 months, 18 days ago) |
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Real psychology is my experience, not some stuck up writing a pile of essays then handing out pills. Therapy is not for change, its the journey. In my experience, soul psychology is the stream that I value most.
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In every winter there's a different cold
in every winter I feel so old
so very old as the night
so very old as the dreadful cold
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