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 S.T.E
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Registered: 04/06/11
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 Water in jars (really frustrating) 
#16485551 - 07/05/12 06:24 PM (10 months, 13 days ago) |
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I'm making BRF cakes. The last few times I've used the pressure cooker, too much water has gotten in the jars. The last batch of cakes ended up with bacterial contam and had to be tossed. I just finished a pressure cooking run, I took great pains and did everything right (that I know of). I put just a bit over an inch of water in, I'm afraid of putting in too little since I had to junk a pressure cooker when the water ran out. I used utensils and plates under the metal plate to elevate the cakes above the water, and used aluminum foil and rubber bands around the jars (2 layers and 3 bands) to stop water getting in. Unfortunately, alot of water got in again anyway. I don't know what to do. I think major pieces of the problem are the 4 holes I drilled in the lid of the mason jars for use in injecting spores, water might have gotten in through those, but I followed directions there. I used to put aluminum foil underneath the lids, but this opens the possibility of water getting in through as well, and in bigger amount and people here said that wasn't the right approach. I don't know what to do here, I did everything right and too much water still got in.
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16485567 - 07/05/12 06:26 PM (10 months, 13 days ago) |
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If you are PCing them, and they still have excess water, even though you are sealing the lids, then you are adding too much water to the BRF. There is no other way the water would get in there. At least thats what I am thinking.
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MOPE
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16485604 - 07/05/12 06:34 PM (10 months, 13 days ago) |
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I use a small single layer of tinfoil on my jars and my jars never have excess water content...
How can you tell that a lot of water is getting in, is there standing water in the jar after the PC? Is it soggy after and not before? There are a lot of other steps where you could be throwing off your moisture content
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S.T.E
Stranger
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16489046 - 07/06/12 09:17 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said:
If you are PCing them, and they still have excess water, even though you are sealing the lids, then you are adding too much water to the BRF. There is no other way the water would get in there. At least thats what I am thinking.
That definitely may have occurred last time, but would that explain why some of the dry vermiculite had gotten wet and fallen down on the sides, and why there was a whole lot of congealed mixture both on the bottom and on the sides, but apparently not so much in the middle? I can definitely have less water in the mixture this time, but I think it might be good to fix some small bits of aluminum foil over the 4 holes. Can I use masking tape for that or will it melt?
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489063 - 07/06/12 09:22 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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If you've got a PC then just use tyvek/polyfill with self-healing injection ports and forget the dry verm layer....you could even go grains
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S.T.E
Stranger
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: GoldenArrow]
#16489180 - 07/06/12 10:03 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenArrow said:
If you've got a PC then just use tyvek/polyfill with self-healing injection ports and forget the dry verm layer....you could even go grains
I'm a pretty primitive shroomer, I don't even know what any of that means, other than the alternate grains, which from what I've read requires a great deal of complication.
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase
Registered: 10/05/11
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489195 - 07/06/12 10:11 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Surprised you've not heard of any of that, you've been on here over a year 
Grains are arguably easier than cakes, once you get the moisture right...
Here's some reading:
Lids (can be used for anything)
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10628004/fpart/1/vc/1
RR Grain tek
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation
Damion Coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
TL's One flush wonder tubs:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14507008#14507008
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S.T.E
Stranger
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: GoldenArrow]
#16489463 - 07/06/12 11:53 AM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Yeah, its because this type of stuff (following long lists of directions, things involving finesse, etc) aren't strengths of mine and I wanted to keep this as simple as possible, with as small a list of ingredients as possible.
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase
Registered: 10/05/11
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489507 - 07/06/12 12:09 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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In that case, a rye grain jar has one less ingredient than a PF tek jar 
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S.T.E
Stranger
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: GoldenArrow]
#16489523 - 07/06/12 12:12 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenArrow said:
In that case, a rye grain jar has one less ingredient than a PF tek jar
Its not more complicated a process or require more conditions to produce mushrooms with the rye method?
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GoldenArrow
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489552 - 07/06/12 12:18 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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I'd say different, not more complicated.....although, thinking about it, one of the benefits of PF tek is that you have room to make an error and lose 1 or 2 jars instead of the whole grow. Since you're having moisture problems with PF tek, I'd suggest trying again and making them dryer. You could even do 2 or 3 batches of slightly different moisture mix to get a feel for it.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489672 - 07/06/12 12:58 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
The last few times I've used the pressure cooker, too much water has gotten in the jars.
Water doesn't get in the jars if they're totally out of the pressure cooker's water. You're probably using course verm, but following the recipe for fine verm, which holds more water.
RR
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S.T.E
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#16489781 - 07/06/12 01:27 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
The last few times I've used the pressure cooker, too much water has gotten in the jars.
Water doesn't get in the jars if they're totally out of the pressure cooker's water. You're probably using course verm, but following the recipe for fine verm, which holds more water.
RR
The water boils in a pressure cooker, right? So couldn't water get higher due to the boil, high enough for some to get in?
I don't know the difference between fine and course vermiculite, I've merely put water in until you can see a small excess in the bottom, than added a bit more dry that was set aside. It did occur to me I could have used too much water the last couple of times, but that wouldn't explain why some of the vermiculite had appeared to have become very wet and had fallen down along the sides.
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 Notahacker420
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489794 - 07/06/12 01:32 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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At 15psi...if the wieght is rocking like twice a minute....ur keeping the water on the edge of boiling or not boiling....this is why its important not to constatly have steam pouring out of the pc, because that would mean that its boiling too much.
If i am wrong someone please correct me
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: S.T.E]
#16489875 - 07/06/12 01:59 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
S.T.E said:
The water boils in a pressure cooker, right? So couldn't water get higher due to the boil, high enough for some to get in?
If the jars are totally out of the water, it won't boil violently enough for water to splash up and get into the jars. If they're too wet and they were totally out of the water during the PC cycle, then they were too wet from the time you made them up.
RR
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 36fuckin5
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#16489922 - 07/06/12 02:09 PM (10 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
S.T.E said:
The water boils in a pressure cooker, right? So couldn't water get higher due to the boil, high enough for some to get in?
If the jars are totally out of the water, it won't boil violently enough for water to splash up and get into the jars. If they're too wet and they were totally out of the water during the PC cycle, then they were too wet from the time you made them up.
RR
This.
What I've seen done to combat this problem before is to use a double layer of bands under your PC's rack, then just fill the water to where it barely covers the rack.
If I were you, I'd make a couple batches of cakes. Make one exactly the same way you did before. In the other, use a bit less water (use the squeeze test to find field capacity) and PC them both as the same time using the double layer of bands under your rack.
If they all get too wet, it's from too much water in the PC. If only half get wet, it's from too much water in your substrate.
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parsleysprigs
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#18051353 - 04/03/13 10:39 AM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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I'm having this exact same problem, I've tried making my mix very dry to compensate. My mix feels totally dry when I squeeze it but I know waters in there because I put it and it's so dry it don't even condensate on the inside of the jar when I fill em up. I'm thinking the shape of the steamer or pc'r might cause dripping on the jars if it's too flat or has some kind of divet such at the steam release valve which might collect and drop water right above jars. Also I've been trying to work through the winter but I think the temperature might be messing up moisture as well.
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first time expert
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Re: Water in jars (really frustrating) [Re: parsleysprigs]
#18051457 - 04/03/13 11:25 AM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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you put foil on your jars right? I found if I press the foil on really good, try a twisting motion as you hold the top, then run a strip of tape around the foil it will stop water/steam from getting under your foil and into your jars. And make sure your jars are out of the water completely.
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