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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,482
Loc: underbelly
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 Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) 
#16460606 - 06/30/12 03:17 PM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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But someone I truly admire said it better than I can so I'm going to quote him. (This quote comes right after a scathing attack on modern american unions. )
Honesty, as a Quaintly Outmoded Concept
"I realize that a lot of people feel that speaking out against Unions is almost Un-American. I remind them: not all of America is Unionized-in fact, the vast majority of Americans are not- and glad about it.
Some people fear that if the unions were to vanish, the labor situation would return to what it was in the beginning, with child labor and sweatshops. I agree with them. Large employers do tend toward unscrupulous behavior when nobody is looking over their shoulder.
So what's the bottom line here? I would like to see more honesty in business-at both ends of the table. Honesty in US business appears to be at it's lowest ebb in history.
There are a number of reasons for that. When political leaders do not demonstrate honesty, when people lie constantly in the media - everybody gets used to the "Big Lie" as a way of life. At that point honest becomes a quaintly outmoded concept - nobody wants to be honest anymore, because if they are, they might finish last.
I would say that today dishonesty is the rule and honesty the exception. It could be, statistically, that more people are honest than dishonest, but the few that really control things are not honest, and that tips the balance.
I don't think we have an honest president. I don't think he is surrounded by honest people. I don't believe that most people in the Congress or in the Senate are honest. We have let them get away with it because we're not honest enough to face up to the fact that we are "owned and operated" by a bunch of really bad people" - Frank Zappa - The Real Frank Zappa Book - copyright 1989.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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 Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,305
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 2 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: Icelander]
#16461312 - 06/30/12 06:03 PM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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What makes you think people are less honest now than they used to be? If anything, I would say people are more honest as the way we now share information holds people accountable more often.
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,482
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: Memories]
#16461349 - 06/30/12 06:11 PM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Where in this post did I say people are less honest today then a few years ago when this was written?
It's fine to disagree as I expect a lot of that as I did say it's subjective However its not ok to put words in my mouth. 
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Memories
Manic Hedonist
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 5,305
Loc: behind you
Last seen: 2 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: Icelander]
#16461395 - 06/30/12 06:22 PM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Honesty in US business appears to be at it's lowest ebb in history.
Maybe you didn't say it, but the quote your talking up did.
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"I noticed that the feeling from mxe is better when you refrain from masturbating a day or two before, a few times when I masturbated before usage I got this WEIRD look in my eyes and it caused me to not be able to have eye contact with people, my eyes were more squinted and my face looked more puffy, but without masterbating that day or the day before I felt great, it actually felt somewhat like a different drug.
Anyone notice this?"
- Chowder963
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,482
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: Memories]
#16461416 - 06/30/12 06:27 PM (11 months, 12 days ago) |
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Well he was older than I was. However I don't think anything as changed much in politics, for instance, throughout human history at least from some of the stuff I've read about ancient history. Although there would be some slight variations I think.
Anyway you're right that he did say that, it's a minor point however imo. I think he's wrong if he thought that. One of the interesting things about aging is you often get a new perspective but still hold out a belief in the ones of your youth. He just probably wasn't fully aware of how awful things can be when younger and so thought things were better then.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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falcon
In the green
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 5,873
Last seen: 19 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: Icelander]
#16461953 - 06/30/12 09:03 PM (11 months, 11 days ago) |
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Dueling should be socially and legally acceptable for elected officials, it might not improve things, but it would be a lot more interesting than professional sports and would mean that at least some politicians would do something meaningful for me.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,482
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: falcon] 1
#16463722 - 07/01/12 07:41 AM (11 months, 11 days ago) |
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btw I highly recommend his biography. He has a lot to say about politicians, unions and religious leaders and humanity in general. And music of course, what an amazing, cool guy imo. This country could use a hundred million like him imo. Zappa is God!
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,733
Last seen: 20 minutes, 4 seconds
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: Icelander]
#16464227 - 07/01/12 11:34 AM (11 months, 11 days ago) |
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,482
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why I often opt out of politics, business, unions (a subjective opinion) [Re: zappaisgod]
#16464345 - 07/01/12 12:08 PM (11 months, 11 days ago) |
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I just watched them play that on The Dub Room Special DVD last night. What a knock out band.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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