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Offlineken1993
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mushroom crystal extraction help
    #16444579 - 06/27/12 12:08 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Hey guys,

I recently attempted deoxy.org's alkaloid exaction , however failed due to the fact I stupidly used powder and it turned into a sort of
mud and could not be filtered, resulting in the smallest and tiniest specks of crystal that you could only see when reflected with light.
So ANYWAY I decided to ask some questions before I go ahead and attempt the extract with proper  mushrooms this time:

Firstly, for this tech I used methylated spirits (which was the highest proof I could find, due to the fact I live in Melbourne, Australia).


methylated spirits i'm using

So I was wondering if there are any Australians here that know where to find a higher (purer?) proof? (I've read some tech's
were people have used methanol, chloroform and other chemicals with successful extractions so I'm pretty sure that
methylated spirits is fine, however correct me if I'm wrong)

Secondly, in the tech they indicated that you should keep the jar in a warm bath for 7 hours. Does this mean keep the
"bath" (I used a pot filled with water and had the jar sitting inside resting on some towels as my "bath") constantly
warm on the stove? and do I even have the "bath" part right?

Jar in the bath?

Also just wondering if there's anything else that will give me a 'purer' batch of crystals. Even though I have checked with friends who
are studying chemistry and sciences at Uni at the moment, I want to just double check with you guys and hopefully someone on
here who has successfully made some crystals.

Thanks,
Ken1993


Edited by ken1993 (06/27/12 12:24 PM)


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InvisibleLucid Dreaming
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: ken1993]
    #16444631 - 06/27/12 12:25 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

first of all that site recommended 190 proof ethanol alcohol, and what your using is 190 proof alcohol. So according to the extraction method your using, you got the solvent right. A warm batch is exactly as you have done, you added the jar to a tub of war water. The towels was a great idea to keep the glass from shattering due to high heats. Once you bring down the temp of the solution to precipitate the alkaloids, its always best to recover your alkaloids, then evaporate 1/4 of your liquid and then refreeze. This will insure that the liquid is at full capacity.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16444954 - 06/27/12 01:43 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Everything sounds right.
Remember a dose of psilocybin is only like 15-25mg so the amount you will get is pretty small unless you do a large batch.

When grinding to a powder it's best to do a pressure extract first.  Find some mesh or cheese cloth to wrap the mud up in and squeeze.  Then run it through a standard filter.

Heat is important at the beginning and it should be warm while filtering to keep all the goodies dissolved in the alcohol.

While most will come through on the first pull, it's always good to do the tek at least twice to your mush.  Someone else will need to confirm but I believe when using ethanol you want it to have some water, pure doesn't extract as well as slightly aqueous.

To get really pure crystal you will need to recrystalize while it will give you a purer product, it will also give you less as some always remains in solution.


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Offlineken1993
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: StygianKnight]
    #16448895 - 06/28/12 02:47 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks heaps guys.
The last time I used around 17 doses of powder and i didn't have a cloth or anything at the time to filter it properly, so now i'm properly equipped! i'm going to properly try again this in the next week or so.


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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: ken1993]
    #16449376 - 06/28/12 06:29 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Don't forget to do it properly!


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InvisibleNevermind
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16449417 - 06/28/12 06:47 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I was under the impression that methylated spirits (denatured alcohol) is no good for extractions as it may leave dangerous impurities. I may be wrong on that though.

Anyway, you can buy 95% rectified polish spirits online but it's fairly expensive. I imagine that would be a better alternative to methylated spirits though. You can also buy this at some Dan Murphy's locations.

http://www.beerstore.com.au/spirits/spirit-liqueur/polish-pure-spirit-rectified-spirit-95



Quote:

But the numbers with psilocin are strange. With aqueous ethanol, the optimum extraction was with a 70% ethanol concentration, and the extraction efficiency dropped almost to zero when there was no water present. But methanol was extremely inefficient regardless of the amount of water present in it. These researchers were apparently surprised by these findings, as they explored further and uncovered other clues. Time is a factor. Psilocin is extracted at a much slower rate than is psilocybin because it is contained intracellularly in the plant, and thus slower to be gotten out. They conclude that many of the low psilocin assays of mushrooms are due to this difficulty of getting the alkaloid out of the plant and into the extracting solvent. Using this information they determined that the levels of psilocybin and psilocin are substantially the same in Psilocybe bohemica, in conflict with the published literature values where very small amounts of psilocin were observed.





You might also want to try with some Bacardi 151. Should be a lot easier to get a hold of and according to what I quoted above is the most efficient for psilocin extractions.


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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nevermind]
    #16449711 - 06/28/12 09:24 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Nevermind has a point, I thought methylated spirits was the name of an Australian liquor company. Like Skyy Vodka.


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OfflineInvisibleHunter
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Lucid Dreaming]
    #16449751 - 06/28/12 09:42 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I'm pretty sure the Diggers brand is just ethanol plus bittering agents. You might be able to find an MSDS or ingredients list if you look around the net though.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nevermind]
    #16450817 - 06/28/12 02:16 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Methylated spirits are a combination of ethanol (normal alcohol) and methanol (poisonous alcohol) so you don't want to drink it.
The extraction works fine with methanol and as long as you remember to fully dry your product before consumption it's fine.  The same goes for most solvents used in extraction or cleaning.


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InvisibleprettyMushy

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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: StygianKnight]
    #16450890 - 06/28/12 02:30 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

i wouldnt do it, =) just enjoy your shrooms with a lemon tek, why exactly are you attempting this? just because?


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Offlineken1993
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: prettyMushy]
    #16463681 - 07/01/12 07:15 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Unfortunately I'm not rich enough to get something like that :P although I did see it at my local Dan Murphies so at least I know that it's there, so thank you for that.

I've nearly got all the equipment to start propagating mushies at home so I'll probably attempt this again once I have a few growing. And @prettyMushy, I'm really just doing it to see if I can and to see how the trip flows and really just because I'm curious :laugh:

Also, with the whole water thing, does that pretty much mean that if I don't dry out the mushrooms completely and keep them sort of semi-moist (then chop and dice them) that it'll allow me to gain more extract from the mushrooms?

thanks heaps


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nevermind]
    #16463906 - 07/01/12 09:16 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nevermind said:
I was under the impression that methylated spirits (denatured alcohol) is no good for extractions as it may leave dangerous impurities. I may be wrong on that though.




No you are absolutely correct.  And substituting methylated alcohol could be a deadly mistake!  Methyl alcohol is added to ethanol (drinkable alcohol) to make it poisonous and undrinkable by humans.  DO NOT drink or use methyl alcohol containing products in ANY project designed for human consumption.

****************OP:  DO NOT USE THAT METHYLATED PRODUCT.  DO NOT CONSUME ANYTHING MADE WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***************************

Methyl alcohol is added to ethyl alcohol to poison it so that the companies that produce it do not incur the >>>TAX<<< placed on the sale of ethyl alcohol imposed on LIQUOR companies.

Methyl alcohol is absolute POISON to the human brain!!!!!  What you want is 190 proof ethyl alcohol.  Stuff like high proof vodka or Everclear in the USA.

N.B.


Edited by Nature Boy (07/01/12 09:22 AM)


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Offlineken1993
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16464086 - 07/01/12 10:39 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

yeah it sounds logical and i thought that as well, but I've read on so many techs and forums of people using just methanol (some people have even used chloroform) to extract crystals. I also read on erowid that (not 100% sure, this is just from memory) the methanol extracts psilocin and ethanol extracts the psilocybe. So i'm kind of confused, because I'm pretty sure in the last few steps you evaporate the alcohol completely... but then again i could be wrong.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: ken1993]
    #16464125 - 07/01/12 10:53 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Whew.  Glad you got the message.  Believe HALF of what you read, and NOTHING that you hear.  When it comes to self-made products intended for human consumption, you MUST be sure of your facts and materials.

Even "food safe" products, when combined improperly, can result in a compound that will sicken, or even has the potential to KILL you.  If you do not FULLY understand what you are doing and what the potential pitfalls and mistakes are, keep reading and asking until you do.

I'm glad you had enough sense to seek opinions and avoid a potentially catastrophic mistake here.  Well done.  Now toss that methylated shit out (or use it for paint thinner) and get yourself some high-proof vodka for your project.  It'll do quite nicely.

N.B.


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Offlineken1993
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16464619 - 07/01/12 01:09 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

yeah i guess that's true, i'm probably going to ask around even more and all, because I know erowid is a very trusted source and it contains heaps of information regarding a lot of things and I also have a few friends studying chemistry and science that can will be able to help (once they're on break from their course). The thing is that it probably won't be worth the time and money to buy something that contains a high proof of ethanol, but i'm definitely not going to do it if there's health risks.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: ken1993]
    #16464962 - 07/01/12 02:19 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Wow...as if to make my point (above) even more real - someone posted this to the Shroomery News Service.  It seems a less than professional "home chemist" inadvertently F'ed up and now two kids are dead.  What a shame!  :sad:  :facepalm:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16464369

N.B.


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Edited by Nature Boy (07/01/12 02:21 PM)


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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16465041 - 07/01/12 02:38 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

In all fairness Methanol and alcohol both evaporate completely. This thread is not about drinking the product, but rather its use as a solvent. Because of it potential for harm, I agree that 95% ethanol  would be the safer route. I just don't see any real harm is using a ethanol/methanol solvent mixture.


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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nature Boy] * 1
    #16465080 - 07/01/12 02:47 PM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
No you are absolutely correct.  And substituting methylated alcohol could be a deadly mistake!



:facepalm3:

Methanol is safe to use as a solvent for extractions so long as it is evaporated before consumption.  Clearly you shouldn't drink it.
Methanol is not directly dangerous to the body, it must take a pass through the liver where it's converted to formaldehyde which is quite poisonous.
Please stop scarring people.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: StygianKnight]
    #16468944 - 07/02/12 06:38 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

Did you read the actual tek the OP posted?  It calls for Everclear.  Ethanol, not methanol.

When given a choice between two solvents, one of which is COMPLETELY safe, and one of which has the potential for severe harm if improperly handled (PS...the off-gassing methyl VAPORS are poisonous too, not just any possible residue!) why on EARTH would you ever chose the later over the former???

I stick by my advice.  Chose the entirely SAFE solvent.

N.B.


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All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me (SWIM) -  and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I no longer answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend, so don't bother.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread...no exceptions.  Anyone with less than 1,000 posts is automatically assumed to be a cop.
                                                                               


Edited by Nature Boy (07/02/12 06:39 AM)


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Offlineken1993
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Re: mushroom crystal extraction help [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16542781 - 07/17/12 02:03 AM (2 years, 3 months ago)

I'm going to definitely use just ethanol and I'm definitely not going to be handing this out to people so I know nobody's going to get killed :tongue: and anyway I've got a few friends that I'm consulting (who are studying chemistry) and as long as all the solvent has evaporated then it's safe. I understand that there are incredibly stupid people but I can gladly say I'm not one of them!


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