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imachavel said:
where does it say in the constitution that companies have the right to take money from the treasury, mostly deposited by tax payers, and give it as a private investment in the form of billions to companies that need bail outs, in private transactions, to corporations who own private assets, that are guarded privately, and all information is private, including their taxes, mark ups, etc.?

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Yet people bitch about this health care plan, saying tax payers pay for it more then ever, I've heard more complaints about this then I have over any bail out.

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Obamacare is not as bad as you think. I have a friend, he makes a good ton of money a year, but fucking medicare is expensive, shit, do you think Medicare costs you less then $100,000 a year if you have serious health issues? He has a serious back problem, and can't pay to be operated on by more then interns, because of the cost of surgery. He has had several surgeries on his back, they've removed a disk, and now he has another disk pressing on a cyadic nerve. He can't move, he has to pee in bottles and shit because he can't get up for more then an hour a day, without getting in a state where the pain is so intense, he needs morphine and needs to be transported to the E.R. in an ambulance.

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Now on the other hand, he might get on a plan soon, because of Obama care, where because of his credit, he can get surgery done by real surgeons, who agree he was operated on incorrectly by interns. He almost sued the interns, but couldn't afford a lawyer. Now because of obamacare, most everything he needs will be paid for, out of state. I'm not sure if it's out of state because this state doesn't support obamacare, or if it's because of a VA status requirement, or what. Obamacare though is going to pay for everything, since he has very good credit, but doesn't make more then $100,000 a year.

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Now if your taxes go towards schools, police, fire stations, why not hospitals as well? You think that plus social security is unfair, but you think that bail outs are cool? Not saying you specifically, but I've seen a large class of people that seem to not mind throwing their taxes in and seeing big companies get 'bailed out' for billions, because the money will be paid back, and also because it "creates jobs", but then bitch about obamacare up and down.

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I have to say, I could care less if GE in India was failing, and got 8 billion for nothing, as a fucking bonus or whatever. And people saying lobbyists don't profit from that shit, that it's completely unrelated, yeah, depends what lobbyists you are addressing. I would much rather see a loved one get treated, and know I don't have to pay extra tax money, that the tax money I already spend will go towards health care for sick people, then feel like my money goes towards a billion dollar bail out to a company over sees, or to pay back China, or some horse shit like that. Anyone agree?

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skyekitty said:
Here Here!

Its real name is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Wouldn't you say that healthcare has become an institution of interstate commerce? Hospitals buy and sells things across border lines, as do insurance companies. Personally I agree I don't think healthcare is a federal issue, it should be left up to the states, that would encourage competition and better services, however some states would not be as well off, the only way to make all services equal is to federalize it. I wish there was another way.

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The railroads were not a federal infrastructure project, Congress supported it with 30-year U.S. government bonds and extensive land grants of government-owned land, but the rights to the railroad were privately held by the two corporations who built the lines. At the time corporations were very rare. Federal money had never been employed to build infrastructure before. They were later appropriated by the federal government, I think this is what they aim to do with healthcare.

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imachavel said:
oh it's hilarious to me how you state that public ally held corporations are required to make extensive disclosure. It's even funny how you used that word, "extensive disclosure", not only are they required to make disclosure, but it must be EXTENSIVE as well

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or so you say. Who am I to call what you call "extensive disclosure" bullshit anyway, I don't pay as many taxes as you, or so you say. According to you, the bail outs have been a net gain for the tax payer

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whatever you say Zappa, whatever you say. 14 trillion is a great net gain, oh no but the bail outs didn't effect that at all

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I'll make sure to vote republican

Gary Johnson is not a republican. You think Mitt Romney is going to rock? You think Rick Sanctorum is going to rock? You think Ron Paul is going to rock? You think Newt Gingrich is going to rock? Have fun voting

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I'm sure we've all been well satisfied by your advice. Btw, when you break your leg, there is just as good of a chance that the fire truck will show up as an ambulance, my tax money has to pay for that, if you fuck up driving to bid on a job, or get hurt on the site itself. Fuck what your insurance will pay for, my tax dollars have to pay for that fire trucks gasoline every time it leaves the station. Why don't you justify why it has to?

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Not Quite Social said:
The US Can afford global mobilization of troops and equipment including stealth helicopters, nuclear submarines, and drone bombers.

What about thyroid medication for an American 6 year old, if his parents can't afford it and don't have health benefits through their employers?

Why not choose healthcare over military & war spending?

Why does this simple moral question have to be falsely abstracted into "Defense" (which it is clearly not--it's offense) versus an "Unconstitutional Mandate" to purchase healthcare?  That's needlessly warped and confusing.

The issue is clear: should US tax dollars be spent on killing foreigners or taking care of sick Americans?

What an easy question to answer.  It's really not a morally or philosophically deep question.  You're either wicked and support war profiteering, or you're morally righteous and support the health of your neighbor.  There's more nuance to it than that, sure.  But there's plenty of nuance to the military and war spending too, yet the US manages to capably overthrow and occupy foreign countries.  They can manage healthcare.  They already do it for soldiers and vets.

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imachavel said:
where does it say in the constitution that companies have the right to take money from the treasury, mostly deposited by tax payers, and give it as a private investment in the form of billions to companies that need bail outs, in private transactions, to corporations who own private assets, that are guarded privately, and all information is private, including their taxes, mark ups, etc.?

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Yet people bitch about this health care plan, saying tax payers pay for it more then ever, I've heard more complaints about this then I have over any bail out. Obamacare is not as bad as you think. I have a friend, he makes a good ton of money a year, but fucking medicare is expensive, shit, do you think Medicare costs you less then $100,000 a year if you have serious health issues? He has a serious back problem, and can't pay to be operated on by more then interns, because of the cost of surgery. He has had several surgeries on his back, they've removed a disk, and now he has another disk pressing on a cyadic nerve. He can't move, he has to pee in bottles and shit because he can't get up for more then an hour a day, without getting in a state where the pain is so intense, he needs morphine and needs to be transported to the E.R. in an ambulance.

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Now on the other hand, he might get on a plan soon, because of Obama care, where because of his credit, he can get surgery done by real surgeons, who agree he was operated on incorrectly by interns. He almost sued the interns, but couldn't afford a lawyer. Now because of obamacare, most everything he needs will be paid for, out of state. I'm not sure if it's out of state because this state doesn't support obamacare, or if it's because of a VA status requirement, or what. Obamacare though is going to pay for everything, since he has very good credit, but doesn't make more then $100,000 a year.

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Now if your taxes go towards schools, police, fire stations, why not hospitals as well? You think that plus social security is unfair, but you think that bail outs are cool?

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imachavel said:
Same thing with car insurance. It's not as though you need some policy that states the first 5 years you drive, you need insurance, until you can prove you have no accident liability, and then you aren't required to pay for insurance until you get into an accident.

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Car insurance works that you need to pay for it, whether you want it, or don't want it, need it, or don't need it. And the amount of tickets and accidents you get in have nothing to do with whether you are required to buy insurance or not. It works more as a credit score works, the more tickets you get, the higher your insurance becomes. What does getting a ticket have to do with insurance anyway?

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I'll admit required Obama care health INSURANCE is a total waste of time, and to be honest just about everything Obama touches he fucks up. I'm saying guaranteed health care, even if paid for by the tax payer, is a great system. To me no REQUIRED HEALTH INSURANCE IS WORTH IT, and Obama fucked up on that part. But you must admit, the way they have health care structured up in England is one of the many things that, imho, make England a much better country then our country. Of course, it doesn't seem we followed their example. Or maybe we did, we followed all their fuck ups, and didn't learn from any of the things they've implemented that have had positive effects.

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imachavel said:
How the fuck do you know what I do and don't pay for? I could make 20 times the money you do, and pay 1800 times the taxes you pay, and not go on here babbling about all the money I'm responsible for.

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I see things from a different perspective then you do. And local? Yeah my paid taxes go to local government expenses. Like 700 billion out the treasury to bail out fuck twits in the auto industry.

Do my taxes count up to 700 billion after local expenses are deducted? Fuck no. Neither do yours. Hurts any ways.

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