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 ayamichelle
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 PC Sterilizing Rye Grain 
#16441441 - 06/26/12 06:23 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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in the "5 steps to perfect grain spawn" video, RR loads the 10 quart jars into the pressure cooker. he doesnt mention what the water level ought to be. anybody know how much water i should put in the pressure cooker?
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16441450 - 06/26/12 06:25 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Follow your manufacturers instructions.
I usually put about 2 inches of water in there, but all PCs can vary.
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BjJiggles
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16441454 - 06/26/12 06:25 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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It varies depending on the size pc and the model... U just want enough so that it doesn't dry up mid-run....
Mine takes 3qt's refer to your owners manual...
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 Thadeous
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: BjJiggles]
#16441463 - 06/26/12 06:28 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Indeed, an inch and change is usually fine, it'll only be in there for ~90 minutes anyways, just make sure you don't run it at full blast.
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Thadeous]
#16441467 - 06/26/12 06:29 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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^^^^yup yup. 15 psi only. start timing it AT 15psi. and watch to make sure it doesnt go over. you will have to find the sweet spot on the stoves knob for this to work. It becomes super easy after the first couple of times.
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ayamichelle
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16441490 - 06/26/12 06:36 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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tnx guys. ya see, i just bought the all american 921. but, i've never used a pressure cooker in my life. YES - i will most certainly read the instructions that came with it. but, i wanted to make sure that those instructions are applicable to sterilizing quart rye grain jars!
ok, so, i'll put a couple inches of water in it. i assume that a pressure cooker is different from an open steamer in that most of the water doesnt evaporate since that cooker is sealed - right?
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KaptKid
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 Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16441506 - 06/26/12 06:39 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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AA 921 will hold 10 qt jars.
Great investment.
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BjJiggles
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: KaptKid]
#16441534 - 06/26/12 06:44 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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It will lose water, but not as much, when it reaches 15psi, it lets steam escape to maintain that pressure.
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ayamichelle
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: KaptKid]
#16441536 - 06/26/12 06:44 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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yeah tnx - i looked at a lot of PCs at various stores. they all seemed cheap and overall too small. so, i bought the 921 on amazon and, when it arrived, i was like HOLY SHIT - this thing is a freakin' tool. a heavy duty MF
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Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: KaptKid]
#16441557 - 06/26/12 06:50 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Some water will escape through a relief valve. They key is to have enough to last the whole PC time, but not boil the jars. just read the instructions, and you will have it down.
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Thadeous
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16441576 - 06/26/12 06:56 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Yeah that 921 is a serious beast. My PC is small so I am stuck to doing multiple loads of 4 jars at a time. Get lots of PC experience points however. lol.
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Seanfu
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: KaptKid]
#16441581 - 06/26/12 06:57 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
KaptKid said:
AA 921 will hold 10 qt jars.
Great investment.
Just got mine, holds 7, under half the price. Go presto if youre not professional.
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Notahacker420
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16441625 - 06/26/12 07:08 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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presto 23 quart should hold 10 quart jars right?
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BjJiggles
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I have a presto 16qt and it holds 7qts... Idk bout the 23... I really like mine for the price
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Seanfu
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
presto 23 quart should hold 10 quart jars right?
Just got one, it only holds 7. I think its just very tall and thats the difference.
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BjJiggles
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16442019 - 06/26/12 08:19 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Yeah, the 16qt doesn't have a lot of clearance above the qt jars.
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yutaka
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: BjJiggles]
#16442174 - 06/26/12 08:56 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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23 at Presto holds 10 qt jars. 7 standing up and 3 on their side.
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Seanfu
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: yutaka]
#16442202 - 06/26/12 09:00 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
yutaka said:
23 at Presto holds 10 qt jars. 7 standing up and 3 on their side.
is that alright to do? I thought it would wet the filter?
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16442235 - 06/26/12 09:06 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
yutaka said:
23 at Presto holds 10 qt jars. 7 standing up and 3 on their side.
is that alright to do? I thought it would wet the filter?
Your filter will dry out when you take them out. You should have the lids of all of them covered tightly with foil, so as not to get moisture from the PC in there.
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yutaka
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16442243 - 06/26/12 09:09 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Just put aluminum foil over your lids.
I've never had a problem with it.
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: yutaka]
#16442246 - 06/26/12 09:10 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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^^^^^ exactly.
I usually put my foil UNDER the lid ring now. It makes a really solid seal against moisture getting in.
--------------------
**Fuck cops: I dont cultivate anything**
END MISINFORMATION!! READ AND LEARN BEFORE YOU SAY ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING!! IT HURTS OTHERS!!
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yutaka
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16442296 - 06/26/12 09:21 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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What I meant is to put aluminum foil over the lid and band. I would not recommend putting it under the band and over the lid.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. as long as you have a bit of coverage with the foil you'll be fine.
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PureHash
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16442300 - 06/26/12 09:22 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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You want the weight to only toggle once every few minutes, this way you know your not boiling off all of your water. Basically just under 15psi is what you want. You are not cooking, you are sterilizing, using a pressure cooker as an autoclave.
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16442310 - 06/26/12 09:24 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
I would not recommend putting it under the band and over the lid.
Why not? Its working great for me so far.
Quote:
You want the weight to only toggle once every few minutes, this way you know your not boiling off all of your water. Basically just under 15psi is what you want. You are not cooking, you are sterilizing, using a pressure cooker as an autoclave.
Yeah. I agree. My PC, for example, the weight always wiggles and spills off excess steam/pressure, but it stays right at 15 psi. Each on is different, but yeah. Sterilizing = killing everything possible in there. micro-organism holocaust. haha
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: BjJiggles]
#16442315 - 06/26/12 09:25 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
BjJiggles said:
It will lose water, but not as much, when it reaches 15psi, it lets steam escape to maintain that pressure.
This is improper use of a pressure cooker for sterilizing.
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PureHash
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16442324 - 06/26/12 09:27 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Steam should only escape in really small amounts ever few minutes... Full minutes... This is optimal pressure sterilizing.
My autoclave let's no steam escape. Only "cold air" from the chamber when it is in its cycle, and that's for a very short time.
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16442327 - 06/26/12 09:28 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Thats just how mine works. Havent had any issues so far.
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16442365 - 06/26/12 09:35 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Propper way to use any pressure cooker for sterilizing.
1. Add water and turn on heat, lid on, weight OFF.
This let's steam push "cold air" from the chamber before it's sealed.
2. Let the pressure cooker steam for atleast 5 minutes the gauge should almost read 1psi. At this point put the weight ON
3. Once steam starts to escape from the weight reduce temp until you get a few puffs of steam from the weight every few minutes. This way you don't loose any moisture from your grains while you are sterilizing.
Ask any TC and they will vouch, I'm sure...
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PureHash
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16442371 - 06/26/12 09:36 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Don't get me wrong, it's not the only, it's just the optimal** way.
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BjJiggles
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16442400 - 06/26/12 09:41 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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I don't understand how that's not the proper way...
I didn't say anything about how often it let's off steam, just said that it does..
Any, whether it's a little or a lot, it still let's off steam @ 15psi, therefore it is losing some of its water content through the steam... And like I said, not much... Am I wrong??
BTW I agree with your PC usage instructions... I just didn't go into detail, simply stated a fact..
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Edited by BjJiggles (06/26/12 09:43 PM)
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DJYoshaBYD
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: BjJiggles]
#16442441 - 06/26/12 09:50 PM (10 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
This way you don't loose any moisture from your grains while you are sterilizing.
That makes no sense. If you put a foil seal over the jars before PCing, then no moisture can get in or out of the jar at all, so your grains will not loose any moisture. Your instructions for prep of the pressure cooker are correct, but the thing about losing moisture from grains wont happen if you properly seal your jars.
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PureHash
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
#16445431 - 06/27/12 03:40 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
DJYoshaBYD said:
Quote:
This way you don't loose any moisture from your grains while you are sterilizing.
That makes no sense. If you put a foil seal over the jars before PCing, then no moisture can get in or out of the jar at all, so your grains will not loose any moisture. Your instructions for prep of the pressure cooker are correct, but the thing about losing moisture from grains wont happen if you properly seal your jars.
If you loose water from your pressure cooker, You loose water from your grains.
Ask RR. He will tell you the same thing I just told you... Im not trying to be a dick, Im trying to give correct advice. You want the weight to only let out steam as minimally as possible. Every time your weight toggles, you loose water from the boiling water AND your grains...
Foil "seal" is not a seal at all.. It prevents WATER, not moisture from entering the jar, This being said moisture can escape. It will let some steam escape, but not if your weight isnt spuing mass amounts of steam.. This is *OPTIMAL* not the only way...
As for letting the steam vent at the beginning of your run time, this give an even temperature throughout the vessel. If this isnt done you can have "Cold spots" within that are under the sterilization temps. This can lead to an uneven sterilization.
again, ask RR... He will vouch, just as my autoclaves manual clearly states proper sterilization methods. Dont forget, you are using a pressure cooker, Not a sterilizer... Look up the differences between AA sterilizers, and AA pressure cookers.. The sterilizers have a different "weight" that doesn't let steam escape the same as the cooker does..
Im just stating facts, dont hate me for it..
Quote:
BjJiggles said:
I don't understand how that's not the proper way...
I didn't say anything about how often it let's off steam, just said that it does..
Any, whether it's a little or a lot, it still let's off steam @ 15psi, therefore it is losing some of its water content through the steam... And like I said, not much... Am I wrong??
BTW I agree with your PC usage instructions... I just didn't go into detail, simply stated a fact..
Over the course of a few hours the difference in your grains, and your finishing water level is significant if you have the weight slowly (But constantly) venting steam vs the *Optimal* way.. You will loose almost no moisture from your grains, and you will end with almost the same water level that you started with if you use the way I mentioned.
After a 2 hour run you should notice almost no change in water level if done correctly. If done in-correctly you can end with your PC running dry. So it is quite a bit of evaporation... Try it out for yourself, Then you tell me 
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Edited by PureHash (06/27/12 03:48 PM)
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BjJiggles
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16445879 - 06/27/12 05:04 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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My pc has never run dry and I completely agree with what your saying, I'm simply trying to get thru that I was saying the same thing but in just a few words..
I said it will use less water than a steamer(true)... I said it will still lose a little(true)...
Even you just said in ur post multiple times that it will lose "almost" no water.. Well almost isn't zero, that's all I'm saying, it WILL lose a minimal amout of water content if your weight EVER rocks, it spews air, which contains water particles, simple physics...
I agree the weight should rock every minute or 2.. But the fact is it rocks, and however slight, it still uses a small amount of water... I agree with you to the T... And I see how u interpreted my post, but I think the correct terminology would be that my post was vague and easily misconstrued, not "incorrect." sry for any confusion.
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Seanfu
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16445941 - 06/27/12 05:19 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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I litterally just got my new 23 quart pc and couldnt get it to build pressure because it has a big ass release valvewith no weight on it that release all the fucking pressure. I let it boil for 2 hours, no fucking pressure. What the fuck? How does a pressure cooker build pressure while releasing all the goddamn pressure?
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yutaka
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16445972 - 06/27/12 05:24 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
I litterally just got my new 23 quart pc and couldnt get it to build pressure because it has a big ass release valvewith no weight on it that release all the fucking pressure. I let it boil for 2 hours, no fucking pressure. What the fuck? How does a pressure cooker build pressure while releasing all the goddamn pressure?
You have to put the weight on for the pressure cooker to build pressure. If you don't have a weight you can order one online.
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BjJiggles
Gym seeker
Registered: 03/13/12
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: yutaka]
#16446135 - 06/27/12 06:00 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Yeah, you need a weight, it should come with it tho, did you look thru the box good?
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Alan Rockefeller said:No! Do not feed the type collection of a new species to animals!
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: BjJiggles]
#16446345 - 06/27/12 06:52 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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I swear I missed nothing partswise. I think they expect you to have a fucking industrial oven. I want my money back.
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I am a chronic liar.
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BjJiggles
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16446395 - 06/27/12 07:03 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Take it back, what brand is it?
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Alan Rockefeller said:No! Do not feed the type collection of a new species to animals!
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos
Registered: 11/26/09
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Loc: Brazil
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: BjJiggles]
#16446504 - 06/27/12 07:26 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
BjJiggles said:
Take it back, what brand is it?
presto 23 quart, i ordered it online but used it and it already got that discolorization at the bottom. I think I might be fucked tbh. I considered putting it on an open fire because thats the only way it will build pressure unless I rig the depressure part. I am considering screwing a weight into it.
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I am a chronic liar.
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PureHash
Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 1,072
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16446786 - 06/27/12 08:28 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
Quote:
BjJiggles said:
Take it back, what brand is it?
presto 23 quart, i ordered it online but used it and it already got that discolorization at the bottom. I think I might be fucked tbh. I considered putting it on an open fire because thats the only way it will build pressure unless I rig the depressure part. I am considering screwing a weight into it.
This is where read instructions.... And DO NOT SCREW ANYTHING INTO THE RELIEF!!!!!!! You WILL make a BOMB
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Thadeous
Elevate your soul
Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 711
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Seanfu]
#16446879 - 06/27/12 08:44 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seanfu said:
I swear I missed nothing partswise. I think they expect you to have a fucking industrial oven. I want my money back.
Not to insult your intelligence, but sometimes I forget to lock my lid on (mine has a switch you push up to "lock" the lid on and allow pressure to build).
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PureHash
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: Thadeous]
#16447038 - 06/27/12 09:15 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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You probably threw the weight out.. Its only the size of a Hershys chocolate kiss...
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"Debating with a select few here is like playing chess with the pigeon, No matter how good you are the pigeon will knock over all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory."
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ayamichelle
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: PureHash]
#16447721 - 06/27/12 11:16 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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im sterilizing 10 grain jars in my 921 right now. its been at 15 psi for about 45 minutes now. i was reading what u guys were saying and, i dunno, my release valve (with the weight on) almost continually releases very light puffs of steam, which evaporate pretty much the moment it gets out. i put 3" of water in the PC before i started and i can still hear quite a bit of water boiling in there. again, its maintaining 15, i hear the water boiling, and, well, now i've probably got 40 minutes left. everything seems to me to be working fine. should there REALLY be steam coming out only a couple times per minute??
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Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
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ayamichelle
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16447740 - 06/27/12 11:19 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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oh yeah, and these little puffs of steam that are coming out smell like the rye berries... which i assume is a good thing.
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Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
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ayamichelle
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16449773 - 06/28/12 09:53 AM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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jars turned out BEAUTIFULLY!!!
happy camper;)
after PC, turned off heat and went to sleep. got up this morning and opened the PC - 8 of the 10 jars were perfect - exactly like RR's in the grain spawn video. 2 of the 10 jars were just a little bit wet. i could shake them and they'd bust up and separate. but, hey, 8 out of 10 aint bad as far as i'm concerned.
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Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it. John Lennon
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PureHash
Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 1,072
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: PC Sterilizing Rye Grain [Re: ayamichelle]
#16450707 - 06/28/12 01:52 PM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
ayamichelle said:
oh yeah, and these little puffs of steam that are coming out smell like the rye berries... which i assume is a good thing.
**Bad thing**
This means your moisture is escaping from your berries.
Yes you SHOULD run it with as little steam escaping as possible.. This will prevent moisture loss, and extend the allowable lengths of run time. Pretty much, Your better off running your PC at 14.5 PSI then 15. You should NOT hear the water boiling. It should be just under its boiling point (But above 212* obviously..(Boiling points raise with pressure))
AGAIN... I didnt say anyone elses meathods were WRONG.... I said they were not OPTIMAL. In mycology we should all be aiming for 100% and nothing less... Just try the ***OPTIMAL meathod, you probably wont notice anything to drastic, But there is an improvement.
The ***OPTIMAL*** way is they way any AUTOCLAVE works. Autoclaves are designed to STERILIZE pressure cookers are designed to COOK at faster speeds. You are using a pressure cooker for unintended uses, so you should do so in the way a STERILIZER works.
Do youself(s) a favor, And look up the AA STERILIZERS, and the AA PRESSURE COOKERS. Sterilizers dont release steam the same way. They hold their pressure, and release it only a few times every minute or so, this is ***OPTIMAL***. The only real significant difference is the stainless steel basket that comes with the STERILIZERS. but for the price differnece we use the cookers instead.
When my autoclave runs it doesnt release any pressure.. It fully vents steam untill the temp inside reaches 214*F (2* above the boiling point, or 1PSI) then it closes... This way all "Cold spots" are forced out the bottom, becasue heat rises. Once the chamber closes it builds to the desired pressure, 15-21PSI and holds that temp by adjusting the heat, Not by releiving pressure. You only hear water boiling untill it reaches its setting, At that point it just maintains a constant pressure (temperature).
At the end of its cycle you have 2 options, a quick release for solids, and a slow release for liquids.. If you release the pressure from your cooker/sterilizer before it has cooled, You will steam off all the moisture in your grains, witch is also a bad thing, This is why we let them cool SLOWLY overnight.
From start to finish you should only loose water from the start-up, and from venting steam at the begining of its cycle.
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