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 Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,415
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 Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap?  [Re: Wallflower]
#16440836 - 06/26/12 04:01 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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The way to change the law is to write your congressman...if enough people do that, it will be changed.
Be warned, however, that there will be a whole lot of other people writing those same congressmen in support of the law as written.
You can change the Constitution (which is what the SCOTUS decision was based on) as well if you can get enough like-minded people to write letters.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Rail_Gun said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,858
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Enlil]
#16440929 - 06/26/12 04:27 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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I prefer to wallow in bitchfest. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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 Wallflower
Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 721
Last seen: 8 months, 25 days
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Icelander]
#16440994 - 06/26/12 04:43 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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I suppose I just consider the scenario in which those tasked with representing the people do not represent the people but instead represent their own interests, or the interests of their superiors (from any angle, legal or otherwise).
In such a scenario, the people would not be able to change the laws, as the persons tasked for changing the laws on behalf of the people would not act in accordance with the people (or the majority, rather).
I use AZ as an example, because the people in AZ clearly want to be protected from invaders. They have taken their plea all the way up to the Supreme Court. They have approached the situation through the laws and the persons representing them. The Supreme Court has declared that AZ cannot protect itself, even though the federal government won't protect AZ.
Now what this entire thing has apparently missed is that the federal government is constitutionally required to protect AZ.
Therefore what we have here is selective exercise of the constitution.
So what is AZ to do?
I'm reading here that they should write their state representatives.
Congress isn't doing its job, though.
The executive branch cannot exercise executive privilege to conceal documents unless those documents contain communications with the executive branch. Therefore, the executive branch either can't exercise executive privilege to conceal the F&F documents, or the executive branch lied about having no knowledge of or involvement in F&F. And yet Congress is so busy flaming Holder that they're not even pointing this out. So I don't feel confident writing them a letter, to be honest.
And yet outright anarchy is absolutely a last-resort.
So I'm genuinely asking, anarchy aside, with anarchy meaning AZ defies the SC and defends itself regardless, what options does AZ have? Given the context that their representatives are failing them.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,858
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Wallflower]
#16441132 - 06/26/12 05:12 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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How about having the sense to elect better reps?  They got what they paid for and they will get another chance to blow it in the future and I'm pretty sure they will.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Wallflower]
#16441156 - 06/26/12 05:19 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wallflower said:
I read about that sniper guy. Was pretty creepy shit.
I'm honestly not sure how we as average people can fight to change the law, honestly.
vote out the elected officials, petition the new elected officials to
strike down laws that offer protection for illegal acts such as murder
for federal law enforcement, allow those federal cops to stand trial, if
they are found not guilty by a jury then that's that, if they're found
guilty then treat them as common criminals
Quote:
I mean like right now (based on what I have read) the Supreme Court is saying that AZ doesn't have the right to protect itself from invaders, but the upper government is not protecting it, either.
Well if the SC has declared it, then how can AZ fight to change the law?
only a portion of the law was stricken, the law still has teeth
Quote:
But hey thanks for chiming in. You can be kind of brutal, but you know your shit. S'cool stuff.
I'm not going to mollycoddle a bunch of adults, we're all big boys now,
we can take it... trust me, you've not seen brutal, brutal causes Chernobyl
quality meltdowns
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Icelander]
#16441179 - 06/26/12 05:26 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
How about having the sense to elect better reps
I'm with you, get rid of the incumbents
here's the text of the SCOTUS decision, to abide by the law and the
constitution we need to force the legislaters to lean on law enforcement
and the oval office to start enforcing the laws and stop circumventing the
rule of law
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/26/us/scotus-immigrationlaw.html
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Wallflower
Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 721
Last seen: 8 months, 25 days
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#16441310 - 06/26/12 05:52 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Who should we vote for instead?
I really liked Ron Paul because he is a libertarian. The media made him out to be a psychopath and drove him under most people's radars.
Now at the front is Romney. It seems that this next election for presidency will either be Obama or Romney.
But Romney never breathes a word about such things as the kill list, which allows the president to have U.S. citizens executed secretly and without proper trial.
I also find it interesting that (reportedly) Goldman Sachs backed Obama and now backs Romney.
I find it interesting that W. Bush supported the Patriot Act, and now most republicans blame democrats for the growing police state due to everything the current administration has advanced.
It seems that most people are really stuck in this team-colors game. As far as I can tell, Dems and Reps are the two masks worn by the same monster.
I mean republicans allow tax evasion or major tax cuts for the wealthy elite, in exchange for generous 'donations' while the wealthy elite outsource jobs. The democrats give the wealthy elite big stim-packs n exchange for generous 'donations' while the wealthy elite outsource jobs.
So when I see people arguing about the trickle-down-effect versus stimulus packages, or i.e. the usual dem-vs-rep battle, honestly both sides just look the same to me.
So when people tell me to vote in better people, I certainly throw my chip in. I will be voting for Ron Paul come the election. He is still going to be on the ballot, even though he isn't campaigning around. But will my vote matter? Probably not.
I take a deep breath over it, though. We are a democratic-republic, or republic-democracy, or whatever. So the majority SHOULD rule. Thus if I really value the justice in it all, I can't say that Ron Paul should win if most people vote for Romney. I don't want to be a hypocrite.
But at the same time, I still get the awful feeling that every person who votes for Obama OR Romney is essentially voting for an unconstitutional kill list. I can't help but see them as traitors. And I wonder if a traitor's vote should even count. This is my emotional side of it going, not the left-brain, practical side, of course.
Sigh.
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 6,743
Last seen: 10 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Wallflower]
#16441597 - 06/26/12 07:01 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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a republic is supposed to have safety valves to stop martial law, or drones in the air, or airport staff grabbing your balls.
Then again, didn't they call the soviet empire a republic? And there's the democractic republic of congo, which is a pretty pretentious name for a country.
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Wiccan_Seeker said:
slide down a pole than with your legs spread and using your pussy as a brake. Ask the fire department 
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer
Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 1,791
Last seen: 29 days, 1 hour
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Visionary Tools]
#16441717 - 06/26/12 07:25 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Wallflower said:
I was just thinking to myself the other day, that if I had been an adult and aware when Ruby Ridge happened, I would have been absolutely freaking out about it. If I had known about Waco, same thing. And yet still to this day, I have never met someone online or in person who has brought either of those events up.
Like I said, you're probably just living in the wrong part of the country. Here's a recent documentary about Waco:
An older one about Ruby Ridge:
>
And the website of a recent documentary that argues for a conspiracy around the OK City bombings that's becoming a big deal around where I'm at and is winning some awards:
http://www.anoblelie.com/
An interesting fact: the religious groups involved at Ruby Ridge and Waco were splinters off of, at their base, the Mormon Church. I bet someone out there's got some theory connecting Romney to the whole thing.
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Wallflower
Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 721
Last seen: 8 months, 25 days
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#16441771 - 06/26/12 07:36 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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I grew up in a rural part of the Midwest without the internet through most of my teenage years, and I'm only 24 presently.
So I did wonder if maybe I had just been missing out on all the rage over these things.
Sometimes being young is an interesting thing.
I found about Ruby Ridge and Waco just two years ago. And I couldn't believe all the fuss about 9/11 when we had had those events in recent history.
I started going around asking people what they thought about Waco and Ruby Ridge, and I couldn't find ONE person with an opinion about it.
All I could think was you people are upset because you think 9/11 might have been an inside job, but you don't have an opinion on the fact that government GASSED AND MURDERED CHILDREN or SHOT AN INNOCENT PERSON HOLDING A BABY?
Thus I just started brooding about what is so special about 9/11 that has people all riled about it, but not something like those two events.
So thanks, it's good to know there are actually a lot of people out there who are concerned about those things.
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer
Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 1,791
Last seen: 29 days, 1 hour
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Wallflower]
#16441794 - 06/26/12 07:41 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Yup, there are people who care, you're in good company. Unfortunately, not many of those have the influence to prevent these sorts of things from happening again...
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Wallflower]
#16442203 - 06/26/12 09:00 PM (10 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
a republic is supposed to have safety valves to stop martial law, or drones in the air, or airport staff grabbing your balls.
really eanglishman? what would those safety valves be?
Quote:
Wallflower said:
Who should we vote for instead?
whom ever you want, I'm not about to tell you who to vote for, I will aid
you in how to vote, look at the candidates, look at their voting records on
the issues, look at what they've voted to pass in both chambers of congress
for your district, is it a candidate that's never been in politics, that's
a couple point in his favor already, he doesnt know how to cherk the system
so it's good to take advantage of that. talk to the candidates and see what
they have to say, film the conversation, ask them the questions you want
answers to and done settle for campaign rhetoric, ask very specific
questions that will require a very specific answer such as on marijuana
reform/legalization "do you support or oppose the legalization of marijuana
and why do you support or oppose it?"
Quote:
I really liked Ron Paul because he is a libertarian. The media made him out to be a psychopath and drove him under most people's radars.
the media isnt entirely incorrect, I like ron paul because he is what the
media portrays him as, because he's not mitt romney and not barack obama
or george bush. he's not what the republican party or the media want
Quote:
I also find it interesting that (reportedly) Goldman Sachs backed Obama and now backs Romney.
all these companies back both parties, they donate to any and all viable
candidates but it doesnt matter if you or I vote for Obomney, the electoral
college is the one that shall put whom ever they choose into office which
still means little because the president doesnt write or pass the laws and
congress can bypass the president when he vetoes a bill with a 2/3 majority
Quote:
I find it interesting that W. Bush supported the Patriot Act, and now most republicans blame democrats for the growing police state due to everything the current administration has advanced.
you're seeing things that you're told to see, the militarization of the
police has more to do with the war on drugs than anything else, the patriot
act doesnt infringe on your rights, it doesnt strip you of any, I oppose
the patriot act but that's simply because I oppose the passage of redundant
laws in order to try and convince people that they're on capital hill doing
some work
Quote:
I mean republicans allow tax evasion or major tax cuts for the wealthy elite, in exchange for generous 'donations' while the wealthy elite outsource jobs. The democrats give the wealthy elite big stim-packs n exchange for generous 'donations' while the wealthy elite outsource jobs.
Obama's cabinet, most are/were tax evaders, the tax cuts, more in taxes
were paid in with the tax cuts in place, the wealthy elite outsourcing
jobs, well that's a whole new can of worms and it started in congress and
with foreign trade agreements in addition to US protectorates and
territories such as American Samoa and Saipan, these places can get away
with not following US laws regarding minimum wage and working conditions,
produce their products and ship them to the US without paying duties and
still call it an american product. for more than a decade many of the
american made products in the US were made in Saipan by chinese, thai and
malasian workers then shipped back as american products, once a few more
trade agreements were made it was profitable to move the factories to
malasia and china it left all those workers in the street, most turning to
prostitution which is close to all that's left as income and tourism for
the island
Quote:
So when I see people arguing about the trickle-down-effect versus stimulus packages, or i.e. the usual dem-vs-rep battle, honestly both sides just look the same to me.
trickle down economics worked, more millionaires were made under Reagan's
policies than at any other time in history, those people hired other and
put people back into jobs the stimulus shit, it didnt work because obama
has been sitting on the money, forcing companies that didnt want it to take
some and then restricted their abilities to repay. what put us here in the
first place? a few republican and democrat policies
Quote:
So when people tell me to vote in better people, I certainly throw my chip in. I will be voting for Ron Paul come the election. He is still going to be on the ballot, even though he isn't campaigning around. But will my vote matter? Probably not.
vote ron paul, it wont matter, what matters is who you vote for in the
congressional elections so fuck who ever it is running for president, pay
attention to the ones that make the laws, the big popularity contest is
just there to distract you
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Visionary Tools
I <3 Thomas Jefferson
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 6,743
Last seen: 10 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: sonamdrukpa]
#16445331 - 06/27/12 03:16 PM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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I first heard of waco from Bill Hicks.
Sometimes just not shutting up is what makes the difference.
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Wiccan_Seeker said:
slide down a pole than with your legs spread and using your pussy as a brake. Ask the fire department
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sonamdrukpa
Wayfarer
Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 1,791
Last seen: 29 days, 1 hour
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Re: Is the debate over 9/11 a psychological snap? [Re: Visionary Tools]
#16445934 - 06/27/12 05:17 PM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Visionary Tools said:
Sometimes just not shutting up is what makes the difference.
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