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 Ellis Dee
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,527
Loc: Knockturn Alley
Last seen: 13 minutes, 3 seconds
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 The HIV leads to AIDS lie ----> I was wrong 
#16418662 - 06/22/12 04:44 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Having examined all the available evidence that has been presented to me over the course of this discussion I believe that HIV does indeed lead to AIDS. While I still question some of the methodologies related to statistical gathering of this disease I do believe that HIV will lead to the development of AIDS. I was wrong. I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread and who discussed it in an authentic and thoughtful manner especially jwist. I'll leave the original post below for posterity, anyone who wants to read through the thread should do so. For all the billions spent on research it is conclusive that HIV leads to AIDS but are still a lot of unanswered questions.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/hiv-aids-fact-or-fraud/
The CD4T cells are not killed by HIV. It is drug use and the fast track lifestyle that is immunosuppressant. 10-20% of people with AIDS do not have HIV but are excluded from AIDS statistics. To summarize...
HIV obviously fails EVERY "cause and effect" test you can possibly examine it under to try and demonstrate HIV as the cause of AIDS.
1.The Patient is ANTIBODY IMMUNE (no rampant viral particle increase compared to any other viral disease - NO active virus)
2. Retroviruses do not kill host cells, or they would kill themselves as well. -- years of study and common sense prove this.
3. There is not enough active virus to kill cells even if they did. This wold be like killing the Chinese army at three soldiers a day.
4. Viruses don't take 25 years to cause a disease, the life span of "HIV infection is about three weeks.
5. Farr's Law again.. HIV Can NOT be new.
6. HIV has no AIDS causing genes and is exactly like all other harmless retroviruses.
7. It does not work evenly in US women or in people outside of risk groups, all of which have reasons to explain why they are sick without HIV.
8. It does not work the same way with drug addicts, gay men, or people living in dire poverty. AIDS is totally different in every continent in the world, due to different causes in each.
9. People without HIV in these risk groups get the SAME diseases (all 29 of them are old and existed for years before "AIDS)
10 The Vast majority of people (about 95% worldwide) with "HIV infection" are healthy not sick. WHO and UNAIDS have even admitted that their "projections were wrong and misguided"
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Edited by Ellis Dee (06/30/12 02:57 PM)
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 Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,851
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16418917 - 06/22/12 06:39 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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There you go again relying on propaganda documentaries...
You really should look more closely into this...You might learn something.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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Ellis Dee
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,527
Loc: Knockturn Alley
Last seen: 13 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Enlil]
#16418981 - 06/22/12 07:26 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Did you watch it? What do you think of the AZT angle?
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,851
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16418996 - 06/22/12 07:32 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Years ago I watched it...I don't remember that particular argument...
But I do know that people have died from aids without ever getting AZT...
According to denialist arguments, the cause must be present in every case...so...that would also rule out AZT as the cause...
Duesberg is not a stupid man, but he's completely ignoring a mountain of evidence that supports the hypothesis that HIV causes aids.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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Ellis Dee
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,527
Loc: Knockturn Alley
Last seen: 13 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Enlil]
#16419007 - 06/22/12 07:35 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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A lot of people have also died of AIDS without ever having HIV.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,669
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck 
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16419087 - 06/22/12 08:14 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rail_Gun said:
A lot of people have also died of AIDS without ever having HIV.
really? who?
where's the documented case files with the american journal of medicine?
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there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Ellis Dee
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,527
Loc: Knockturn Alley
Last seen: 13 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Prisoner#1]
#16419104 - 06/22/12 08:21 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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AIDS is defined as either a CD4+ T cell numbers below 200 cells per µL or is based on the occurrence of specific diseases. Lots of people meet this definition without ever having HIV. They are excluded from official statistics since the late 80's when also having HIV was added to the definition.
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cacharstar
Strange is good...
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 3,847
Loc: The West Coast
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16419108 - 06/22/12 08:23 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,851
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16419112 - 06/22/12 08:25 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rail_Gun said:
A lot of people have also died of AIDS without ever having HIV.
Not true.
There have been some who have had ICL...and denialists will tell you that ICL is just another name for aids without HIV...assuming this is true:
"In 1993, a CDC task force published the results of an exhaustive survey of ICL in the USA. They had reviewed 230,179 AIDS-like cases reported since 1983 and identified 47 patients with ICL (plus 127 uncertain cases). All of the other people with AIDS who had received an HIV test produced a positive result"
http://www.avert.org/hiv-causes-aids.htm
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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Ellis Dee
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,527
Loc: Knockturn Alley
Last seen: 13 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Enlil]
#16419129 - 06/22/12 08:38 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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No one is denying there is a correlation . But correlation does not equal causation. The documentary was eye opening. I may not be qualified to argue the points and I am not entirely convinced myself. However I find it especially interesting how the woman in the documentary was wrongly diagnosed with HIV, given AZT and then died from AZT poisoning showing all the typical symptoms of AIDS. I think that if it were not for the billions being reaped by the medical and pharmacological industries that these researchers could at least get grants to prove their hypothesis one way or the other.
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DocShroom
Stranger
Registered: 06/03/12
Posts: 455
Last seen: 11 months, 7 days
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Enlil]
#16419140 - 06/22/12 08:45 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Can someone please post a study in the last 2 years? Science and medicine have came along way since 1993 so some conspiracy theorist documentary should not be used to make a bold claim like "the HIV causes aids lie". That's like watching. Michael Moore documentary and then saying I know EVERYTHING about 9/11... You have to see both sides of the story.
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,851
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16419142 - 06/22/12 08:46 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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No one is claiming that correlation equals causation..
But you'd have to agree that one anecdotal story of a woman who died of azt poisoning doesn't either...
Check out this site and see if it clears anything up for you.
http://www.aidstruth.org/denialism/myths
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,669
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16419222 - 06/22/12 09:21 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rail_Gun said:
AIDS is defined as either a CD4+ T cell numbers below 200 cells per µL or is based on the occurrence of specific diseases. Lots of people meet this definition without ever having HIV. They are excluded from official statistics since the late 80's when also having HIV was added to the definition.
most of the world meets this description at some point in their life but
quickly recover from infections and live happy normal lives and are rarely
ever sick again
this still doesnt prove anything that you're claiming and it certainly doesnt
show me any cases where someone died of AIDS without having HIV
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Ellis Dee
wizard
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 9,527
Loc: Knockturn Alley
Last seen: 13 minutes, 3 seconds
|
Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Prisoner#1]
#16419227 - 06/22/12 09:26 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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That is the point of the documentary. There are over 30 diseases people die of that they call HIV related. When people die from those diseases without also having HIV infection even when they also meet the AIDS T cell criteria they classify it as a death from that old disease instead of properly classifying it as an AIDS death. It's a false classification based on an unproven correlation is the whole point of the documentary. If the people doing the documentary were not being shunned by the establishment they could fund and do studies to prove one way or the other what the truth is. The proper double blind studies have never been conducted.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,669
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16419276 - 06/22/12 09:51 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rail_Gun said:
That is the point of the documentary.
dont rely on a video to make your argument
Quote:
There are over 30 diseases people die of that they call HIV related.
so they dont actually die of AIDS but instead things like tuberculosis and pneumonia
Quote:
When people die from those diseases without also having HIV infection even when they also meet the AIDS T cell criteria they classify it as a death
people die from all kinds of diseases every day with out ever having a
suppressed immune system prior to infection, TB kills about 10% of the
people that catch it but like all diseases the body tries fighting is and
it in fact does suppressed the immune system in the process. when
recovering from a cold, you have an 'immunodeficiency' whether it be CD4,
CD8 or any other antigen specific deficiency
Quote:
It's a false classification based on an unproven correlation is the whole point of the documentary.
then maybe you should actually prove that instead of tellig us we need to
watch the pike of crap you call a documentary because that film really
doesnt prove the point
--------------------
there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
|
Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,851
|
Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Prisoner#1]
#16419352 - 06/22/12 10:27 AM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
so they dont actually die of AIDS but instead things like tuberculosis and pneumonia
Nobody actually dies from aids...aids itself isn't lethal...the diseases that aids opens the door for are what kills people.
--------------------
Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 4 months, 3 days
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Enlil]
#16419783 - 06/22/12 12:18 PM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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I don't understand the point of this thread
HIV leads to AIDS...is a lie?
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
   
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Enlil
LIL-9000
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 11,851
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: the bizzle]
#16419811 - 06/22/12 12:25 PM (11 months, 21 days ago) |
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You've guessed it perfectly...That is the OP's assertion.
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Ask a defense attorney
Fuck the Amish
Ellis Dee said, "And those kids in CT deserved to die and I'm glad they're dead. I am glad that the survivors will have to "live with it" too. hahaha"
Listerine said, "i want genocide for most of africa"
|
cacharstar
Strange is good...
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 3,847
Loc: The West Coast
|
Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Ellis Dee]
#16420758 - 06/22/12 04:20 PM (11 months, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rail_Gun said:
That is the point of the documentary. There are over 30 diseases people die of that they call HIV related. When people die from those diseases without also having HIV infection even when they also meet the AIDS T cell criteria they classify it as a death from that old disease instead of properly classifying it as an AIDS death. It's a false classification based on an unproven correlation is the whole point of the documentary. If the people doing the documentary were not being shunned by the establishment they could fund and do studies to prove one way or the other what the truth is. The proper double blind studies have never been conducted.
No one dies of aids, they die of the complications due to aids like a fungal infection or the common cold. I think you need to research how HIV attacks your T cells and uses them to spread causing a lowered immune response and ultimately death from another rare and usually non life threatening illness.
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cacharstar
Strange is good...
Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 3,847
Loc: The West Coast
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Re: The HIV leads to AIDS lie [Re: Prisoner#1]
#16420762 - 06/22/12 04:21 PM (11 months, 20 days ago) |
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Shit I guess you kinda said the same thing Oh well.
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